ABU: Squadron patches and rocketry patch.

[LSThiker]

It's actually both. Since the Army transitioned to the ASU and the Service Greens were eliminated, the Tabs (i.e. Ranger, Special Forces, Sapper, President's Hundred and Governor's Twenty [National Guard only]) are worn subdued, as a shoulder tab, on the ACU but is worn as a full color enamel and metal badge on the ASU which is pinned on the left side normally below the ribbons on the pocket flap.

The Governor's Twenty does not have an associated metal tab and is only authorized in 14 states.  The same with the Iowa's Governor X and the Missouri Governor's 12 tabs. 

[Jester]

Where does it go on the field uniform if the wing requires the wing patch?

My assumption is that the tab would be a half-inch below the shoulder seam with the wing patch grounded and centered below the tab.

Cite please.  There is no allowance for either the tab by itself or to have two patches in that place.

I said it was an assumption (if I was going to recommend a policy on it, I'd probably refer to the old AR 670-1 from when the army sewed tabs and unit patches on the same shoulder, and just port that over).

But I've done a couple of cites in this conversation that have basically been met with fingers in ears, eyes squeezed shut, and screams of "LALALALALA", so you'll forgive me if I'm done jumping through hoops.

[Nick]

It's actually both.

Yeah I had a whole paragraph written up about the "metal replica" of a tab. I left it out for simplicity sake since we were talking about utility uniforms.


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[Shuman 14]

The Governor's Twenty does not have an associated metal tab

Are you sure? I saw an enamel and metal tab last time I was at Atterbury a couple of months ago.

[LSThiker]

The Governor's Twenty does not have an associated metal tab

Are you sure? I saw an enamel and metal tab last time I was at Atterbury a couple of months ago.

Sure it was the Governor's Twenty?  There are other similar shooting concepts such as the Iowa and Missouri.  Also some states have a shooting tab award by the State's AG.  Other states award a State Ribbon for the personnel that are awarded the Governor's Twenty tab for their ASUs.  So I would like to see a picture as it would be the first  Governor's Twenty metal replica badge I have seen.

Never seen one both in actual despite knowing a few Governor's Twenty personnel and never seen one being sold.  If there is one, then that specific state's NG created it.  It would not be the norm from my understanding.  Not saying a state did not create one for their personnel.  After all, VTNG created the Ram's Head badge. 

[Sapper168]

Where does it go on the field uniform if the wing requires the wing patch?

My assumption is that the tab would be a half-inch below the shoulder seam with the wing patch grounded and centered below the tab.

Cite please.  There is no allowance for either the tab by itself or to have two patches in that place.

Actually as far as placement goes AFI 36-2903 says to refer to the sister services wear policy which in this case would be the AR 670-1.

[Damron]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.   

[Meridius]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

[grunt82abn]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

Spot on brother!!! AATW!!! 1-505 PIR 89-92, 1-509 PIR, 92-94, CIB, among other stuff. I wear corporate, so I don't get to put all my cool guy stuff on.

[abdsp51]

I have my AF stuff I can wear and I choose not to.  My work in the AF doesn't impact CAP and my work in CAP doesn't impact the AF.  CAP service provides a good Community involvement bullet and to a degree leadership bullet but that's as far as it goes.

Personally  I think the AF needs to allow the wear of earned combat patches but it will not happen.  At least with the last couple of rewrites they have allowed the CIB and the CAB to be worn, as well as earned tabs.   

And wasn't the 1-504th at the heart of a huge scandal and investigation because of the misconduct of some in Afghanistan?

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

No one says you didn't, but your post is as if the above have any relevance to CAP, or as if you deserve to be able to wear them.  It's a privilege and a value-add, not a "right", per se.
What other organizaiton would allow you to do the same?

ARC?  Nope.

CERT?  Probably not, depends on the host, maybe some ribbons if the host wears an LEO-type uniform.

CAP is a non-combatant, benevolent service - there's no "Constitution defending" on the To Do list.
Push back a little less hard and understand the context of the organizaiton you've agreed to become a part of.

And consider that absent CAP membership, the only place you'd wear your decorations would be parades and the like.

[Damron]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

I certainly appreciate your service and I'm familiar with our uniform regulations.   My opinion does not minimize my respect for those that have served.

As far as not being relieved of your oath, unless you are a retired commissioned officer, wouldn't your MSO relieve you of your obligation?

If your prior or current service entitles you to wear your uniform, I wouldn't mind it.  i find it a bit odd seeing prior service wearing awards that they can't wear anyplace else but a CAP uniform.  I recognize wearing military awards is well established, just voicing an opinion that isn't uncommon but rarely spoken.

[grunt82abn]

I have my AF stuff I can wear and I choose not to.  My work in the AF doesn't impact CAP and my work in CAP doesn't impact the AF.  CAP service provides a good Community involvement bullet and to a degree leadership bullet but that's as far as it goes.

Personally  I think the AF needs to allow the wear of earned combat patches but it will not happen.  At least with the last couple of rewrites they have allowed the CIB and the CAB to be worn, as well as earned tabs.   

And wasn't the 1-504th at the heart of a huge scandal and investigation because of the misconduct of some in Afghanistan?

The 504th uncovered the scandal, they weren't apart of it.

[grunt82abn]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

I certainly appreciate your service and I'm familiar with our uniform regulations.   My opinion does not minimize my respect for those that have served.

As far as not being relieved of your oath, unless you are a retired commissioned officer, wouldn't your MSO relieve you of your obligation?

That's not entirely true, like and officer, when I retired as an NCO, I was placed into the same retired reserves, and now my MSO is indefinite.

[Damron]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

I certainly appreciate your service and I'm familiar with our uniform regulations.   My opinion does not minimize my respect for those that have served.

As far as not being relieved of your oath, unless you are a retired commissioned officer, wouldn't your MSO relieve you of your obligation?

That's not entirely true, like and officer, when I retired as an NCO, I was placed into the same retired reserves, and now my MSO is indefinite.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware that it was extended beyond retired commissioned (unrestricted)  line officers.

[stillamarine]

I wouldn't mind if CAP eliminated armed services and non-CAP-specific  items from CAP uniforms.

I would.

I earned my jump wings (combat 1st award), served in a forward combat unit (3-319th Airborne Field Artillery Regiment attached to 1-504th Parachute Infantry Regiment), my foreign awards, and all of my decorations.  I served 3 years in Germany.  We are authorized to wear the uniform of our parent unit, therefore CAN and SHOULD wear all applicable awards and decorations to the United States Air Force standards.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have not worn my combat identification badge (those of you in the club will know which division).  And, no one has ever releaved me of my oath to defend the Constitution of our great nation.

I earned my Gold Wings, CAR and quite a few other pieces of flair. My first year or so in CAP I wore them. Yeah, I wanted everyone to know I was the big bad combat Marine. I've kicked names and taken butts.........wait I think I got that wrong. Anyways, I've learned that those pieces of medal and ribbon don't have jack to do with CAP. Nor do they define who I am. They represent a time in my life I'm very proud of, that molded me into the leader I am now. I could care less about wearing them with a CAP uniform, I personally have no issue with the only things being on our uniforms being those items that are earned as a CAP member.

No one relieved you of your oath to defend the Constitution but I don't believe your oath as a Senior Member had anything to do with defending anything, which is the oath you are honoring in a CAP uniform.

[LSThiker]

As far as not being relieved of your oath, unless you are a retired commissioned officer, wouldn't your MSO relieve you of your obligation?

If an officer completes his MSO and decides to leave, he/she is put into IRR with an indefinite date.  A commissioned officer would then have to submit paperwork to actually resign his/her commission.  It does not apply to just retired commissioned officers. 

[Damron]

As far as not being relieved of your oath, unless you are a retired commissioned officer, wouldn't your MSO relieve you of your obligation?

If an officer completes his MSO and decides to leave, he/she is put into IRR with an indefinite date.  A commissioned officer would then have to submit paperwork to actually resign his/her commission.  It does not apply to just retired commissioned officers. 

Yes, I shouldn't have used the term MSO when I meant separation without further obligation.   

[Eclipse]

I know about IRR, but what's "retired reserve"?

[Jester]

Meh, I see CAP as a kind of continuation of my AF service. I wear all my stuff and don't give it any thought other than that's what I have and it is what it is.