ppl instructor wanted

Started by mon876, September 15, 2011, 09:47:06 PM

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mon876

 I need a  CAP instructor to begin my flight training through the civil air patrol. i live in tampa bay, florida. im not sure if the pilots are paid for it, but im pretty sure they are. i am a cadet and really want to get my pilots license before im 18, because i want to go into the navy. email me at bentc123@gmail.com.

Eclipse

Quote from: mon876 on September 15, 2011, 09:47:06 PM
I need a  CAP instructor to begin my flight training through the civil air patrol. i live in tampa bay, florida. im not sure if the pilots are paid for it, but im pretty sure they are. i am a cadet and really want to get my pilots license before im 18, because i want to go into the navy. email me at bentc123@gmail.com.

They are not.

Absent a scholarship or flight academy, there is no program within CAP to pay for cadets to learn to fly.
Being in CAP will grant you access to pilots and CFI's who may be benevolent to your needs and help by providing time
at a lower cost, etc., but you will need to make those connections yourself, locally.

You should start at your home unit, and work your way out from there with your CC or CD's assistance.

Should you decide to attend a flight academy, you'll need to start looking at them now, as applications will be due at the end of the year for most NCSA's.  Johnson flight academy in ILWG is a great place to get flight training and is quite economical.  It is not an NCSA, but applications are processed
through the same system.



"That Others May Zoom"

mon876

I talked to my capt and he said to find a pilot that is certified to train and then CAP will provide the plane, all i need to pay for is the fuel.

JeffDG

I would look at nearby units:
http://cap.findlocation.com/results.aspx?page=default

First up, I see two Senior Squadrons, most likely to be populated with lots of pilots and CFIs in the area.

coudano

#4
if you are willing/able to drive to zephyrhills, check out the tampa bay soaring society,
cap flies gliders out of there as well

maybe a cap pilot in that area also,


good stuff

Eclipse

Quote from: mon876 on September 15, 2011, 10:32:09 PM
I talked to my capt and he said to find a pilot that is certified to train and then CAP will provide the plane, all i need to pay for is the fuel.

If your wing is either funding or waiving the rental time for the aircraft, that's a great deal, just be aware you can expect to pay $30 to 40 per hour
for the fuel. 

"Finding a pilot" sounds great on paper, but bear in mind this person needs to be not just a pilot, but a Certified Flight Instructor, and needs to be
one who is willing to train you for free.  Times are tight for flight schools, and they don't always look favorably on their instructors giving away their bread and butter for free.  If you can't find a CAP CFI to give you training free, perhaps you can negotiate a lower rate, etc.  It never hurts to ask.

Expect to spend 35-50+ hours in your training flights, so assuming you are able to find a benevolent CAP CFI, expect to spend $1000-2200+ for fuel
only.  Twice that if you can't use the CAP plane(s).  And bear in mind that even if you have a pilot and the funds, the planes are not always
available on an easy schedule.  You probably have 20-30 other pilots vying for proficiency time, not to mention missions, O-Rides, and maintenance issues.  That also assumes there's a suitable 172 in your area to start with.

Do you have somewhere lined up to do your ground school training?  Learning to be a pilot is not the same as an O-Ride.  You will need
25-40 hours of ground instruction over a 10-12 week period (varies with the school).  Expect to pay $500-1000 for the ground instruction
in addition to your flight hours.

You will also need to budget money for your solo flights as you can't solo in a CAP aircraft - at a minimum you will have to full-rent a plane
for those check rides, including fuel.

So on the conservative side, with a "free" CAP pilot and a gas-only aircraft, you're looking at $2000-4000 conservatively, and probably closer to $5000
once it's all wrapped up.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just get you to understand the financial commitment and to see why the flight academies and scholarships are
such an amazing benefit for cadets.

In most cases you can complete the entire ground school and a huge chunk of flight training in a single week for less than $1000, including
meals and lodging.  In rare cases. cadets are even able to pre-solo at the end of the week.

"That Others May Zoom"

coudano

Quoteyou can't solo in a CAP aircraft

Have the rules changed recently?  I don't think this is true...

QuoteIn rare cases. cadets are even able to pre-solo at the end of the week.

I think plenty of cadets full solo at NFA-P,

Eclipse

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong today.

I was under the impression the flight academies were different in that respect, but that normally a cadet can pre-solo, but the final ride has to be
done in a non-CAP airplane.

"That Others May Zoom"

Extremepredjudice

Not that I am an expert/know a lot about this subject, but my squadron's c/cc got his glider liscense through CAP and CAP gliders, and he soloes on CAP gliders,(before he got his license.) when they are available.
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

coudano

Cadets are restricted from soloing gliders, on their first attendance at GFA
(unless they have prior training before arriving at GFA)

However that restriction is not in place at PFA.
I am just about 99% certain that the CFI at my squadron who takes the plane at our squadron to PFA-NE, solo's the cadets that he instructs there (as long as they are ready)

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on September 16, 2011, 12:31:13 AM
Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong today.

I was under the impression the flight academies were different in that respect, but that normally a cadet can pre-solo, but the final ride has to be
done in a non-CAP airplane.
Nope, you can solo and take your checkride in the CAP plane.

Unlike CFIs, DPEs can charge

Eclipse

You've got to be a cadet under 18 to receive instruction, but then you have to be over 18 to get a Form 5, right?

"That Others May Zoom"

coudano

CAPR 60-1

Any cadet may receive instruction, solo, and do a form 5 checkride in CAP aircraft.
There is no age limit on instruction for cadets,
and there is no minimum age to do a form 5

There are FAA rules of course, without looking I do believe you have to be 16 to solo ASEL, and 17 to get the private pilot certificate.  (I think it's 14 years old to solo for gliders and 16 to get the PPL)

**Getting the PPL in gliders is a good option, and then you can just add ASEL as an add-on.  Perhaps cheaper, and certainly available at a younger age.


CAP members must, however, be 18 years old to be mission aircrew qualified (MS, MO, MP)
However you can be form 5, and fly CAP planes younger (i've had a cadet in my squadron who did so)(she is now on the flight team at the USAFA hehhh)

JeffDG

Quote from: coudano on September 16, 2011, 01:20:17 AM
CAPR 60-1

Any cadet may receive instruction, solo, and do a form 5 checkride in CAP aircraft.
There is no age limit on instruction for cadets,
and there is no minimum age to do a form 5

There are FAA rules of course, without looking I do believe you have to be 16 to solo ASEL, and 17 to get the private pilot certificate.  (I think it's 14 years old to solo for gliders and 16 to get the PPL)

**Getting the PPL in gliders is a good option, and then you can just add ASEL as an add-on.  Perhaps cheaper, and certainly available at a younger age.


CAP members must, however, be 18 years old to be mission aircrew qualified (MS, MO, MP)
However you can be form 5, and fly CAP planes younger (i've had a cadet in my squadron who did so)(she is now on the flight team at the USAFA hehhh)
And, if he's willing, the DPE can sign off your Form 5 if your checkride covers all the elements of the Form 5, otherwise you'd need to do a CAPF5 with a CAP check pilot afterwards.

By the same token, a DPE can sign off a CAPF5 granting instrument privileges if you obtain your Instrument rating.

EMT-83

We have a couple of cadets in our squadron doing primary flight instruction, and several more in the Wing. If you are really serious about getting your ticket, it can be a great deal.

If you can find an instructor, do a realistic assessment of the costs. There most likely will be a maintenance fee in addition to the fuel charge – a dry rate plus fuel, or a wet rate. You might even get lucky and find a CFI willing to conduct a ground school.

Eclipse

A couple of years ago we had a CFI do a full ground school on an alternate night for anyone who wanted to attend, I think about 10 people including at least one cadet completed it.  Free ground school is interesting even for non-pilots, especially if you are aircrew.

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

A Q for the OP - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

DakRadz

Quote from: SarDragon on September 16, 2011, 04:30:10 AM
A Q for the OP - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?

Complete hearsay, but viewed from my perspective, he is saying he wants to get his PPL, through CAP as a cadet, before he turns 18- at that point he joins the Navy and is no longer a cadet (and won't have time for getting a PPL for a long time).

But I could be completely wrong here.

SarDragon

Quote from: DakRadz on September 16, 2011, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 16, 2011, 04:30:10 AM
A Q for the OP - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?

Complete hearsay, but viewed from my perspective, he is saying he wants to get his PPL, through CAP as a cadet, before he turns 18- at that point he joins the Navy and is no longer a cadet (and won't have time for getting a PPL for a long time).

But I could be completely wrong here.

You are. I want his/her answer, not anyone else's.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

simon

mon876,

My advice to you is to look outside CAP to obtain your PPL.

I wrote a long spiel on why, but decided to retract it. It is difficult to pack one's flying experiences, inside and outside CAP, into a blog entry.

Happy to take an IM.

Cheers

md

Quote from: Eclipse on September 16, 2011, 12:59:22 AM
You've got to be a cadet under 18 to receive instruction

Cadets can train in anything, SMs can train toward PPL or anything else in gliders (and maybe balloons? anyone know?), and MPs (or SMs with PPLs and the right permission) can get any further ratings or licenses in airplanes.



Quote from: mon876 on September 15, 2011, 09:47:06 PM
I need a  CAP instructor to begin my flight training through the civil air patrol.

I'm with everybody else - much easier to do it outside CAP. Good luck!

Flying Pig

Cadet,

I think you need to sit down with your chain of command and discuss your needs and wants.  I would doubt you are going to find a CAP CFI willing to donate all of their time to you.  And I find it HIGHLY unlikely that CAP is going to let you use their plane for upwards of 50-60 flight hours by just paying for gas. 



coudano

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 16, 2011, 07:37:32 PM
Cadet,

I think you need to sit down with your chain of command and discuss your needs and wants.  I would doubt you are going to find a CAP CFI willing to donate all of their time to you.  And I find it HIGHLY unlikely that CAP is going to let you use their plane for upwards of 50-60 flight hours by just paying for gas.

It just depends...
we have a CFI at my squadron who has done this for cadets multiple times over the years.

and I'm not aware of a CAP plane that has sooooo many hours on it that they need to fly it less (hey cool it, guys)

it's not impossible, you just have to see what's available locally

Short Field

Most of us don't get to fly CAP aircraft by just paying for gas.  Some wings have discounted flying hours available but they tend to be limited.   
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640

EMT-83

Even with MX costs, it still has to be cheaper than renting that aging 172 from the FBO.

JeffDG

Quote from: EMT-83 on September 16, 2011, 09:56:57 PM
Even with MX costs, it still has to be cheaper than renting that aging 172 from the FBO.
I know our wet rate is well below what FBOs charge.

mon876

Quote from: DakRadz on September 16, 2011, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 16, 2011, 04:30:10 AM
A Q for the OP - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?

Complete hearsay, but viewed from my perspective, he is saying he wants to get his PPL, through CAP as a cadet, before he turns 18- at that point he joins the Navy and is no longer a cadet (and won't have time for getting a PPL for a long time).

But I could be completely wrong here.
you are completly correct. i wont havemuch time after im 18 because of college and work. also my parent are paying for it now.

spaatzmom

When my son took flight lessons via CAP out of Clearwater- St. Pete, the plane was $35/ hour plus av gas.  This was back in 2005-06 time frame.  It took quite a while to sign on a pilot for the lessons then even going through his commander.  Good luck.

SarDragon

Quote from: mon876 on September 16, 2011, 11:15:48 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on September 16, 2011, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 16, 2011, 04:30:10 AM
A Q for the OP - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?

Complete hearsay, but viewed from my perspective, he is saying he wants to get his PPL, through CAP as a cadet, before he turns 18- at that point he joins the Navy and is no longer a cadet (and won't have time for getting a PPL for a long time).

But I could be completely wrong here.
you are completly correct. i wont havemuch time after im 18 because of college and work. also my parent are paying for it now.

Again - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Spaceman3750

Quote from: SarDragon on September 17, 2011, 07:42:14 AM
Quote from: mon876 on September 16, 2011, 11:15:48 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on September 16, 2011, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 16, 2011, 04:30:10 AM
A Q for the OP - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?

Complete hearsay, but viewed from my perspective, he is saying he wants to get his PPL, through CAP as a cadet, before he turns 18- at that point he joins the Navy and is no longer a cadet (and won't have time for getting a PPL for a long time).

But I could be completely wrong here.
you are completly correct. i wont havemuch time after im 18 because of college and work. also my parent are paying for it now.

Again - what difference will it make, going into the Navy, whether you have your PPL or not?

Well, if he's applying for a rated slot at OCS, a PPL gets you points here and there.

But, that's at least 4 years away.

SarDragon

Guys, I'm looking for an answer from the OP, not guesses from the rest of the participants. What's so hard about that?  >:(
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

a2capt

Quote from: SarDragon on September 17, 2011, 09:02:20 AMGuys, I'm looking for an answer from the OP, not guesses from the rest of the participants. What's so hard about that?  >:(
Then ignore them. Move along. These are not the replies you are looking for.  It's a forum. People post in forums. Same way you post your opinion on peoples threads. Same way you throw your tick-tock thing around just because you feel the thread is done, when many have outlived your opinionated clock, too.

simon

#32
mon876, notwithstanding my earlier comment, so far I believe Eclipse listed the important points that you need to know.

1. You will need prior approval from your squadron commander. They may even wish to clear it at a higher level. Best to get everyone on board early.

2. You will need to find an qualified and current CAP CFI that is willing to take you all the way through your training for nothing. Good luck. You will need it. I don't say this in a critical way. I simply mean if you can find a CFI, you are indeed lucky.

Now, assuming you have those two things, you just need to get everything else that Eclipse pointed out. The above two will be the hardest. Oh yeah, and a plane you can use.

You are going to have to pay for the engine reserve (I don't know what this is on a Florida Wing 172. I only know it is $37 per hobbs hour on a California 182). Maybe it is $25? But you will HAVE to pay for this. Everybody does. These planes don't maintain themselves.

Then there is the gas of course.

In the end, you will probably save $30-$50 an hour over an old FBO 172. Plus you will save on flight instruction of course. Another, say, $50 an hour.

The costs are the sole benefit you will get from getting your private through CAP. And yes, those could be substantial savings. I am guessing these days it is probably $12,000 all up to get a private pilot's certificate in a 172 in 70 hours. Maybe you can do it in 60 hours. Maybe it's $10k. People argue over these things but there are lots of little extras here and there - Headset, charts, medical, DPE ride etc. $10k is a lot of money for someone under 18 (For some of us over 18 as well).

So perhaps you can reduce this by $2500 by doing it through CAP. The next biggest issue, if you can get over (1) and (2), is getting your benevolent instructor to give you lessons on your schedule. Most CFI's are not well off (Sorry guys but you know what I mean). If they get a new student, they are eager to teach. It is a living to them. If they don't fly, they aren't making money. If your CAP CFI doesn't give you a lesson after work, he gets to see his family. So if you come to a CFI at an FBO all eager to punch through your private in 4 months, most CFI's will get on board and try and help you. However, if you get a CAP CFI who works full time, most likely, he isn't going to want to spent four nights a week taking you up on lessons. He might only have time for 1 lesson a week, especially if he has other paying students outside CAP.

This also assumes that you will find a CFI that is not only available, but one you will like. This, I feel, is the biggest deal of all. A CFI in your private molds your flying, quite possibly for the rest of your flying career. The best habits are developed at the start and the worst ones either caught or missed. You want a CFI you really fit with. Not just the only one who is willing to take you on. Look carefully at their qualifications as well. How many students have they put through a private in the last 5 years? Don't sell yourself short just because someone is giving you something for nothing. Keep in mind that flying is still serious business and you want to get started on the right footing. It is almost unnatural that you need to demand a lot from your instructor but in turn, you are demanding a LOT more from them as an unpaid professional for your entire private. That's worth remembering. They are a professional, but they are not being paid.

So beware the amount of time that you are expecting your CAP CFI to donate. If it is free, it will be on his schedule, not yours. You can't 'fire' him. You'd be doing him a favor.

Then there is all the other CAP paperwork, delays, aircraft usage, down time, blah blah blah etc. If you go to a decent FBO, there will always be an aircraft available that you can schedule for a lesson. Their livelyhood depends on the aircraft being online. Not so with CAP. Repairs sometimes run with the speed of 1000 turtles. We've had a plane down for multiple weeks. That's life with CAP.

That's why I say, honestly, forget CAP to get you all the way through your private. On the face of it, the $2500 savings is significant. But depending on your instructor's availability, it might take you twice as long as you anticipated. And if you are chomping at the bit to get through it, be honest in asking yourself why the CAP route would make sense for you.

Good luck.

Thrashed

Make sure you know all the requirements for your Wing. My wing must approve all flight training (form on wing website) AND you must use the Cessna Part 141 flight training syllabus for training (that you must purchase). That includes all the stage checks with a checkpilot. I don't know of anyone in PA using CAP aircraft for flight training!  :(

Save the triangle thingy

Stearmann4

#34
QuoteWell, if he's applying for a rated slot at OCS, a PPL gets you points here and there.

Outstanding grades in college, PT scores, and demonstrated leadership potential will earn more favor than a PVT ticket for OCS. So many candidates I counsel/mentor want to go to flight school are under the impression that a pilot's license will help their chances. The short answer is yes, if you have advanced ratings and several hundred hours (i.e. you didn't just go get a PPL for the purpose of applying for OCS). Otherwise, take that 6-8K and go take some more/advanced college courses, whch also serves as a nice back up if OCS/flight school doesn't work out. Just my .02

MR-
Active Duty Army Aviator
Silver Wings Flying Company, LLC
Olympia Regional Airport (KOLM)
www.Silverwingsflying.com