This is split off from here:  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3648.new#new

Quote from: afgeo4 on December 01, 2007, 06:27:18 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2007, 04:16:38 AM

Quote from: afgeo4 on December 01, 2007, 03:17:45 AM
A couple of radios were donated to my unit a while back and unfortunately, we have no commo gurus on hand. I don't even know if they're "CAP-kosher", but I'd like to. They're brand new. If I post the make/model, will you be able to tell me if they're worth getting certified and channeled or if we should just e-bay them for squadron funds?

As an FYI - property of any kind cannot be accepted at the unit level - it must be accepted by Wing, which will make them a corporate asset and not the unit's call as to disposition without permission.

Hate to be the reg stazi, but it'll be worse if you sell them without permission - when you account for the cash with the Wingbank, someone is bound to raise the issue of selling a corporate asset.

Eclipse...

I believe there IS property that may be owned/operated by the squadron. If I decide to donate a uniform item, it doesn't have to go through Wing and become a corp asset. If it's a coffee machine, it doesn't go that route either. If a computer is donated, it isn't an issue of Wing property.
What regulation states that anything given to a unit must become corporate property? What regulation states that property of a unit may not be sold off? This isn't property of CAP. It is the unit's members' property. Purchased with their personal funds for their use. Sure, you can't sell off Corporate property that's issued, but... if you bought it, you can sell it. If you disagree, please quote the proper reg.

You are, unfortunately operating under a common but flawed assumption.

Some easy rules to live buy:

1) All property "owned" by a unit is corporate property.
2) All money "owned" by a unit is corporate money.

3) Unit CC's may accept cash donations directly up to $5000.
4) All property must be received at the wing level (or higher) and becomes corporate property.

5) If you have a roomful of equipment which is not clearly marked as to owner, and
nothing on your S-3, it'll be an issue come SUI time.  YMMV as to how much of an issue,
based on what wing you are in and whether CAP-USAF is involved in the audits/SUI's.

Quote from: CAPR 67-1 http://level2.cap.gov/documents/CAPR_671.pdf

2-8. Purchasing Property. Under certain conditions, CAP units may purchase needed items with Federally-appropriated funds, corporate funds, or other funds such as those provided by a state or local government. See CAPR 70-1, CAP Acquisition Regulation, for policies concerning expenditure of funds. The wing legal officer should be consulted prior to the use of state or local government provided funds. Log all non-expendable property purchases into CATS and indicate in the CATS "source" field whether the item is DoD-funded, state-funded, or corporate-funded. NHQ /LGS will input property purchased by NHQ into CATS. Region/wing LG staff are responsible for logging their property purchases on the CAPF 38 and entering them into CATS.

2-9. Property Donations. Individuals, business enterprises, foundations, state, and local governments may donate property to CAP. Acceptance of donations is authorized and encouraged, but units are to strictly follow CAPR 173-4, Fund Raising/Donations, procedures when receiving or selling donated property. Earmark all non-expendable property contributions as "Donation" in the "source" field of CATS and maintain a copy of the donation receipt in Part I of the Property File.

2-10. Found-on-Base Property (FoB). Property whose original funding source is unknown will be added to the inventory using "FoB" in the "Source" field of CATS. This indicates that a reasonable effort to determine the source of the property has been made but cannot be determined. FoB property will be handled the same as property from DRMO. Identifying an item's source as FoB should not be used to circumvent CAP's responsibility to properly account for property

Quote from: CAPR 173-4 http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503080700.pdf
SECTION B - DONATIONS – PROCEDURES
7. Donations of Property. Selected solicitation campaigns may be effective to obtain donations of property such as computers, aircraft, vehicles, radios, etc. For aircraft and vehicles, prior approval is required from NHQ CAP/EX. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. In addition, the donor may request an IRS Form 8283. You many obtain an IRS Form 8283, Noncash Charitable Contributions, and instructions at http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/. CAP officers who may accept property donations are:
a. Wing commanders − for donations of property valued by donor up to $5,000.
b. Region commanders − for donation of property valued by donor between $5,000 and $10,000.
c. Executive Director − for donations of property valued by donor in excess of $10,000.

One thing which causes people big issues:
Allowing property to just "show up" with no donation source (i.e. desks, coffee makers, computers, etc.), This becomes an issue at disposal time, because anything without a source becomes FOB, subject to the entirety of the DRMO rules.  Trust me, you don't want a 10-year old printer categorized as FOB and then thrown out - the person tossing it in the trash (i.e. Unit CC) can be liable for the indicated value of the item, and may even be subject to criminal prosecution.  FOB property involves the DRMO, and to them we are just a line item, CAP or not.

The fundamental rule here is that nothing is just "around" - if it belongs to a specific member, then it needs to be labeled as such, and CAP accepts no liability for its use while the member temporarily allows the unit to use it.  Anything the unit believes it owns, must be logged in CATS and indicated on the S-3's, subject to the above acceptance rules, etc.

A lot of people break the above rules either through a misguided idea that "Wing will try and take my stuff/money", an unwillingness to properly complete the paperwork, or some combo of the above, I can't address that here, as its simply a breach of the regs which has its own potential consequence.

Now, on to the sale aspect

Quote from: CAPR 67-1 http://level2.cap.gov/documents/CAPR_671.pdf
d. For property whose source is not DRMO or Federally-appropriated funds. CAP region/wing commander may approve the disposal of property received from sources other than DRMO or federal appropriated funds. This includes property purchased with corporate funds and donations. However, the region/wing commander must comply with any disposal restrictions that apply to the property or acquisition funds. See CAPR 173-4 for notification requirements on disposal of donated property.

2-26. Sale of Property. If disposition instructions direct the sale of an item, refer to CAPR 70-1, Civil Air Patrol Acquisition Regulation, for procedures. Records of the sale must include sale price, date, location, and name of successful bidder and must be maintained in the Part I of the Property File. Once sold, property will be retired in CATS and annotated on the CAPF 38. Document the successful bidder's information to include name, address, phone number, and email address in the "Remarks" area of CATS.
a. The following organizations and individuals are prohibited from bidding on CAP property sales:
1) CAP corporate officers.
2) CAP National Headquarters directors and deputy directors.
3) CAP employees or volunteer members who are directly involved in the sales process.
4) Immediate family, partners, or organizations which employ (or are about to employ) any of the above indicated parties.

b. Proceeds from the sales of property must be sent to NHQ/LG for deposit by NHQ/FM. Copies of the following documents must accompany the proceeds for review to ensure proper sales procedures were followed: disposition instructions authorizing the sale, copy of advertisement along with page header, record of offers, bill of sale, and justification for accepting other than highest offer. The selling unit may apply for reimbursement of reasonable costs used in conducting the sale (e.g., cost for advertising) and may ask to retain proceeds from the sale of property that was donated or purchased with corporate funds.

The above assumes that whatever property you have:

A) Has enough value to make it worth bothering to go through the sale process, versus just disposing of it.
B) The equipment is not needed elsewhere within the Wing or Region.

Both A&B are at the discretion of the wing/region commander, not the disposing unit.

I still think ILWG is going to take my stuff (or more to the point those that live North of I 80)

I also firmly beleive that the Wing Banker Program was a secret plot by Pineda to gather money with which to purchase arms for his followers. Or his own island. Either way, I dont expect to see any money again once its gone into the Wing account. 

QuoteI also firmly beleive that the Wing Banker Program was a secret plot by Pineda to gather money with which to purchase arms for his followers. Or his own island. Either way, I dont expect to see any money again once its gone into the Wing account.  Roll Eyes

I usually think you are right on target, but this is a silly ignorant approach. 

Any organization that has a 3 million droller estimate as to its worth is doing lots of financial accounting incorrectly.