Internet Safety for a Safety Briefing...?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Last meeting, our Internet person was told to give a talk about Internet Safety as part of the monthly Safety Briefing. Maybe I am being a jackass, but I am arguing that Internet Safety should not be included with Safety.

I am not shooting down the briefing. It was an excellent presentation and is something that needs to be covered in any organization that uses the Internet.

Just that if Internet Safety was intended to be covered by Safety, it would have been included as one of the topics at Nat HQ/Safety or at the Region/SE. I only saw the Northeast Region/SE link.

My unit/SE has been mum on the topic I started among my colleagues. The one defending mixing both is the Deputy for Seniors.

What do you guys feel...?

[SarDragon]

Does the lecture help prevent harm to the members?

Is the topic relevant to living in today's society?

Was the lecture well received by the majority of the audience?

If there are one or more Yes answers, then I'd say it's OK to include it.

[PHall]

Last meeting, our Internet person was told to give a talk about Internet Safety as part of the monthly Safety Briefing. Maybe I am being a jackass, but I am arguing that Internet Safety should not be included with Safety.

I am not shooting down the briefing. It was an excellent presentation and is something that needs to be covered in any organization that uses the Internet.

Just that if Internet Safety was intended to be covered by Safety, it would have been included as one of the topics at Nat HQ/Safety or at the Region/SE. I only saw the Northeast Region/SE link.

My unit/SE has been mum on the topic I started among my colleagues. The one defending mixing both is the Deputy for Seniors.

What do you guys feel...?

I feel you're making a big deal out of nothing. Internet safety is probably more interesting and relevent then some of the other safety briefings I've been forced to suffer through lately.

[Woodsy]

Heck, I think it's a great idea! 

[a2capt]

Well.. then.. we've had that topic rotated in a couple times over the last 3 years of this safety stuff.

Guess you would have hated it, too.

OTOH, ya know, I could swear that cyber-safety has been brought up in something I've read from NHQ, at least as many times.

With that said, I think it's a very relevant area to cover, especially with younger members of society.

[krnlpanick]

As someone who has had dealings with situations where basic internet safety has not been discussed I think in today's world that this is a paramount topic and just as important as knowing what to do if there is lightning or any other safety topic. I plan on giving one of these myself and I would encourage anyone else to do the same.

[Pylon]

There's little regulation on the topics of safety briefings.  The topic of Internet safety would be fully permitted under the regulations, and given its relavency to everybody who uses a computer I'd say it's also useful.  Probably more useful than some of the briefings on things like stringing Christmas lights and to go indoors during a violent lightning storm; at least some of that is obvious whereas Internet security and safety is not obvious to everyone.     Finally, not all safety briefings have to pertain to operations within CAP; they oftentimes cover topics from our life outside of CAP -- this is just one example.

[lordmonar]

Why do you think that Internet Safety should not be a concern for the safety program?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot...but I am trying to follow your logic and find out how you are compartmentalising your "topics".

As much time as we waste on safety as it is.....yes I am one of those guys.......at least someone is thinking to expand our safety box to include some freash topics.

[bflynn]

I think safety briefings ought to focus on what we do as an organization.  If part of our job is to work on the internet, to surf web sites, etc...then an internet safety briefing would be entirely appropriate.  If it's not part of our job, then it comes across as intrusive into someone's life outside CAP.

The other point I'll make - is that for every "toaster safety" brief we have, it's a lost opportunity to have a brief on a topic that actually improves operational safety.

[a2capt]

Heh.. yes. There is that angle, too. Did they bore you to death, clobber you with PowerPoint, lock you in the room for a half hour while they rambled on about it?

Did you get credit for the safety briefing? ... would you have been there anyway and done some other topic? Who cares!

It's done, for another month.

Really. We try to do stuff that is everyday useful. Not cookie cutter, read the Sentinel .. yay.

[Luis R. Ramos]

This is for specific questions from Lordmonar and Pylon.

I have read the regs covering Safety, the pamphlets for the Safety and ITO, I have seen Wing and Region websites. There is no mention of Internet Safety. And despite Pylon's assertion that "Internet Safety is fully allowable," I would like to see what is he reading, Regulation, section or page number, that I did not.

I have been Squadron Safety Officer, and Group Assistant Safety. So I have read all regs several times.

Those of you that are stating "this is worth discussing," that is NOT what I question. It SHOULD be required of all organizations. Just that it was not part of Safety.

My logic? In another forum (uniforms) I said that the Gig line is enforceable but not listed, someone stated "don't go that path." Now I am being told to "go down the path that because it is not listed but should be included."

Thank you for all, maybe I am wrong, but if I am, then I believe the attitude of a few more SE should be shaken up.

Flyer333555

[jeders]

This is for specific questions from Lordmonar and Pylon.

I have read the regs covering Safety, the pamphlets for the Safety and ITO, I have seen Wing and Region websites. There is no mention of Internet Safety. And despite Pylon's assertion that "Internet Safety is fully allowable," I would like to see what is he reading, Regulation, section or page number, that I did not.

I have been Squadron Safety Officer, and Group Assistant Safety. So I have read all regs several times.

Those of you that are stating "this is worth discussing," that is NOT what I question. It SHOULD be required of all organizations. Just that it was not part of Safety.

My logic? In another forum (uniforms) I said that the Gig line is enforceable but not listed, someone stated "don't go that path." Now I am being told to "go down the path that because it is not listed but should be included."

Thank you for all, maybe I am wrong, but if I am, then I believe the attitude of a few more SE should be shaken up.

Flyer333555

Can you tell me what reg requires us to discuss lightning awareness?
How about the reg that says we should talk about downed power lines?
Barbeque safety?

Yes those are all fairly obvious because the involve potential physical harm. But where does it say that we can't talk about keeping data safe?

[Eclipse]

Internet Safety is a critical issue for our cadets - 50% of our membership, and, sadly, somewhat of an issue for our senior member population. 

I agree wholeheartedly that it should be included as either a safety briefing or a CDI session for the cadets.  On the senior side of the house, proper use of specific tools, and general information about what not to do on the net is probably a good idea as well.

It's hard to comment if a specific briefing is appropriate for the specific audience without seeing what was included.  For example if it touts any internet scams about PC scans, or overly worries people about DNSChanger next week, etc., and I've sat through plenty of videos on the proper use of de-icing boots, which isn't of much value to CAP members, but the topic of internet safety is by no means something that should be verboten.

Just that if Internet Safety was intended to be covered by Safety, it would have been included as one of the topics at Nat HQ/Safety or at the Region/SE. I only saw the Northeast Region/SE link.

Those topics are suggestions, not all-inclusive prescriptions, and are intended to be built-upon, changed, or not used at all in favor of other more relevant topics.

A briefing in high summer about how to properly clean your waterbottle or hydopack would be just as appropriate, and probably more relevant.

[lordmonar]

This is for specific questions from Lordmonar and Pylon.

I have read the regs covering Safety, the pamphlets for the Safety and ITO, I have seen Wing and Region websites. There is no mention of Internet Safety. And despite Pylon's assertion that "Internet Safety is fully allowable," I would like to see what is he reading, Regulation, section or page number, that I did not.

I have been Squadron Safety Officer, and Group Assistant Safety. So I have read all regs several times.

Those of you that are stating "this is worth discussing," that is NOT what I question. It SHOULD be required of all organizations. Just that it was not part of Safety.

My logic? In another forum (uniforms) I said that the Gig line is enforceable but not listed, someone stated "don't go that path." Now I am being told to "go down the path that because it is not listed but should be included."

Thank you for all, maybe I am wrong, but if I am, then I believe the attitude of a few more SE should be shaken up.

Flyer333555

Just because a class of theats is not covered by the regs...does not mean it can't be covered by safety training.
I agree that safety training should focus on our mission related safety.....for the most part.....but that does not mean we can season our training with some other RELEVENT training.

I mean here in NVWG......we don't really need Hurrican safety....but you gulf coast and east coast wings could use that.  While the Tonado alley wings could use tornado safety....again something not really needed here.

By all means....let's keep the safety training relevent to your unit and AOR.....but just because it is not in the reg is not a reason to look at other safety topics.

[lordmonar]

Internet Safety is a critical issue for our cadets - 50% of our membership, and, sadly, somewhat of an issue for our senior member population. 

I agree wholeheartedly that it should be included as either a safety briefing or a CDI session for the cadets.  On the senior side of the house, proper use of specific tools, and general information about what not to do on the net is probably a good idea as well.

It's hard to comment if a specific briefing is appropriate for the specific audience without seeing what was included.  For example if it touts any internet scams about PC scans, or overly worries people about DNSChanger next week, etc., and I've sat through plenty of videos on the proper use of de-icing boots, which isn't of much value to CAP members, but the topic of internet safety is by no means something that should be verboten.

I may disagree with your "critical" assessment.....but I agree that it is certainly relevent to our cadets.  I HIGHLY disagree with making a manditory topic....we have enough of them as it is.

[Eclipse]

I HIGHLY disagree with making a manditory topic....we have enough of them as it is.

I agree, I didn't mean to sound like it should be mandatory - just something on the list of suggestions.

[Pylon]

This is for specific questions from Lordmonar and Pylon.

I have read the regs covering Safety, the pamphlets for the Safety and ITO, I have seen Wing and Region websites. There is no mention of Internet Safety. And despite Pylon's assertion that "Internet Safety is fully allowable," I would like to see what is he reading, Regulation, section or page number, that I did not.

It's actually dead clear in the regulation and from the National Safety program that Internet safety is an allowable topic, both explicitly and implicitly.

Explicitly, the CAPR 62-1, CAP Safety Responsibilities & Procedures says that there are no restrictions on topic.  Section 4 (Safety Education Requirements), paragraph d (on page 6, since you'd like page numbers) says without any ambiguity: "d. There are no restrictions to the topics being presented, as long as the topic maintains relevance to CAP's mission scope as determined by the unit commander and/or safety officer."    Civil Air Patrol has Internet Operations, since we have a regulation covering that, CAPR 110-1, which is specifically titled "Internet Operations".  Furthermore, the safety regulation specifically says that the determination of whether or not a topic falls within CAP's mission scope is not up to us, armchair generals, or Internet forum members.  That determination rests solely with the unit commander and/or safety officer of the unit giving the presentation.

Implicitly, National Headquarters further provides tacit approval for Internet safety topics because one of the national modules in E-Services that NHQ developed and uses for safety currency, "Geotagging Safety," is specifically about the safety of sharing certain types of information and files over the Internet.  Even further, more than some of the content is directly about personal, non-CAP-context use and safety.

I can't see a single shred of evidence or documentation that suggests anything other than Internet safety is a perfectly acceptable and approved topic for CAP safety briefings.  Can you find a single line of anything to suggest the contrary?

[Майор Хаткевич]

We live in a world where technology is progressing faster than the subject matter experts can keep up.

A lot of members have smartphones, cadets included. Say you are on a mission, take a picture, and upload it to your twitter @CAPSARESDUDE account.

Say it's a Fossett type, high profile mission. You come up on the scene, snap a picture and say "we found him!". I guarantee that within an hour there will be three news choppers hovering over the scene because they can pull that information from your picture data.

That's just one quick concept.

[Woodsy]

Look at it from an OPSEC standpoint...  As a PIO, I've ran across a fellow CAP member and facebook friend that had sensitive information posted to their personal facebook page more than once, including on some "hush-hush" HLS and CD missions.  Internet safety included OPSEC, and is extremely important.

CAP safety has reached such a ridiculous level.  The regs require a 15 minute briefing each month.  the local squadron that I most often attend for my safety briefing has a safety officer that seems to talk to 45 minutes about stuff I either learned in kindergarten or have no need to know.  I time him, get up and walk out of the room after 15 minutes (rude, I know, but done so in protest) and walk back in when he's done. 

[Eclipse]

Look at it from an OPSEC standpoint...  As a PIO, I've ran across a fellow CAP member and facebook friend that had sensitive information posted to their personal facebook page more than once, including on some "hush-hush" HLS and CD missions.  Internet safety included OPSEC, and is extremely important.

Last Eval, we received congratulations on our grade from people who read about it on FB before CAP-USAF had announced it in-house.

[JeffDG]

If anyone is looking for absolutely first-rate material for an Internet Safety program:

http://www.packet-level.com/kids/

If you ever get the chance to see/hear Laura present this material, take it...she's a first rate security expert who spends a ton of free time doing the stuff for parents and kids.

[Critical AOA]

I agree it is a good subject for cadets if it is aimed at avoiding meeting bad actors. Anything we can do to keep kids safe is good.  I am less enthused if it is aimed at how not to get a virus on your PC.  That really isn't a safety issue. 

Most of the monthly safety briefings that I have attended had nothing to do with aviation safety.  Some of the topics were avoiding heat injuries in the summer, flood water safety, how not to get hit by lightning and the like.  All worthwhile subjects indeed but I would like to see more aviation related topics. 

[Private Investigator]

CAP safety has reached such a ridiculous level.  The regs require a 15 minute briefing each month. 

That is because some Squadrons in the past never had safety briefings, EVER. If you remember back just five years ago when the Unit did quarterly Safety Reports to document what they did? I was inspecting one Unit that obviously just pencil whipped that report because they did such a bad job at fudging on the report. I doubt they had a safety briefing on Memorial Day, I doubt they had a safety briefing on a Sunday (no activity that day), I doubt they had a safety briefing on a Tuesday, they meet on Mondays.

Safety is common sense but occassionally you have to remind people to use common sense. 

[AirDX]

Most of the monthly safety briefings that I have attended had nothing to do with aviation safety.  Some of the topics were avoiding heat injuries in the summer, flood water safety, how not to get hit by lightning and the like.  All worthwhile subjects indeed but I would like to see more aviation related topics.

That's because most of our members aren't pilots.  I've been doing safety briefings for three different organizations in CAP for about 3 years.  At each the percentage of active pilots ranges from 0 to 10%.  I try really hard to give relevant, interesting safety briefs.  If I got up in front of 30 cadets and 10 senior members, not a single one a pilot, and started lecturing on the the dangers of hydroplaning ("blah, blah, 9 times the square root of the tire pressure, blah, blah") they'd all be snoozing in 30 seconds.  I can talk about stuff like thunderstorm avoidance to group like that, but only in very general terms; it becomes more of an AE presentation at that point.

Too, you have to look at where the risks are.  We have a problem with hangar rash.  We don't break a lot of airplanes otherwise.  We do injure people in falls, in heat injuries, and during PT.  We do have people with medical conditions, in some cases unreported, keeling over at CAP activities.  That just covers the risks during CAP activities.  Outside of CAP, we face all the same threats everyone else does: fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.  I hear people (here on CT anyway, not so much in the real world) complain about getting safety briefings about those types of things, "they have nothing to do with CAP".  Guess what, Bubba, if you are killed in a tornado, or falling off a ladder, or by a downed power line, or whatever, you are not around to do your CAP job, so your behavior outside of CAP affects mission readiness inside of CAP.

Therein lies my bottom line with safety briefings: if "it", whatever "it" is, will injure you, and/or prevent you from performing for CAP in some fashion, or cause CAP material loss, "it" is a good topic for a safety briefing.

The challenge is to come up with a topic and make it relevant every month.  It's not easy.  Some of you complainers should try it.  If you are not happy with your safety officer's product, come up with a briefing and volunteer to give it at your next monthly safety education session.

Some of the topics are gimmes - June is the start of hurricane season here in the central Pacific, so guess what I talk about every May?  October is fire safety month.  Last October I talked about smoke detectors, spurred by testing mine and my neighbor's, and finding a 40% failure rate.  Did you know that smoke detectors have expiration dates?  10 years in service for most of the common ones, and they are supposed to be replaced.  The manufacture date is stamped inside.  I did not know that until I started working on my 15 minutes of fame for October '11.

I do talk about aviation stuff, but again, it needs to be relevant to the observers, scanners or laymen in the group.  Getting too technical excludes people and leaves them feeling confused and unhappy, too.

As a FAASTeam representative, I encourage pilots to participate in the WINGS program.  There are a load of online safety training modules, and taking them through the FAASTeam website will auto-populate them in CAP e-Services, giving you safety credit for the month.  Attending a local FAA safety meeting does the same thing (if you've registered your CAP ID on the WINGS website).  So there's an outlet for the pilot that wants more flight-oriented safety stuff, and it counts for CAP.  Your Form 5 plus one single online training module is enough to get you the Basic WINGS award.  It's a good deal.

There are lots of ways to skin the cat, and lots of different ways to look at safety.  Keep an open mind and a positive attitude.   

[Woodsy]

Most of the monthly safety briefings that I have attended had nothing to do with aviation safety.  Some of the topics were avoiding heat injuries in the summer, flood water safety, how not to get hit by lightning and the like.  All worthwhile subjects indeed but I would like to see more aviation related topics.

As a FAASTeam representative,

Ahh, you must know Obie! 

[Private Investigator]

AirDX was spot on.

Thank you sir