What is the deal with the two different patches. I completed GES, IS-100, and CAP driver's license. Is that enough or should I do something else. Anyway, who came up with the one with the plane as well as the one with the dog?
You need an actual qualification.
Like a technician qualification?
MSA,UDF, GTM, MS, MO, etc.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/4xweii8h1/101card.jpg)
Thanks. I've also found a list of the qualifications needed under CAPR 60-3 paragraph 2-3(f).
The one with Pluto looks like USAF FAC patch out of the Vietnam era.
Quote from: culpeper on August 21, 2018, 12:38:07 PM
Thanks. I've also found a list of the qualifications needed under CAPR 60-3 paragraph 2-3(f).
The one with Pluto looks like USAF FAC patch out of the Vietnam era.
It dates from the 50's.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2018, 12:29:29 PM
MSA,UDF, GTM, MS, MO, etc.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/4xweii8h1/101card.jpg)
How did you become a flight release officer without being an MO or pilot?
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on August 21, 2018, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2018, 12:29:29 PM
MSA,UDF, GTM, MS, MO, etc.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/4xweii8h1/101card.jpg)
How did you become a flight release officer without being an MO or pilot?
He's a Mission Scanner.
You need to be a pilot or air crew (CAPR 70-1, 4.5.1.1.)
Thank you, my original appointment was under the previous version of 60-1
which called out Unit CCs with flight activity in their squadron as eligible to
be FROs, was Wing DOS for 2.5 years, and a PSC (though I'm not current with that).
70-1:
"4.5.1.1. FROs must have flying experience either as a pilot or as an aircrew member. Pilot or
aircrew experience should preferably be within CAP, but external experience is acceptable. FROs do not
have to be current to fly within CAP. Additional IC guidance can be found in paragraph 9.10.2.5. In order
to be an FRO, personnel must also:"
60-1:
"4-5. Flight Release Officer Qualifications. Individuals designated as a FRO must meet the following minimum requirements:
a. Possess a sound knowledge of the CAP flight management program and flight release procedures.
b. Complete the National CAP FRO training program.
c. Satisfy one of the following criteria:
(1) Qualified incident commander, or
(2) Unit commander of a unit with CAP flight activity, or
(3) An experienced CAP pilot with a private or higher pilot certificate (need not be current)."
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on August 21, 2018, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on August 21, 2018, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2018, 12:29:29 PM
MSA,UDF, GTM, MS, MO, etc.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/4xweii8h1/101card.jpg)
How did you become a flight release officer without being an MO or pilot?
He's a Mission Scanner.
You need to be a pilot or air crew (CAPR 70-1, 4.5.1.1.)
Actually I just looked at the regulation, and it doesn't even require aircrew. You can become an FRO without ever having touched an aircraft, ever.
I keep running in to people who think being an MO with 60+ hours and a student pilot just shy of Solo isn't enough.
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on August 22, 2018, 04:38:32 PM
Actually I just looked at the regulation, and it doesn't even require aircrew. You can become an FRO without ever having touched an aircraft, ever.
The current requirements are quoted above and require the member to have been a Pilot or Aircrew,
it doesn't have to be as a member or in a CAP plane, but you do need a/c experience.
I know some wings artificially limit the number of FROs for "reasons", but an MO certainly meets at least the minimums.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 22, 2018, 05:11:22 PM
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on August 22, 2018, 04:38:32 PM
Actually I just looked at the regulation, and it doesn't even require aircrew. You can become an FRO without ever having touched an aircraft, ever.
The current requirements are quoted above and require the member to have been a Pilot or Aircrew,
it doesn't have to be as a member or in a CAP plane, but you do need a/c experience.
I know some wings artificially limit the number of FROs for "reasons", but an MO certainly meets at least the minimums.
In Florida Wing we have to limit the number of FRO's due to the limitations of how many FRO's can be assigned to missions in WIMRS. For wing missions in large wings, you can end up hitting that limit (I believe it's 50) very quickly.
Quote from: DocJekyll on August 22, 2018, 05:41:58 PM
In Florida Wing we have to limit the number of FRO's due to the limitations of how many FRO's can be assigned to missions in WIMRS.
Assigned where? In the sorties themselves?
I'm currently starting the Administration specialty track. I've added Mission Staff Assistant to that. The latter with GES will allow to request the patch in eServices. In fact, I've been so busy getting the initial self-study stuff done and getting familiar with personnel that I haven't even obtained any sort of uniform yet. So yes, you can earn the patch without ever climbing into a Cessna. You can also take the CERT course if it is offered in your area.
Quote from: PHall on August 21, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
Quote from: culpeper on August 21, 2018, 12:38:07 PM
Thanks. I've also found a list of the qualifications needed under CAPR 60-3 paragraph 2-3(f).
The one with Pluto looks like USAF FAC patch out of the Vietnam era.
It dates from the 50's.
According to Civil Air Patrol Uniforms Since 1941, 7th Edition, it dates back to 1961. The T-6 patch dates to 1966.
Quote from: LSThiker on August 23, 2018, 02:28:48 PM
Quote from: PHall on August 21, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
Quote from: culpeper on August 21, 2018, 12:38:07 PM
Thanks. I've also found a list of the qualifications needed under CAPR 60-3 paragraph 2-3(f).
The one with Pluto looks like USAF FAC patch out of the Vietnam era.
It dates from the 50's.
According to Civil Air Patrol Uniforms Since 1941, 7th Edition, it dates back to 1961. The T-6 patch dates to 1966.
*T-34.
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on August 23, 2018, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on August 23, 2018, 02:28:48 PM
Quote from: PHall on August 21, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
Quote from: culpeper on August 21, 2018, 12:38:07 PM
Thanks. I've also found a list of the qualifications needed under CAPR 60-3 paragraph 2-3(f).
The one with Pluto looks like USAF FAC patch out of the Vietnam era.
It dates from the 50's.
According to Civil Air Patrol Uniforms Since 1941, 7th Edition, it dates back to 1961. The T-6 patch dates to 1966.
*T-34.
Concur. T-34A, to be even more pedantic. B and C model (Turbo Mentors) were USN.
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on August 23, 2018, 03:39:06 PM
*T-34.
Yes, thank you. Do not know why I was thinking T-6.
I can't blame you, LST!
The original T-6/SNJ trained thousands in service of the defense of freedom, and the current T-6 Texan II is, in the words of one of the original test team pilots I worked with, "a modern day P-51 with an ejection seat". And don't forget the great movies ion which the original T-6 stood in for a range of Japanese combat aircraft!
Cheers
Spam
(former JPATS/T-6 cockpit engineer/test team member)
Quote from: Eclipse on August 22, 2018, 07:40:02 PM
Quote from: DocJekyll on August 22, 2018, 05:41:58 PM
In Florida Wing we have to limit the number of FRO's due to the limitations of how many FRO's can be assigned to missions in WIMRS.
Assigned where? In the sorties themselves?
I'd still like to know where these FROs are "assigned".
FROs are "appointed" in eservices, and then they are FROs wherever they go
without Wing boundaries, just like every other ES qual.
Where does this limitation in WMIRS pop up?
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2018, 05:29:22 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 22, 2018, 07:40:02 PM
Quote from: DocJekyll on August 22, 2018, 05:41:58 PM
In Florida Wing we have to limit the number of FRO's due to the limitations of how many FRO's can be assigned to missions in WIMRS.
Assigned where? In the sorties themselves?
I'd still like to know where these FROs are "assigned".
FROs are "appointed" in eservices, and then they are FROs wherever they go
without Wing boundaries, just like every other ES qual.
Where does this limitation in WMIRS pop up?
Sorry Eclipse, I didn't see the question!
The WIMRS limitations really only affects 3 wings. WIMRS only allows 55 FROs on a single mission (I double checked since I believed it to be 50). For O-flight and annual B missions, or Wing Misc missions particularly in those 3 wings, it can add up quickly especially when some FRO's may also be pilots on those missions.
For example, the current FLWG O-flight mission number currently has 548 members signed in. Some wings don't even have that many people in them! Now not all of them are FRO's. After a quick reference on the mission and the master list, there are 44 currently signed in. That leaves us 11. Now lets say I'm not signed in, but I decided to sign in as a TMP (and I am an FRO for the wing). That brings it to 45 and 10 more slots.
Most wings don't have that issue, so in essence, you are correct. Once you're an appointed FRO you can be an FRO anywhere and on any mission, but within the logistical boundaries of those wings, they limit and look at everyone for what is needed vs what the current list is.
It used to be that the IC could select which FRO's he/she wanted on their mission, but now (at least in my wing) there is a master list that is pulled from. If we want to add an FRO, we have to remove someone who currently has it, so we look at who hasn't released any sorties in a while and cut where we need. This helps when we have someone come up and start working on AOBD or etc. As of right now there are 3392 members in FLWG. But for something like IN or ILWG that has far fewer people, even the annual missions wouldn't max out the FRO limit because there just isn't that much manpower. I think INWG has maybe 8-9 aircraft?
Add in SFRO's and it becomes even more important.