We have GOT to get rid of the term "Senior Member!"

[JohnKachenmeister]

I command a "Cadet-free" unit.  I got a phone call last week from a very concerned community organization.  The very nice young lady said she wanted to bring some representatives of her group to talk to my "Seniors" about bathroom safety. 

Did I know that 60 percent of all home injuries suffered by "Seniors" are the result of falls in the bathroom?  And did I know that most heart attacks and strokes occur in the bathroom?

Apparently, to her, the term "Senior" meant "Doddering Old Fart."  That's what it means to a lot of people.  Also, you are a Senior Member for 6 months before you are a second lieutenant.  How can we call our newest members, who are junior to butterbars, "Senior" members? 

A while back, HWSNBN began to phase out the term "Senior Member."  I hope that baby did not get thrown out with the bath water.

Now, I DID consider bringing her in for "Safety Stand Down Day," but then I realized I would have to report it up the chain.  Knowing the bonehead stuff coming out of National on safety lately, I am sure they would develop a new online course we would have to take every year on how not to die when taking a dump.  Everybody would have blamed me for that!

[Hawk200]

If for only that reason, it's worth it.

[Eclipse]

Non issue, non-concur, more old road, get over it, correct assumptions and move on.

HWSRN took the wind out of any sales on a name change for a while trying to be too cool for his own good.

[Angus]

Did you know that a fair amount of people die while straining to take a dump each year?  It's something that shold be looked into. 

But in all hosesty yes I think a discussion in renaming the adult memebership might be a good idea.  I know HWSNBN wanted to change the term to "Officers" however with the attempts to reintroduce the Enlisted Program a new name should be used.  I think something simple like "Adult members."

[lordmonar]

Let's just stick with officer...and stop (and eliminate) the effort to resart the NCO program.

[Eclipse]

Let's just stick with officer...and stop (and eliminate) the effort to resart the NCO program.

((*sigh*))

(R) Not all members are officers, in fact there are at least 10 SMWOG who are unit CC's.

"Members" is fine, or "Adult Members".

[coudano]

Adult member conjures all sorts of interesting images...
We will have a meeting of adult members
Two adult members must be present at overnight cadet activities

Beughhh

[Pylon]

Let's just stick with officer...and stop (and eliminate) the effort to resart the NCO program.

((*sigh*))

(R) Not all members are officers, in fact there are at least 10 SMWOG who are unit CC's.

"Members" is fine, or "Adult Members".

Police Officers are called officers even if they're patrolmen or sergeants.  They're still officers.  Just because the military uses the term one way doesn't mean we have to use it that way.

[Eclipse]

Police Officers are called officers even if they're patrolmen or sergeants.  They're still officers.  Just because the military uses the term one way doesn't mean we have to use it that way.

In our context it does, we are a paramilitary organization in which the term "officer" has a specific meaning, especially to 1/2 the corps.

A police cadet or trainee is nearly always also an adult, not so in CAP, nor do most police departments have a distinction of membership category based on age.

Seriously, is this worth the digits for another new thread?  Just because some people have no clue is not a reason to change the system.
When a "Senior Pentagon Official" is quoted as a news source, do 1/2 the people reading it think the person is over 65.

[FW]

We've all heard this argument for years and, we all come back to the use of "senior member". As far as I'm concerned, those of us who are not cadets should just be considered as a "CAP member".    Cadets are "cadets".   

Then again, as long as you don't call me "late for dinner", I don't cringe....

Seriously, isn't this is just an argument over semantics?  I don't think we have an identity crisis.  And, "outsiders" don't really care now, do they... 

[Flying Pig]

Im all for "Hey! yeah you, new guy."

[lordmonar]

Let's just stick with officer...and stop (and eliminate) the effort to resart the NCO program.

((*sigh*))

(R) Not all members are officers, in fact there are at least 10 SMWOG who are unit CC's.

"Members" is fine, or "Adult Members".

Easy fix.....SMWOG's can't be commanders.
Eliminate the NCO's
Ignore the sponsor and patron members
Call SMWOG....Officer Canidates.

[lordmonar]

Police Officers are called officers even if they're patrolmen or sergeants.  They're still officers.  Just because the military uses the term one way doesn't mean we have to use it that way.

In our context it does, we are a paramilitary organization in which the term "officer" has a specific meaning, especially to 1/2 the corps.

A police cadet or trainee is nearly always also an adult, not so in CAP, nor do most police departments have a distinction of membership category based on age.

Seriously, is this worth the digits for another new thread?  Just because some people have no clue is not a reason to change the system.
When a "Senior Pentagon Official" is quoted as a news source, do 1/2 the people reading it think the person is over 65.

Well...in our parent services jargon....Airman (with a big A) is the term for all USAF members officer, NCO and enlisted.

So....your reasoning does not carry through.

We can have two distintions....Officers and Cadets.  Simple and easy...Members will be used for everyone.  "Adult Member" does not work because we have cadets who are also adults.

[spacecommand]

Being a family friendly organization we can't call em FNGs.  So just call them NEWBIES (initialed NOOB for the ID) and move along.  Of course that won't address Cadets who move over to the "senior" side, though FO is there.

[coudano]

When a "Senior Pentagon Official" is quoted as a news source, do 1/2 the people reading it think the person is over 65.

A lot of senior pentagon officials *ARE* over 65
bwahahaha

[Eclipse]

Let's just stick with officer...and stop (and eliminate) the effort to resart the NCO program.

((*sigh*))

(R) Not all members are officers, in fact there are at least 10 SMWOG who are unit CC's.

"Members" is fine, or "Adult Members".

Easy fix.....SMWOG's can't be commanders.
Eliminate the NCO's
Ignore the sponsor and patron members
Call SMWOG....Officer Canidates.

Again, where do I sign?

[Krapenhoeffer]

Here's a concept that I've started to discover works wonders in the Engineering field:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

All that matters is that CAP, and Ma Blue knows what our internal schemes mean.

Nothing else matters.

[lordmonar]

To a point I agree with you.

But the subject of this thread is....maybe it is broke.

Internally and with MA Blue everything is find....but we have all seen confusion with our terms with the outside world.

So....just suppose for an few seconds...that our customers and our target audience are in fact confused with the term "Senior Member".

Changing it to something else "adult member", "Officer", "Old Fat Guys" may improve the communication and perceptions of those outside of CAP....and maybe it will help improve the relationship we have with outside agencies.

As others have stated......it's not really, really broke.......just as your car tire that is loosing a little air is not really flat. 

So we either accept that we have to check the air and fill it up from time to time....or we can decide that it is time to just replace the [darn] thing and move on.

So...this discussion is about a)is the confusion our jargon causes worth fixing the problem and b) what sort of tire do we replace it if we decide to fix it.

If you don't think the topic is worth talking about....don't talk about it.

[Pylon]

I'm all for changing terms for the sake of clarity.  I don't really care if a term has a lot of history or sentimental value.  In fact, when I do consulting, the things that make me cringe the most (and often results in justification of some of the most ridiculous/stupid things) include phrases like "that's the way we've always done it" and "well, it seems to work well enough for now". 


If we can change "senior member" to "member" or "officer" or "insert just about anything here" and it results in a little more clarity, even a little better recruiting efficacy, or even just a little saved face in front of outside agencies or the media. 


Just the same, if someone said that "Ground Team" is confusing or ambiguous and outside agencies would better understand what we were talking about if we changed the name, and it makes sense, I'd be all for it.  Who cares how long we've used the term?

[AirDX]

Easy fix.....SMWOG's can't be commanders.
Eliminate the NCO's
Ignore the sponsor and patron members
Call SMWOG....Officer Canidates.

Non-concur.

My unit meets on an active air force base.  We have:

O-6 members that do not want to be an O-5 in CAP, thus remaining as SM.  Any one of them would make an excellent unit CC if they were so inclined, and if they don't want to regress to LTC, they really won't want to be Officer Candidates.  We have professional NCO members who only want to be professional NCOs in CAP.  Why throw them out with the bathwater?

The word "senior" being misinterpreted is just not a good reason to change.  "Senior" is used all over the working world without misunderstanding.  In my job, I interface with the Senior Director in the PACAF AMD.  I also work with the TACC Senior Directors at Scott Air Force Base.  As a contractor my boss was a Senior Program Manager, and we had Senior Logistics Analysts, Senior Intel Analysts, etc.  Trust me, none of them need help in the bathroom.  This is another non-issue.