Nevada Green Flag West Squadron

[PHall]

We just had a fatal accident here in SoCal where two CA ANG UAV pilots were killed while performing acrobatics in the Yak-52 one of them owned.
From what I have been told by some friends in that unit the pilots are encouraged to fly on the "outside" to keep their pilot skills sharp.

[Short Field]

I was told that the squadron was suppose to be limited to active/reserve military but ended up with a lot of non-military pilots transferring into it (GOBs) from other Las Vegas area squadrons.   They wanted a new squadron so they would not be pressured to do any ES training or get ES qualifications.  Rumint is members of the squadron will not have to wear a CAP uniform.  I am getting this third and fourth hand from some very PO'ed people.

[FARRIER]

I was told that the squadron was suppose to be limited to active/reserve military but ended up with a lot of non-military pilots transferring into it (GOBs) from other Las Vegas area squadrons.   They wanted a new squadron so they would not be pressured to do any ES training or get ES qualifications.  Rumint is members of the squadron will not have to wear a CAP uniform.  I am getting this third and fourth hand from some very PO'ed people.

I'm not understanding the GOB acronym?

[SarDragon]

Not an acronym, rather an initialism - pronounced letter by letter, G-O-B, standing for Good Olde Boys. It's generally seen as pejorative.

[MikeD]

We just had a fatal accident here in SoCal where two CA ANG UAV pilots were killed while performing acrobatics in the Yak-52 one of them owned.
From what I have been told by some friends in that unit the pilots are encouraged to fly on the "outside" to keep their pilot skills sharp.

CA ANG has UAVs?   What type and flying out of where?  I thought the only mission flights were out of Beale for Global Hawk, plus assorted production sites and test flights in the Edwards/Palmdale and China Lake areas?

[lordmonar]

We just had a fatal accident here in SoCal where two CA ANG UAV pilots were killed while performing acrobatics in the Yak-52 one of them owned.
From what I have been told by some friends in that unit the pilots are encouraged to fly on the "outside" to keep their pilot skills sharp.

CA ANG has UAVs?   What type and flying out of where?  I thought the only mission flights were out of Beale for Global Hawk, plus assorted production sites and test flights in the Edwards/Palmdale and China Lake areas?

CANG, NYANG, NDANG, TXANG and one AFRES squadron fly MQ-1s.

[blackrain]

I was told that the squadron was suppose to be limited to active/reserve military but ended up with a lot of non-military pilots transferring into it (GOBs) from other Las Vegas area squadrons.   They wanted a new squadron so they would not be pressured to do any ES training or get ES qualifications.  Rumint is members of the squadron will not have to wear a CAP uniform.  I am getting this third and fourth hand from some very PO'ed people.

Do CAP regs permit restricting membership/uniform policies in that manner? I know things can potentially happen under the table but can they be done that way officially?

[RiverAux]

There is something allowing flights to be made without uniforms based the wishes of the requesting agency.  I don't recall that clause being limited to CD work even though that is what it is for.  So, if AF wanted to ask, it could work for the actual missions.  Wouldn't get them out of having to wear uniforms to certain other CAP activities though. 

[PHall]

We just had a fatal accident here in SoCal where two CA ANG UAV pilots were killed while performing acrobatics in the Yak-52 one of them owned.
From what I have been told by some friends in that unit the pilots are encouraged to fly on the "outside" to keep their pilot skills sharp.

CA ANG has UAVs?   What type and flying out of where?  I thought the only mission flights were out of Beale for Global Hawk, plus assorted production sites and test flights in the Edwards/Palmdale and China Lake areas?

163rd Reconnaissance Wing, March ARB. The headquarters and the control center is at March while the aircraft are flown out of the Southern California Logistics Airport (aka George AFB) near Victorville.
The 163rd is the Air Guard Schoolhouse for the MQ-1/MQ-9. They take some of the load off of the shoulders the 432nd at Creech AFB.

[blackrain]

There is something allowing flights to be made without uniforms based the wishes of the requesting agency.  I don't recall that clause being limited to CD work even though that is what it is for.  So, if AF wanted to ask, it could work for the actual missions.  Wouldn't get them out of having to wear uniforms to certain other CAP activities though.

Wow. I somewhat understand the CD rationale. But when we're deployed downrange we have to wear a uniform with our name on it where interaction with less than respectable people is possible on a daily basis. Of course they don't have to wear a uniform 3000+ feet over Bicycle Lake at NTC. Yea that makes sense. 

[lordmonar]

I'm a little too close and on the wrong side of this argument.

I will say though...is that National is aware and as far as I know approves of everything that is happening.  So there is no use in yelling about regulations. 

[Gunner C]

I'm a little too close and on the wrong side of this argument.

I will say though...is that National is aware and as far as I know approves of everything that is happening.  So there is no use in yelling about regulations.

Yep, double standards are better than no standards at all.

[Flying Pig]

We just had a fatal accident here in SoCal where two CA ANG UAV pilots were killed while performing acrobatics in the Yak-52 one of them owned.
From what I have been told by some friends in that unit the pilots are encouraged to fly on the "outside" to keep their pilot skills sharp.

CA ANG has UAVs?   What type and flying out of where?  I thought the only mission flights were out of Beale for Global Hawk, plus assorted production sites and test flights in the Edwards/Palmdale and China Lake areas?

Yeah....and I was VERY close to joining it as a sensor operator until I found out it was 1 yr OJT after school and 4 day drills.

The issue with not wearing uniforms for CD isnt about while your flying, its about after you've landed and your away from the plane.   The surveillance plane I fly, I dont wear anything work related for that reason.  Ive had people walk into the FBO looking for the pilot.  I just sit there and shrug my shoulders.  The guy at the airport I am at the most plays the game right along with me.  Usually, they are just curious about the gear hanging off of it. 
Unless its someone from bosshawks posse!

However, I dont like the idea that people are joining CAP soley as an "admin" check the box measure. 

[PHall]

We had a bunch of people join CAP back in the 90's just so they could fly for cheap at Military Aeroclubs. So this is nothing new.

[Short Field]

My understanding is that they just don't want to be bothered with wearing a CAP uniform and would rather wear a USAF flight suit - with USAF grade and insignia and not CAP grade and insignia.  This is NOT about mission requirements but about letting people fly CAP airplanes without having to meet the CAP "BS" training requirements.  I just really wonder why they were letting non-military CAP pilots transfer to the squadron.

[PA Guy]

^^^^^
Double standards at their finest.

[Flying Pig]

We had a bunch of people join CAP back in the 90's just so they could fly for cheap at Military Aeroclubs. So this is nothing new.

People join CAP everyday looking to only fly and not be bothered with anything else.  We just havn't created squadrons to support them.  Look, they are Air Force Pilots and personnel.  A far cry from Joe Citizen looking for cheap flight time.  And I would venture to guess every one of them would make an outstanding CAP member were they to join on their own.  I just wonder why the Air Force chose to involve CAP in this.  You mean to tell me the Air Force cant maintain their own C182 and find a couple full time pilots to fly it?  Why involve CAP in this mission?  It almost seems like it was set up to fail from the start.
What irritates me is that CAP should have just come out and said it.  Not have them join a made up Squadron so they are "volunteers" on paper.  Next thing we will see is this amazing new Squadron being featured in the Volunteer magazine covering how all of these citizen volunteers represent CAP at its finest.  It should be interesting showing up down their for the training.  So I guess just keep in mind we are the outsiders guests and have fun with whatever they allow us to do.

[blackrain]

I'm curious if said AF personnel will be in a duty or leave status when they participate. I think the AF has pretty liberal leave policies for CAP participation already IIRC.

I'm sure from a funding perspective CAP is a great way to keep the UAV crews flying something by "flying under the radar" from a money perspective.......No pun intended

[blackrain]

Does anybody know if there is an equivalent Specialized Senior Squadron for Green Flag East  over in Louisiana? On a side note does anyone know of any CAP squadrons commanded by an AD (not retired) O-5 or above anywhere in the US? I would imagine it would be rare but I don't know.

[Al Sayre]

^^
Not that I have heard, and I have several members of my Wing and Squadron participating, although LA is in SWR vs SER.