"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[RiverAux]

Its amusing that people are equating being obese (which is basically the cutoff between being allowed to wear the AF uniform and not under CAP regulations) with NOT being a 19 year old or model.  You can still be pretty overweight and wear the AF-style uniform.  Just because you're not 19 doesn't mean that you are obese. 

[NCRblues]

I am so sick of hearing "second class members who keep the organization running". There are plenty of members who wear the air force style that keep their little portion running, actually I'm sure there are more people in cap that wear the Air force style than corporate. If you are overweight, for whatever reason, than I am sorry, tough luck. When I go over the weight limit, I will make the switch and carry on like nothing has changed. I know this is going to make me out to be the bad guy, but no one ever said life was fair. You also say Air Force poster child likes it a bad thing. My apologies for keeping myself in shape and wanting to provide cap with a good appearance when in uniform. Unfortunately when you joined you agreed to follow caps rules, and the leadership decided it was better for cap as a whole not have the air force crawl up our !@#@$ again. Those of you that deny the air force is not happy with us are blind. The air force litteraly only deals with us because congress said they had to. Again there are those desk jockeys that monitor this site way too much, and treat others on here like dogs, that will say I am wrong, or some other wikipediaed word how I am stupid and that the air force does really care for us. *rolls eyes* This CSU debacle, is just a small glimpse into the horrors we are still facing from pineda and his cronies, and I just won't blame that time, also the continued politicking that runs RAMPENT through this organization. Wear the Grays and whites with pride, make that uniform look good. That is a choice you can make, or wear the polo, but don't drag those members who can wear the Air force style down with you in your lackluster view of the uniform situation. Pick up, move on and continue to make a difference where ever you are.

[AlphaSigOU]

Where I currently live and work (Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands) the only CAP uniform I put on (and only for special occasions such as Veterans' Day and Memorial Day) is the polo shirt and gray trousers combination. Until I get written authorization from NHQ CAP and the commanding officer of USAKA (U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll) - an Army colonel - to wear my uniform for off-duty activities I won't wear any other uniform combination, USAF style or corporate. I don't want to run afoul of any SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) problems; one of these days regulations may change and we might get an overseas cadet squadron on Kwaj, and I don't want to jinx the opportunity if it is offered in the near future.

[FW]

Obviously, this issue will not die.  I have a suggestion (probably an echo of some posts already).

Just give your opinion to your commander and make sure it goes up the chain to your wing/cc.
I've already talked to my "deputy" and, he informed me he will relay my thoughts on this subject to my "unit" commander.   I wonder what response I'll get?

I'm eagerly awaiting the winter NB meeting.  Maybe we'll learn something by the BoG meeting in about 10 days..... Oh, joy.

[AlphaSigOU]

Obviously, this issue will not die.  I have a suggestion (probably an echo of some posts already).

Just give your opinion to your commander and make sure it goes up the chain to your wing/cc.
I've already talked to my "deputy" and, he informed me he will relay my thoughts on this subject to my "unit" commander.   I wonder what response I'll get?

I'm eagerly awaiting the winter NB meeting.  Maybe we'll learn something by the BoG meeting in about 10 days..... Oh, joy.

Well said, sir! Until I'm directed to the contrary, I will 'salute and execute'. I don't particularly like losing the corporate blue but we all took an obligation to obey our superior officers in CAP.

[Eclipse]

I am not sure what you all are being offended by.

Obviously the idea escapes you that its unfair to expect volunteers to be treated fairly and equally for the work and effort they put into the same organization.

The guy who is 20-over H/W but is still putting in 20+ hours a week for CAP, flying O-rides, and sacrificing his time and treasure deserves to show off his plumage and bling the same as the guys who are under
the max.  Otherwise its the plumage and bling that should go.

Either its important or its not.  It should not be 1/2 measures in either direction.

Alienating the overweight members risks 30-40%(+) of the membership deciding they have better ways to spend their time, including similar organizations with much less "excitement" in the area of dress.  And before you say "meh, good riddance..."  bear in mind that this large percentage of members is also a large portion of your most active and engaged members - the ones actually running the show.  One only needs to flip through the volunteer to see how many corporate officers and people in charge all up and down the chain wear a corporate variant of one kind or another.

And that doesn't even include the far too many wearing the USAF-style uniforms who shouldn't be.  Start putting people on scales at meetings and see how long it is until yo no longer need to worry about uniforms or anything else.

Anything that devalues, or differentiates, one volunteer's accomplishments and time vs. another is a bad thing for any organization which lives and dies by those volunteers.

[Eclipse]

Where I currently live and work (Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands) the only CAP uniform I put on (and only for special occasions such as Veterans' Day and Memorial Day) is the polo shirt and gray trousers combination. Until I get written authorization from NHQ CAP and the commanding officer of USAKA (U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll) - an Army colonel - to wear my uniform for off-duty activities I won't wear any other uniform combination, USAF style or corporate. I don't want to run afoul of any SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) problems; one of these days regulations may change and we might get an overseas cadet squadron on Kwaj, and I don't want to jinx the opportunity if it is offered in the near future.

Is there an active unit there?  You're kind of a special case, regardless (as is anyone in a unit outside CONUS).

[cap235629]

I suggest everyone who wants their voices heard to break out the "Tongue and Quill" and send your memo through the chain of comand using the proper format IN WRITING. 

[NCRblues]

Alienating the overweight members risks 30-40%(+) of the membership deciding they have better ways to spend their time, including similar organizations with much less "excitement" in the area of dress.  And before you say "meh, good riddance..."  bear in mind that this large percentage of members is also a large portion of your most active and engaged members - the ones actually running the show.  One only needs to flip through the volunteer to see how many corporate officers and people in charge all up and down the chain wear a corporate variant of one kind or another.

I'm going to use one of your favorite lines eclipse. Cite please. Where did you get the 30-40% numbers? How do you know these members are the ones running things around here? Actually it's the opposite, most of the members around here that are active don't wear the CSU or the ones that did don't feel as you say Alienated by this move.

[cap235629]

This was in my email this morning. It's got Courter's name on it. Seems to be all we really need. According to the file, the Air Force has the right to approve any corporate uniforms as well.

I read this and as I think more and more, I get more and more angry.

If this is in fact from our National Commander, I would cry Hypocrite!

MG Courter is a former board member of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.  She is an advocate against discrimination for one group of people but advocates discriminating against 30-40% of the organization she has been elected to lead.  Also I would love for her to step on a scale!

Sorry, just a bit ticked off...........

[cap235629]

also, if you don't believe me about SDLN

http://www.sldn.org/blog/archives/sldn-board-member-achieves-milestone-for-women2/

[NCRblues]

So your argument that is she is a hypocrite is that she is on a legal defense board?  You don't think that if she could, she would allow everyone to be in air force blues? Of course she would but oh wait she can't, the AIR FORCE says no. This is not discrimination; this is the air force protecting its image, which they have every right to do. Pretty weak argument and taking a shot at her weight, way to go as a fellow officer. Tsk tsk

[cap235629]

taking a shot at her weight, way to go as a fellow officer. Tsk tsk

Just pointing out that those in glass houses......

If the regs are to be enforced, they are to be enforced at the top also

[Eclipse]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the organization mentioned.

Absolutely nothing, and the comparison is inappropriate.

[cap235629]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the organization mentioned.

Absolutely nothing, and the comparison is inappropriate.

Why because she advocates no discrimination on one hand yet purportedly promulgated a document that smacks of discrimination? I think it is relevant and appropriate to point this out.  Members who do not meet H/W DO IN FACT feel like they are treated as second class citizens and look to their leadership to RECTIFY the situation rather than FOSTER it. I was in no way taking a swipe at the SDLN or it's mission nor her affiliation, just the apparent paradox the affiliation seems to create in light of a document she supposedly authored.  You can't have it both ways.

[Hawk200]

If it's all about displaying the bling, here's an idea:

Standardize on a specific blue blazer, and specific gray pants for uniformity reasons. Allow ribbons and a badge or two on the blazer, use the black nameplate with rank on it. Keep the crest, or don't. Problem solved.

The blazer's appearance isn't really that much different from the AF service coat that McPeak brought in. It's basically a standard suit coat. We put ribbons, badges, stars, bars, birds and leaves on it already, and no one thinks it's bad looking.

Uses an existing uniform, just changes the rules a little for it. People in blazers get to wear decs. Even across the board.

[Pumbaa]

Well it looks by the link above that the MG is trying to work with a protected class.. Homosexuals... Weight is not a protected class.

I will be transferred to a ghost squadron soon as I relocated out of NY.  I am in serious debate if I am going to bother renewing my membership.  The quote below expresses my thoughts..

Anything that devalues, or differentiates, one volunteer's accomplishments and time vs. another is a bad thing for any organization which lives and dies by those volunteers.

[RiverAux]

The AF has been "discriminating" against those CAP volunteers that are overweight since the early 1980s, so this isn't anything new. 

[AlphaSigOU]

Where I currently live and work (Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands) the only CAP uniform I put on (and only for special occasions such as Veterans' Day and Memorial Day) is the polo shirt and gray trousers combination. Until I get written authorization from NHQ CAP and the commanding officer of USAKA (U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll) - an Army colonel - to wear my uniform for off-duty activities I won't wear any other uniform combination, USAF style or corporate. I don't want to run afoul of any SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) problems; one of these days regulations may change and we might get an overseas cadet squadron on Kwaj, and I don't want to jinx the opportunity if it is offered in the near future.

Is there an active unit there?  You're kind of a special case, regardless (as is anyone in a unit outside CONUS).

Nope. Working on getting a change to CAPR 35-4 to allow one in Kwaj (it's an Army post, but largely run by civilian contractors).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I will never fully know just how General Courter herself believes about this issue, so I'm not going to try, or level "discrimination" charges.  I am not happy about the way this has been handled either, but it is not "discrimination."  It would be discrimination if those who are outside H/W standards for the AF-type uniform were not allowed to be in CAP at all.

Plus, she is a Major General and I am a Captain, so I have to show her the respect due her rank and position as National CC.  I don't know her, I've never met her, but as a CAP officer I have to salute and execute just the same as any other CAP member.

You never know.  She may have intervened and said we (CAP) would give up this uniform ourselves to prevent direct action by the Air Force...remember the berry boards days?  And I've seen photos of the General wearing the CSU, so she's going to have to stop wearing hers too.

Having said that, there are aspects of the whole uniform kerfuffle that I don't get and probably never will...like how we are allowed to wear "U.S." cutouts which are definitely an Air Force item.

At this point, I wonder if there's any chance of a compromise, such as being allowed to wear the CSU service coat with the white/greys, without hard rank, and lose the black Army outerwear and go to the A-2 (I got mine for about $40 on Evilbay)?  It wouldn't look all that bad, especially if a standard cut and shade of trousers was decided upon, and some form of headgear.  That way, those who have shelled out for the service coat won't be completely SOL cash-wise.

I'm not going to waste my time taking complaints about the CSU being gone up the chain, but the kind of compromise that I've mentioned might be a possibility.