Main Menu

Cadet Safety Overload

Started by High Speed Low Drag, November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

High Speed Low Drag

My Sq is currently in a state of uneasiness.  Since the reg ICL came out in June, my Sq CC has stated that all members MUST attend a safety briefing on the second meeting night of the month (a joint SM/Cadet night).  This safety briefing is 15-30 minutes long and covering all types of information (one was an examination of an airliner crash, another on the formation of hurricanes and hurricane safety).

SQ size - 47 SMs, 46 Cadets

The problem: cadet attendance has dropped to 25% on that meeting night, compared of that of any other meeting night.  Cadets have flat out said they won't come because of the safety briefing.  Sq CC and I have a great relationship; he is outstandingly supportive of the Cadet Program.  When I have brought this to his attention, he says that it is required by regs and that we will take a severe hit on any SUI if we don't.  He has directed the safety officer to be more cognitive of the cadets.  Unfortunately, still after about 5 minutes, the cadets' eyes are rolling up into their head & looke like glazed doughnuts

Additionally, we have been directed to have a 5 minute safety briefing at the beginning of EVERY meeting. The cadets are on Safety overload, but I see no end to this in sight.

Thoughts?
G. St. Pierre                             

"WIWAC, we marched 5 miles every meeting, uphill both ways!!"

capmaj

One Safety Officer for Senior presentations, an Assistant as Safety Officer for Cadets. Different format shown/taught on different nights.

Levi

Can the material be copied for distribution, then just an outline presented? Is there a way to involve the cadets in receiving the material before the presentation, and then one or more being responsible to assist in the presentation to the other cadets? With thought, there are creative ways to present the material, but that depends upon the skill and experience of the teacher. If the cadets can understand the critical and central importance of the material, and its relevance to them in particular and how they might use it in practice, perhaps that would help. In any case, good luck to ya!
Rev. Dr. L. Harry Soucy
Member D.A.V.
Member F.R.A.
U.S.N. Retired
SM, Goldsboro Composite Squadron, NC

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
cadet attendance has dropped to 25% on that meeting night, compared of that of any other meeting night.

This just became your testing night!

Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
Cadets have flat out said they won't come because of the safety briefing.

Not mature enough to 'suck it up'? Not mature enough to promote either.

Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
He has directed the safety officer to be more cognitive of the cadets.  Unfortunately, still after about 5 minutes, the cadets' eyes are rolling up into their head & looke like glazed doughnuts

All of the suggestions before my post make sense.

Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
Additionally, we have been directed to have a 5 minute safety briefing at the beginning of EVERY meeting.

They can't stay still for 5 minutes? Maybe they have a medical condition? Who knows?


In all seriousness...I've had to deal with the recitation of the safety pledge, and the mandatory safety briefings. I survived, and so will they. If they are immature enough to actually ditch a meeting due to 10-20% that they don't like, then they aren't mature enough to advance either.

davidsinn

You need interesting topics and you need to make them interesting. I'm not the SO but I gave a briefing last month on farm safety. I brought in some of my farm toys and showed them how they can be killed. I also found a good but short youtube video. I was intending to take them out to the farm to show them in person but mother nature decided to screw me over.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

RiverAux

#5
I sympathize with the original poster.  I believe we've exceeded the point of diminishing  returns for safety briefings.  Look at what davidsinn is reporting he has tried to do to at least make it interesting for them even if it has no relevance to CAP operations. 


Pingree1492

Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
My Sq is currently in a state of uneasiness.  Since the reg ICL came out in June, my Sq CC has stated that all members MUST attend a safety briefing on the second meeting night of the month (a joint SM/Cadet night).  This safety briefing is 15-30 minutes long and covering all types of information (one was an examination of an airliner crash, another on the formation of hurricanes and hurricane safety).

Additionally, we have been directed to have a 5 minute safety briefing at the beginning of EVERY meeting. The cadets are on Safety overload, but I see no end to this in sight.

Thoughts?


Unfortunately, safety briefings and information must be done.  But there are ways (including what was mentioned above) that you can make it less of a chore. 

First, in regards to the 5 minute safety briefing at the beginning of every meeting- that must be a local directive, as I can't find that in the regs anywhere.  What it does state is this:

Quote from: CAPR 62-1d. Safety Officers shall develop a program of regular safety education and mishap prevention training for the unit(s) to which they are assigned. This program shall deliver no less than 15 minutes per month of face-to-face safety education and training to the membership.

Notice it does not say that that has to be 15 consecutive minutes.  So Option 1 may be to do the 5 minute safety briefs every meeting (at 4 meetings/month X 5 minutes/meeting = 20 minutes/month) thus meeting the requirement in the reg as well as local directives.  This also enables you to drop the 15-30 minute presentation the 2nd meeting of the month.

Option 2: If Option 1 doesn't work- find out where the 5 minute/meeting safety presentation directive is coming from, and lobby respectfully up the chain to get rid of it.

Option 3: If above doesn't work, get your Safety and Aerospace Education Officer together, and see if there isn't a way to combine the Aerospace Current Event presentation with your 5 minute safety brief- thus killing two birds with one stone.  Of course, that would make all of your safety stuff aerospace related, but there are fun and interesting ways to do that.

Option 4: The suggestions already posted.  My unit has a Cadet Assistant Safety Officer that does all of the safety briefings for our cadets, under the supervision of the senior member Safety Officer.  This way, the seniors can focus on flight safety stuff, as they're primarily flight oriented, and the cadets can focus on stuff that's more relevant and interesting to them.  We've had this system in place for the last 2 quarters, and it has worked very well for us so far.


Quote from: USAFaux2004 on November 19, 2009, 05:38:34 PM
Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
Cadets have flat out said they won't come because of the safety briefing.

Not mature enough to 'suck it up'? Not mature enough to promote either.

In all seriousness...I've had to deal with the recitation of the safety pledge, and the mandatory safety briefings. I survived, and so will they. If they are immature enough to actually ditch a meeting due to 10-20% that they don't like, then they aren't mature enough to advance either.

You MUST make your meetings interesting and engaging.  If you are wasting the cadet's time presenting irrelevant material, they won't come to meetings, as High Speed [...] has noticed.  Maturity really isn't a factor here- if you waste my time I won't show up.  I don't care if you're 12 year old C/Amn Smith, or 18 year old C/Col Sparky, this applies to both.  Cadets have A LOT of other distractions and other activities they could be doing; they might put up with a couple of wasted meeting nights, but they won't put up with them forever.  How long they stick it out is usually determined by how much they've invested in the program.
On CAP Hiatus- the U.S. Army is kindly letting me play with some of their really cool toys (helicopters) in far off, distant lands  :)

RiverAux

QuoteIf you are wasting the cadet's time presenting irrelevant material, they won't come to meetings, as High Speed [...] has noticed.  Maturity really isn't a factor here- if you waste my time I won't show up.  I don't care if you're 12 year old C/Amn Smith, or 18 year old C/Col Sparky, this applies to both.
Applies to senior members as well....

Turtle1

Our Safety Officer does his presentation once a month and then emails the presentation to those that were not present for them to view on their own time.  All they have to do after that is email him back saying that they understood the presentation.
Marybeth Williams
Major, CAP

EMT-83

We do safety on testing night, so cadets have a pretty good attendance record - seniors and cadets receive the same briefing. Every activity begins with a minute or two on safety (one or two minutes, not ten or fifteen). Our safety officer is outstanding, with the ability to use real life experience and humor to keep it interesting.

Safety briefings are here to stay, so we might as well make the best of them. A 30 minute lecture once as month is certainly doing a disservice to the members, and will never instill a culture of safety.

jimmydeanno

Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on November 19, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
...15-30 minutes long once per month...
...5 minute safety briefing at the beginning of EVERY meeting...

I do find it a bit absurd.  Spending 10% of your monthly contact time in a formal safety setting is just ridiculous.  That is ~5 entire meeting nights a year!

I'm all for safety, but perhaps I just view it differently than other people.  I use safety to make it so I can do things and I think the safety program works well when it is "on demand" in its implementation. 

I'm of the mindset that the supervisors of an activity should be the ones that figure out what needs to be done so that an activity can happen.  That means that I do ORM assessment, or one of the senior cadets running the activity does it.  Then we integrate the safety "briefing" into the activity just before we do it. 

This means, for me, when we are about to do something that I cover the predetermined risks and how to avoid them.  For example, if we go hiking, before we start, I cover weather conditions, escape routes, etc.  It takes 5 minutes, but it is integrated into the activity they are doing - not some random topic applied at a time and place that it has no bearing.  They don't even notice the time is gone.

We did an ELT search last night at our squadron meeting.  That meant cadets walking around the base, in the dark.  Safety briefing before included things like "don't blindly walk into the road," "everyone wears a reflective vest," etc. 

Some of it can be helped by integrating the safety briefing into the thing that needs to have a briefing.  Hiking safety before you start hiking, obstacle course safety before doing the obstacle course, etc.  When you stop all activity and say, "it's time for our safety briefing" it changes the entire climate and people don't pay attention.

Would I show up if I knew that I had to sit through 45 minutes of "safety" at a time?  Heck no.  But it isn't because I'm anti-safety.

It seems to work just fine.  13 years of CAP and not a single accident in any of the units I've ever been a member of.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Airrace

Just make the safety breifing more interesting. There are lots of videos and guest speakers that will come and talk for free. A safety breifing is of no value if it's boring and members don't pay attention to the material.

RogueLeader

I don't think 15-20a month is that bad.  Active duty we get abot 10-15 per week on friday.
WYWG DP

GRW 3340

RiverAux

You're forgetting the 15-30 minute monthly briefing being required as well as the 5 minutes per meeting.

jimmydeanno

Quote from: RogueLeader on November 21, 2009, 12:44:00 AM
I don't think 15-20a month is that bad.  Active duty we get abot 10-15 per week on friday.

My contention isn't the amount of time.  My contention is the amount of time based on the contact hours.

Your 10-15 a week is based off 40-50 hours.  We don't get that amount of contact at a meeting for 1/3 a year.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

JC004

I simply think that the whole safety program and the stop-gap measures associated with it are out of whack and need direction.

For instance, when you've got unit safety officers briefing members on, say, poultry cooking safety because they've run out of topics and they are required to just brief on "safety," there's a problem.  Poultry can make you sick, but I don't see that putting a dent in our aircraft incident/accident record.

jimmydeanno

Quote from: JC004 on November 21, 2009, 05:42:46 AM
For instance, when you've got unit safety officers briefing members on, say, poultry cooking safety because they've run out of topics and they are required to just brief on "safety," there's a problem.  Poultry can make you sick, but I don't see that putting a dent in our aircraft incident/accident record.

Haven't you ever had the MPs come back from lunch break during a SAREX after eating some bad Kung Pow Chicken?  Not a pretty sight...
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

RogueLeader

Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 21, 2009, 03:06:07 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on November 21, 2009, 12:44:00 AM
I don't think 15-20a month is that bad.  Active duty we get abot 10-15 per week on friday.

My contention isn't the amount of time.  My contention is the amount of time based on the contact hours.

Your 10-15 a week is based off 40-50 hours.  We don't get that amount of contact at a meeting for 1/3 a year.

and just how much time do they have to do stupid stuff in a week.  Safety should not just be CAP Specific, but to include "civi' time as well.
WYWG DP

GRW 3340

RiverAux

Actually, it should not.  People join CAP to do CAP stuff, not other stuff.  CAP-specific safety training is just fine, but that is as far as it should go.

While training our finance officers should they also be required to receive training on personal finance issues? 

Frankly, its not CAP's business whether or not I want to run around my house with a machete in my hand and marbles on the floor.   

Pumbaa

Quote from: RiverAux on November 22, 2009, 12:26:37 AM
Frankly, its not CAP's business whether or not I want to run around my house with a machete in my hand and marbles on the floor.   

WIMP!!!  Try doing that with a chainsaw at full open throttle!

;)

I did a series of 9 classes called "moments from disaster".  We analyzed disasters, such as the Titanic, space shuttle, ski trolley fire, concord disaster, air disasters, aircraft carrier fire (Vietnam), UUS Thresher, etc...  We looked at each disaster and the chain of events that caused it and determined what would have happened if only one part of the chain of events was changed. We then applied it to our own lives and CAP... The cadets literally applauded after each presentation.

You can make them interesting.  Are we on safety overload?  You bet...

jimmydeano also has the right idea of integrating the lectures too...  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

RogueLeader

Quote from: RiverAux on November 22, 2009, 12:26:37 AM
Actually, it should not.  People join CAP to do CAP stuff, not other stuff.  CAP-specific safety training is just fine, but that is as far as it should go.

While training our finance officers should they also be required to receive training on personal finance issues? 

Frankly, its not CAP's business whether or not I want to run around my house with a machete in my hand and marbles on the floor.

I want my cadets to come back safe and ready to train.  I know that they aren't under my charge when they are away, but if I can say something relevent that can keep them safe, you can be darn sure that I will.
WYWG DP

GRW 3340