I am new to CAP. I retired from the US Army and I am trying to find out what is authorized for wear on the CAP Uniform. I noticed that the Combat Infantrymen's Badge is authorized. Since the Combat Action Badge (CAB) is an equal award for support Soldiers (and can be worn by Airmen who earned it) is it authorized for wear on the CAP Uniform?
Additionally, I see that the Air Assault Badge can be worn, I assume that the Airborne Badge is authorized. In the Army I could wear my CAB, Airborne Badge and Air Assault Badge over my ribbons. Reading your regulations it appears that I can only wear two of these badges. Is this correct?
Quote from: TopJack on January 27, 2020, 04:32:07 PMI see that the Air Assault Badge can be worn, I assume that the Airborne Badge is authorized. In the Army I could wear my CAB, Airborne Badge and Air Assault Badge over my ribbons. Reading your regulations it appears that I can only wear two of these badges. Is this correct?
The USAF has a limit of two so CAP has the same rule. Military badges are worn only on the USAF style uniform. And in addition, if you have CAP wings of any type, those HAVE to be worn. On top of that, once your ribbon & badge stack hits the upper notch of the lapel on the coast you have to stop. And nothing goes on the pocket flap of anything ever.
In my case on Blues this results in Senior Observer over jump wings, over military & CAP ribbons (Also retired army). On CAP whites its is Senior Observer over master ground team over CAP ribbons only.
In the Army we wore everything, In the USAF it doesn't work that way - you will be leaving stuff off. For you I would wear air assault & jump wings as those are the most aviation oriented. And you may well discover that if you wear both - some of the ribbons will have to come off to avoid it being too tall. And thats with no CAP stuff on the uniform at all.
As has been said above. You can wear your CAB, your Jump Wings, or the AA badge as long as its on your 214 or NGB22. Any military badge authorized for wear by the Air Force can be worn. You are correct in that you can only wear two, and only on Blues, ABU's or BDU's. We follow Air Force wear instructions meaning that the Jump Wings are considered an aeronautical rating and will take precedence over all others so you would wear them above your AA badge or CAB, and below any CAP aeronautical wings.
Also, any foreign awards are worn AFTER CAP awards so if you have MFO, NATO, UN, etc.. they go on last.
Thank you this information was very helpful.
Wear CAP stuff on the CAP uni and Army stuff on the Army uni. No confusion. No ambiguity in the regs.
Quote from: THRAWN on January 28, 2020, 04:46:08 PM
Wear CAP stuff on the CAP uni and Army stuff on the Army uni. No confusion. No ambiguity in the regs.
This is the only correct answer.
Quote from: Gunsotsu on January 28, 2020, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on January 28, 2020, 04:46:08 PM
Wear CAP stuff on the CAP uni and Army stuff on the Army uni. No confusion. No ambiguity in the regs.
This is the only correct answer.
While certainly the simplest answer, it is far from being the only correct answer.
Did I read recently that the "below the notch" requirement has been or will be abandoned? Or was I dreaming it?
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Just dreaming it as far as I know; though I would love to see it eliminated.
Supposedly it's removed in the new 39-1 that's been supposedly coming out for a couple of years now.
Quote from: Jester on January 30, 2020, 02:10:20 PMSupposedly it's removed in the new 39-1 that's been supposedly coming out for a couple of years from now.
Fixed that for you. ;) ;D >:D
Quote from: jeders on January 28, 2020, 05:29:06 PMQuote from: Gunsotsu on January 28, 2020, 05:26:43 PMQuote from: THRAWN on January 28, 2020, 04:46:08 PMWear CAP stuff on the CAP uni and Army stuff on the Army uni. No confusion. No ambiguity in the regs.
This is the only correct answer.
While certainly the simplest answer, it is far from being the only correct answer.
Agreed.
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Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 30, 2020, 08:02:20 AMDid I read recently that the "below the notch" requirement has been or will be abandoned? Or was I dreaming it?
Oh, I hope so.
There's a few other things would like to see, but still hoping to see something on a new uniform manual somewhat soon.
Of course there was a reason the "below the notch" rule came about.
Someone under 5'-9" with 20+ ribbons and two badges above the ribbons...
Not a pretty sight!
For clarification, the Air Force rule does ONLY allow for 2 badges ABOVE the ribbons (or two above the USAF name tape on ABU/OCPs), but, the Air Force does authorize TWO ADDITIONAL badges be worn in other locations.
In addition to then 2 badges above the USAF tape on the ABU, 2 more may be worn centered on the ABU pockets, for a total of FOUR badges.
On the service coat, the additional 2 badges may be worn below the ribbons, centered on the pocket, with a FOURTH badge placed on the wearer's right side, centered and even with the badge on the wearer's left.
I wore 4 badges on my ABUs since about 2015 when they authorized those 2 additional badges, but since switching to OCPs, am only wearing 2.
That's the Air Force. CAP, to my knowledge, never authorized additional skill badges to be worn in that fashion.
Here's an example of a THIRD skill badge being placed BELOW the ribbons. The other badge, on CZ's right side is the CJCS badge. However, a FOURTH badge, such as Air Assault or Pathfinder could be worn there. Again, a total of FOUR badges may be worn on blues in the AIR FORCE, I do not believe those same badges are authorized to be worn that way in CAP.
(https://media.defense.gov/2019/Dec/13/2002224421/825/780/0/191210-A-UG256-001.JPG)
Quote from: Stonewall on February 02, 2020, 02:38:25 PMI wore 4 badges on my ABUs since about 2015 when they authorized those 2 additional badges, but since switching to OCPs, am only wearing 2.
At Balad, I had a couple of ABU tops with 4 badges done and had them sew in some zippers from some abandoned ACU tops I found in the laundry. Both tops cost me a total of $10. If I were stateside I would have had to take out a mortgage.
I've been meaning to read the AF uniform regs one of these days but apparently a fourth device is authorized on the right side. I don't readily see a photo of a guy in fatigues to share as I have in the past but I did find some PJs wearing a fourth badge. Unfortunately it won't allow me to attach the photos. I understand it's not applicable to us though. Retired Army here as well by the way.
Here are links if that helps.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F427490189606564658%2F&psig=AOvVaw2Jc1ZvelAQfEeCwiXN1S9m&ust=1582163337794000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCOD83_S_3OcCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAP
https://pin.it/aaethznaqf62f7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Air_Force#/media/File:LtCol_Coy_Speer.png
Quote from: Stonewall on February 02, 2020, 02:43:05 PMHere's an example of a THIRD skill badge being placed BELOW the ribbons. The other badge, on CZ's right side is the CJCS badge. However, a FOURTH badge, such as Air Assault or Pathfinder could be worn there. Again, a total of FOUR badges may be worn on blues in the AIR FORCE, I do not believe those same badges are authorized to be worn that way in CAP.
This may be because the USAF does not use specialty track awards which count as 2 of the allowable badge count, so it could be said we do, in fact, wear four.
Or five, if you have a command badge.
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 PMJump Wings are considered an aeronautical rating and will take precedence over all others so you would wear them above your AA badge or CAB, and below any CAP aeronautical wings.
GroundHawg, have you ever seen an Air Force regulation classifying jump wings as an aeronautical rating? I wore jump wings as a young Air Force Officer, and I'd hear people say that from time to time, but I never saw it in writing. They certainly weren't mandatory like aeronautical ratings and because jump wings don't qualify you to do anything on an air crew it wouldn't make much sense.
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 PMAlso, any foreign awards are worn AFTER CAP awards so if you have MFO, NATO, UN, etc.. they go on last.
I hope 39-1 was revised to clarify this. In the last version I saw, it literally contradicted itself, listing foreign awards above CAP awards in one part of the manual and below them in another part of the manual.
You're absolutely right of course, CAP awards originate from the United States and should be worn ABOVE awards from foreign countries. I certainly plan to wear my NATO medal below my CAP awards.
That wear pattern (foreign awards below CAP awards) has been that way since I've been in CAP.
The manual is written and reviewed by people, and even after multiple eyeballs on text, they still miss some things like inconsistencies. It happens. There is a practical limit to the number of changes you can make to that particular manual regulation due to the review process. It works fine for most regs, not so fine for that one. I had a nice chat with Colonel O'Neil at the Winter Command Council meeting in February (right before the reg dropped publicly) and the iterative nature of reviews to changes and corrections, even simple typographic or formatting changes, just adds months to the process.
Sometimes we just have to use a little sense to divine the commander's intent. If foreign awards have been worn after CAP awards previously and basically forever, then the reg comes out and one place says "after" and the other says "before," you're probably safe not running right out and switching up your ribbon rack to conform to the "out of family" (to borrow a NASA/aerospace engineering term) method.
Its like when ABUs were first authorized: the wear instructions for cloth grade and badges did not directly specify the long-standing "max 1/8" blue cloth showing" rule for ABUs. A number of people immediately assumed that, unlike BDUs, ABU insignia was meant to be folded and sewn in a completely different fashion than BDUs.
(I didn't help that our partners at Vanguard started selling the ABU grade insignia as individual squares with merrowed borders, leading some inexperienced folks to assume "Oooh, just sew it right on like a patch.. me likely!")
(https://i.imgur.com/eXMkSFU.jpg)
It took a little bit to convince people that we weren't going to suddenly veer wildly from a long standing rule (and wildly away from the insignia wear pattern of our parent service) just because "max 1/8" blue cloth showing" didn't make its way in to the wear instructions.
Quote from: tjhumphries on April 25, 2020, 07:25:44 AMQuote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 PMAlso, any foreign awards are worn AFTER CAP awards so if you have MFO, NATO, UN, etc.. they go on last.
I hope 39-1 was revised to clarify this. In the last version I saw, it literally contradicted itself, listing foreign awards above CAP awards in one part of the manual and below them in another part of the manual.
You're absolutely right of course, CAP awards originate from the United States and should be worn ABOVE awards from foreign countries. I certainly plan to wear my NATO medal below my CAP awards.
I always found this strange, that we can wear
Foreign decorations all the time but you can't wear any one of our
own State's Awards when on Title 10.
A silly rule I wish the Armed Forces, CAP and USCGAux would all do away with.
NIN, excellent points Sir.
I looked at the brand new CAPM 39-1 yesterday and I was impressed! What a professional document and what a tremendous improvement over the late '90s version I'm used to. The illustrations look great, and the guidance is very clear. I'm a fan.
The order of precedence for foreign awards is very clearly stated in the new manual and it doesn't contradict itself.
It's the CAPR 39-1 now too. Only took 50 plus years to get it "right".
Quote from: tjhumphries on April 25, 2020, 07:22:19 AMQuote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 PMJump Wings are considered an aeronautical rating and will take precedence over all others so you would wear them above your AA badge or CAB, and below any CAP aeronautical wings.
GroundHawg, have you ever seen an Air Force regulation classifying jump wings as an aeronautical rating? I wore jump wings as a young Air Force Officer, and I'd hear people say that from time to time, but I never saw it in writing. They certainly weren't mandatory like aeronautical ratings and because jump wings don't qualify you to do anything on an air crew it wouldn't make much sense.
Technically parachute or MFF are not aeronautical ratings, but, the badges are issued with aeronautical orders/memos and listed alongside aeronautical badges in the uniform manual.
They fall under AFI11-402 7.7. Publishing Aeronautical Orders for Parachutists
and then:
Then under AFI36-2903 9.1.2., "Aeronautical, space, cyberspace and missile operations badges are equal in precedence.
When awarded the aeronautical, space, missile operations, and cyberspace badges, wear the
badge that reflects current job or billet in the highest position. Parachutist wings are optional;
however, when worn will be placed above an occupational badge or below a chaplain,
aeronautical, space, or cyberspace badge. All other occupational badges are optional.
Fork.
Done.