Transparent Overlays for Sectional Charts

Started by Major Carrales, November 06, 2006, 06:51:47 AM

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Major Carrales

Some of our aviators noted when a visiting CAP pilot was preparing a sortie he had a transparent overlay to put over the sectional chart that was a "grid."

Where can these be purchased or would they have to be made?  The ability to notate information without the destruction of the sectional woudl be good for us.

"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

CFI_Ed

How large an overlay was it?  It might not be too difficult to make a sheet covering 30nm by 30 nm, maybe 60nm by 60nm with a generic CAP grid layed out.  Of course for those of us who are challenged by drawing straight lines...  ;D

Ed A.
Ed Angala, Lt Col, CAP
Oklahoma Wing/DO

SarDragon

But that's the whole problem - only the lines going N-S are straight.

I tried making a rough transparent grid a while back, using an LA sectional for starters, and then trying it on a SF map, and it didn't line all too well. Put it on a back burner and didn't mess with it too much after that. The one I tried was for all of one side.

Breifly revisiting just the LA map, I find that the top of a 30 second x 30 second "square" from the bottom of the southern side is 1/8" wider that the top of a "square" at the top of the northern side. There is about a 1/16" difference between the top and bottom widths of a single "square".

Therefore a small transparent overlay would be useful only on "squares" at the same latitude.

YMMV.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Major Carrales

I guess it works best for local matters.

As had been said at the portal, the skill of gridding a section is a must.  We just sometimes mark our sectionals so much that they lack become cluttered and more of a hinderance.

Thanks to all that have replied.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

lordmonar

Quote from: Major Carrales on November 08, 2006, 08:23:12 PM
I guess it works best for local matters.

As had been said at the portal, the skill of gridding a section is a must.  We just sometimes mark our sectionals so much that they lack become cluttered and more of a hinderance.

Thanks to all that have replied.

I was talking with an ES guy the other day who told me, there was a push to change the way we grid our sectionals.

We would still use the 15 minute boxes and still break them up into four 7.5 minutes letter boxes...but we would not number them the same way.

Instead of saying....go to grid 463 on the Las Vegas sectional you would give the lat/long of the lower left corner of the grid (grid 115 deg 30' by 35 deg 45').

This way you do not have to pre number or even pre grid your charts.  You can take a new chart at the mission base and grid out only the boxes you need and you don't have to refer to any cross reference charts.  It also makes gridding other types of maps easer.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

SarDragon

That "new" method has been around for at least four years, but I haven't seen in wide use. Until everyone gets on the bandwagon, I think we're stick with the numbered boxes.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

DNall

New system? I don't think I've ever flown with a fully gridded sectional. As was mentioned, it's just oo much marking over needed details. They give you a number & you say 'where' they point, you grid said spot & go flying. The only time I've seena fully gridded chart was at a abse where they were using the numbering system to pass data to AFRCC, who I'm sure has it on a nice computer program that gids it for you & projects on a plasma screen or something with little moving icons or something - can you hear the envy in my typing.  :)

KyCAP

Reading the descriptions of the two systems spoken about in the previous threads.  I do not belive that either are currently supposed to be used in CAP.

A 7.5' CAP grid should be described as 38084ABD for example.

From the CAP.GOV operations section: http://www.cap.gov/documents/u_8604062763024134566.pdf

The grid overlay being looked for in this thread http://www.cap.gov/documents/u_5740730940170607584.pdf

For those interested, the rationale and methodology for how to do this is taught at the National Emergency Services Academy at Camp Atterbury, IN.   The reference material for the course can be found here: http://www.cap-es.net/NESA%20MAS/NESA%20MAS.htm.  This is reflected on the NHQ Operations Web site here: http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/operations/operations_training/aircrew_flightline/

A prepared aircrew should have a complete set of gridded sectionals for reference in their GO KIT along with a good road map for communication to supporting Ground Teams.  The DeLorme Gazetteer is what we use here in Kentucky.

Just some thoughts.

I am a qualified IC and have ran about a dozen AFRCC taskings this year...

Capt. Russ Hensley

Maj. Russ Hensley, CAP
IC-2 plus all the rest. :)
Kentucky Wing

SarDragon

Quote from: kycap on November 15, 2006, 05:28:45 AM
Reading the descriptions of the two systems spoken about in the previous threads.  I do not belive that either are currently supposed to be used in CAP.

A 7.5' CAP grid should be described as 38084ABD for example.

Link 1 -> From the CAP.GOV operations section: http://www.cap.gov/documents/u_8604062763024134566.pdf

Link 2 -> The grid overlay being looked for in this thread http://www.cap.gov/documents/u_5740730940170607584.pdf

For those interested, the rationale and methodology for how to do this is taught at the National Emergency Services Academy at Camp Atterbury, IN.   The reference material for the course can be found here: Link 3 ->  http://www.cap-es.net/NESA%20MAS/NESA%20MAS.htm.  This is reflected on the NHQ Operations Web site here: Link 4 ->  http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/operations/operations_training/aircrew_flightline/

A prepared aircrew should have a complete set of gridded sectionals for reference in their GO KIT along with a good road map for communication to supporting Ground Teams.  The DeLorme Gazetteer is what we use here in Kentucky.

Just some thoughts.

I am a qualified IC and have ran about a dozen AFRCC taskings this year...

Capt. Russ Hensley

Actually, I've seen both methods in use. I'm not sure of any third method you might be referring to. Link 1 describes the new method. Link 2 shows the alphabetical subdivision sysytem used in both methods. Link 3 shows us both methods, devoting two slides to the old method, and then one for the new method. Link 4 takes us to a page leading us to Appendix 1: Gridding and CAP Grid System Handout, again putting the old method first in line, probably unintentionally. Still, a confusion factor is introduced.

I agree that using 038084ABD as a grid reference is better than the corresponding Cincinnati 114D, but as stated above there is much resistance to changing to the newer method.

YMMV
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

KyCAP

Two .. Three.. It was late when I tried counting...  Guess that is where Duty day comes from..
:)

Futher to complicate things.  Look at the AFRCC Form 122 for closing the mission.  It is in a decimal system that is in none of this discussion (I think)...


:)
Maj. Russ Hensley, CAP
IC-2 plus all the rest. :)
Kentucky Wing

lordmonar

Quote from: kycap on November 16, 2006, 01:17:46 AM
Two .. Three.. It was late when I tried counting...  Guess that is where Duty day comes from..
:)

Futher to complicate things.  Look at the AFRCC Form 122 for closing the mission.  It is in a decimal system that is in none of this discussion (I think)...


:)


That's because military uses UTM maps and the decimal grid system.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP