Cost for new(digital capable?)radio

[Senior]

What is the cost for a basic, mobile, 2 meter radio now for use in CAP?

WIWAC the Yaesu(spelling ?) was the hot thing to have as a mobile.
In a short message what is the new standard required for mobile radio
communication, something to do with digital capable?

[Eclipse]

$1500-2500 dollars based on the compliant equipment list.

There is very little you can buy today (that wasn't in service before Jan 2006) that is compliant.

My advice would be to wait until the whole NTIA/frequency/compliant equipment issue is finalied and CAP gets back on track for narrow-band. 

Last I read I thought I saw 2009.

[_]

Even if you buy a narrow band complaint radio the next step is for CAP radios to use digital encryption (P25). If you're going to put up the money for a narrow band radio be aware it may only be usable for a couple years. 

There are radios that meet the narrow band requirements but aren't on the list.  The reason is that the companies don't want to spend the money to get them certified.  You can sometimes find them for cheaper  on ebay.

[Eclipse]

There are radios that meet the narrow band requirements but aren't on the list.  The reason is that the companies don't want to spend the money to get them certified.  You can sometimes find them for cheaper  on ebay.

...and they are not "legal" for CAP use...

[Senior]

What is wide band versus narrow band?
So, CAP is transitioning to narrow band and then transitioning to P25 at
a later date?  That seems very expensive.

[arajca]

The difference between wide band and narrow band is wide band has channel spacing at 25Khz and narrow at 12.5 khz. This allows for more channels in a given band.

Say I have a band width of 200Khz. Under wide band, I can only get 8 channels, but narrow allows for 16.

[Eclipse]

What is wide band versus narrow band?
So, CAP is transitioning to narrow band and then transitioning to P25 at
a later date?  That seems very expensive.

The EFJ radios that CAP is currently issuing are P25 compliant, implemtnation of P25 is still in the planning phase, but the gear is compliant.

[Senior]

More questions.  When I asked about a mobile radio I meant a handheld
unit.  Does the EFJ handheld cost $1500-$2500?   How does the EFJ  hold
up in the field?  Does the CAP radios have the keypad?  Are the new P25
radios being issued down to the unit level and more precisely, does the
radio only go to the squadron commander?

[Eclipse]

Does the EFJ handheld cost $1500-$2500?

Yes - $1500 on the HT's and about 18-2500 for the mobile.
Many of us jokingly refer to the HT's as the "mortgage payment", and we have had a few
members refuse them or not request them for fear of the expense if lost or damaged.

How does the EFJ  hold up in the field? 

Very well, they are bullet proof, well-made commercial radios, but they weigh
about 2-times+ what a VX-150 weighs, and are about twice as large.  One nice
thing is that they are accessory identical to Motorola HT-1000's, so hand mics, surveillance earpieces and
similar accessories can be ordered from lots of different vendors, and many people
already have them.

Does the CAP radios have the keypad?   

No.

Are the new P25 radios being issued down to the unit level and more precisely, does the
radio only go to the squadron commander?

The last load of radios was issued to members from the table of allowances based on ES usage - primarily in sets to GTL's of 1 mobile, 1 HT, and 3 ISRs.  YMMV by wing.  Mine, for example issued something like 45 sets of "ES radios" to GTL's.

This was / is in addition to the allocations sent out of equipment for unit usage and net stations (i.e. every unit should have at least one radio in the squadron, etc., again YMMV by wing.)

If the unit CC is also an active GTL, then he may well snag the radio and use it.  If not, then it may / should go to someone in the unit who is  GTL or UDF, etc.

In some states, the ES Officers were tasked with deploying the equipment based on their knowledge of the ES usage, in others the DC's did the issue. 

It probably goes without saying that in order to be issued a radio you have to have an A-Level ROA card, and wings with Logistics issues may not get anything.

[_]

...they are bullet proof, well-made commercial radios, but they weigh
about 2-times+ what a VX-150 weighs, and are about twice as large.

The wing comms officer showed us one of those things at the last CLC.  I thought we were done with carrying "brick" radios.  They do look very well made though.

[Eclipse]

The ones USAF is buy us are on the right:

, though our wing's DC recently found one with a keypad on eBay for $400.

[Senior]

Another question.  What is the keypad used for? 
In todays CAP misson environment is there enough commo work to go around at a misson base?  Or do a lot of people show up at a misson for commo and never really get to do their job?  I ask these questions since I am looking at jobs to do on a misson.  I would like to be on a gt but I don't
have the time to be out at all hours.  I have two young children.  Commo
might be a job I could do.

[_]

The keypad can be used for frequency entry, making phone calls (in the ham world, not cap), quite a few things.  Since CAP has only a finite set of frequencies they like the versions without the keypad so you aren't able to put in any frequencies other than what they want you to use.

As for comms at mission base.  I usually find that the radio operators at mission base are usually cadets that don't have anything but GES so they can't go out on a ground team so they usually get put behind a radio.  Some are good but there is always a need for good comms people.  I can't tell you how much better things go when there is a well trained and knowledgeable comms person on the other end of the radio when we have to call base for something.  A good comms person makes the jobs of the mission staff and ground teams a whole lot easier.

[Eclipse]

Another question.  What is the keypad used for? 
In todays CAP misson environment is there enough commo work to go around at a misson base?  Or do a lot of people show up at a misson for commo and never really get to do their job?  I ask these questions since I am looking at jobs to do on a misson.  I would like to be on a gt but I don't
have the time to be out at all hours.  I have two young children.  Commo
might be a job I could do.

Most of our missions involve at least two, and sometimes more radios with operators and staff.  Our comm people are trained to use proper message handling and everything is passed in writing, usually on 3-part forms.

Radio operators have to be at least trainees as MRO's, new cadets can be in the comm center as MSA's but don't spend a lot of time on the radios until they understand the procedures. (of course there are exceptions to everything).

We've taken major steps to professionalize comms over the last 2-3 years from lessons learned.

[♠SARKID♠]

$1500-2500 dollars based on the compliant equipment list.

And thats why EFJ is the devil.     That and I'll be %^&*ed if I can figure out how to change channels and banks on those dang things.

As far as cadets working radio, I like the idea.  On all of the SAREXs I can think of, we've had cadets behind the mic and not all of them were MRO.  Sure, some of them make you want to reach through the mic and violate the CPP but its a learning process for them.  If I hadn't been parked behind an HF for half my SAREX time I probably wouldn't have my HAM ticket.  Although, I probably would have more cash and my student loans would probably be paid off (oh wait, thats right, mom bought me all my radios  .  Gotta love graduation and christmas gifts!)

This coming weekend we're having a wing wide invite for MRO and mission staff training.  Anyone who comes and chooses the comm track will walk away with their MRO regardless of previous training.

[Senior]

When I was a cadet, that is what you did as a cadet, communications.
I remember very professional training by the seniors and the all the cadets
being very proficient communicators.  This was in the late 80's when we had wing nets every evening.  I am glad to hear that professionalism is being taught.  I never participated in an AF comm exercise, but when I was
a cadet CAP always beat the AF in sending a message daisy chain from one
area to another.   As I remember the message was sent across the United
States.  Those were the days. 

[Senior]

Back to topic.  How do you synchronize the digital encryption, do you have
a fill/synch event.  I remember in the Army, we had the SINCGARS.  You had
do a "fill" to synchronize the encyrption if I remember correctly.  The fill was
always a hassle.  If you could find one cheap(HA HA HA) would you recommend one with a keypad?

[SarDragon]

So far, we are not doing any encrypted stuff with CAP radios on a routine basis. Discussing any of the how-tos on here probably isn't a good idea, anyway.

[Eclipse]

I'm not even sure that encryption is approved for use on CAP radios, its just in testing phase right now.

[♠SARKID♠]

^Yes, but it has to be approved in writing by NTC before hand and we have to use their encryption keys.

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2007_12_18_Project_25.pdf

g. CRYPTO/SCRAMBLING: Encrypted P25 transmissions of any kind are permitted ONLY if advance authorization is granted in writing by the NTC. Only approved Keying Material provided by the NTC will be used. Use of locally constructed encryption keys is prohibited. Only approved encryption algorithms may be utilized.