"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[ol'fido]

I'd like to have two armies: One for display with lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering generals, and dear little regimental officers who would be deeply concerned over their colonel's piles, an Army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country. The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflaged uniforms, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the Army in which I should like to fight. – Jean Larteguy, The Centurions

[Gunner C]

I'd like to have two armies: One for display with lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering generals, and dear little regimental officers who would be deeply concerned over their colonel's piles, an Army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country. The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflaged uniforms, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the Army in which I should like to fight. – Jean Larteguy, The Centurions

I've always hated that quote.  When I was a young NCO in a black unit, I thought it fit.  But after becoming a senior NCO and then an officer, I realized that both the guy covered with mud in a cammie uniform had to be able to sell his skills to those who made the decisions by dressing up in fancy uniforms, showing off his ribbons and badges, and convincing them that services he was offering were the only logical course of action.  IOW:

• The mission is the brief
• Before the decision is made, it's not how you play, it's how you look.

[billford1]

I'm pretty convinced that the USAF either approved or accepted the blue TPU/CSU uniform that was introduced in 2006. They could have deliberated and just said "NO" but it appears that the answer was "Ok".  The uniform was introduced and modified a little to make some folks happy.  When I saw the introduction of the TPU/CSU it seemed like there was an upgrade to the Corporate Uniform in an effort to look more unified and professional. I bought the blue slacks and the blue name tag. I don't know when they modified the eligibility standard to exclude those of us with beards but it was disappointing. I've just continued to wear the gray slacks but I've seen the numbers of members wearing the new uniform increasing. Many of those folks also wear the AF uniform as they choose. The one I like the best is a retired AF Col. What I understand is that there some AF people who of late have seen some who wear the blue Corporate Uniform and are uncomfortable with how those members have looked and acted. Many CAP Members who wear the CSU have no military training or experience. The fact remains that the USAF either accepted the uniform or allowed it but nonetheless after 3 years the TPU/CSU has taken hold. If there are some in the AF who are disturbed by this uniform their issues should be dealt with in a positive way. If CAP members are on a Military installation they should be counseled about wearing the uniform or a uniform choice should be made by the Military Base Authority for the CAP members there. If the uniform is worn outside a Military Base why should they care? ALL CAP Seniors who are willing to wear the uniform as prescribed should be encouraged to do so. As a 55 year old 255 Lb guy with a goatee any uniform I wear is worn with care because I care a lot about what people see especially the Cadets. I really hope the blue Corporate Uniform stays because it makes CAP Members look better. When CAP is considered by the Military or others in Government the Mission and the People should factor equally.

[RiverAux]

FYI, when last given the formal, open opportunity to comment on a change regarding the CSU (at the Feb 2009 NB), CAP-USAF said "No comment", and that was in response to a proposal to replace the silver braid with the blue braid found on the AF service coat.  At that same meeting they also "no comment"ed the proposal for the Army sweater with the CSU. 

Keep in mind that this on the same agenda where CAP-USAF replied to the idea of fabric rank insignia on flight suits with this:

Non-concur. Green fabric background insignia with blue
rank will not be approved because it too closely resembles the active-duty Air Force
rank.


Thereby indicating that they certainly aren't adverse to speaking up when a CAP uniform "infringes" on the AF too much.  So, they passed up a golden opportunity to say that blue braid on a blue suit would look too much like the AF service coat which to me says that they had taken a really hands-off approach on the CSU.  Providing further evidence that if the AF was the cause of this change, it was because of a fairly recent change in attitude rather than some long-simmering negativity towards the CSU. 

[FW]

Thereby indicating that they certainly aren't adverse to speaking up when a CAP uniform "infringes" on the AF too much.  So, they passed up a golden opportunity to say that blue braid on a blue suit would look too much like the AF service coat which to me says that they had taken a really hands-off approach on the CSU.  Providing further evidence that if the AF was the cause of this change, it was because of a fairly recent change in attitude rather than some long-simmering negativity towards the CSU.

If the Air Force had a change of opinion regarding the CSU, it would have been in writing and addressed to the BoG.  The BoG would have dealt with the issue by instructing the CAP/CC to make the changes.  There would have been no appeal, no change by the NEC or NB and the discussion would have been over.  This did not happen. More reason to believe the Air Force had no part in the NEC's decision.

[Cecil DP]

CAll the ASPCA, This horse has been flogged to death.

[billford1]

Michael, The horse will keep coming back.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Michael, The horse will keep coming back.

Only because it's a zombie horse!

[lordmonar]

Michael, The horse will keep coming back.

Only because it's a zombie horse!

You got to shoot them in the head or burn them up....to be sure.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well we definitely are burning up the bandwidth with the topics.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Reminder: Until an ICL comes down from above, all the speculation about the fate of the CSU is just that.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Reminder: Until an ICL comes down from above, all the speculation about the fate of the CSU is just that.

Not really. Just because the ICL hasn't come out (and at times they take months), doesn't mean that the end isn't happening. Any of these live feed events always transferred into policy down the line, unless it was overwritten.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Reminder: Until an ICL comes down from above, all the speculation about the fate of the CSU is just that.

Not really. Just because the ICL hasn't come out (and at times they take months), doesn't mean that the end isn't happening. Any of these live feed events always transferred into policy down the line, unless it was overwritten.

Agreed.  But what is in the live feed may not necessarily reflect what will be in the final ICL.  My first squadron commander had a lot of contacts at National (he knew General Anderson personally) and there used to be a lot of talking and speculation around there but it didn't mean anything until it was put in writing.

When I see a wear-out/sunset date, then I'll take that as The Word From Above.  I'll continue to wear the CSU up until then, kind of like the way I did with the four-pocket service coat (which is still hanging in my closet, complete with blue nameplate).  At midnight on the phase-out date, my CSU will be hung up for the last time.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Posted on the thread Design a new CAP-distinctive Uniform, but applicable here.

Folks, we are actually more in-line with Ma Blue then we think.  What we are experiencing is the same thing that the AF went through a couple of years ago.  I have included an excerpt from the article posted on "The Air Force Times" in May, 2007.  If you were to change the names of the leaders to CAP leaders, and change "Air Force" to "Civil Air Patrol," it could have been an article written about us.

TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE SURVEYED PREFER CURRENT UNIFORM
With field tests nearing, many airmen are still cold to the Air Force's latest old-school revamp to its service dress uniform, according to an informal Air Force Times survey.

...Ever-changing uniform

New uniforms tend to define Air Force leaders. McPeak is synonymous with the present-day business suit look. Tight collars go hand in hand with Billy Mitchell, the World War I pilot widely considered the father of the Air Force. The history-revisited look, provided it isn't altered, may be forever associated with Moseley.
"Every time we get a new chief of staff, we're reinventing ourselves," said retired Maj. Joe Kelley. "These changes, sometimes they seem like whims."
This is where Booth, [New York ANG TSgt who loathes the current uniform, which debuted during former Chief of Staff Gen. Merrill McPeak's tenure]. a supporter of the new coat, sides with many of the suit's critics. He wants the vintage style cemented once and for all.
"If you see a Marine, everyone in the world knows that's a U.S. Marine. We can't just be hell-bent on changing the uniform for the sake of change," Booth said. "We need to find something and stick with it."

(Link to entire story:  http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/05/airforce_dressuniform_070527/ )

All that to say this – We are all tired of uniform changes; we all desire stability.  IMHO, we are at the stage now where if we, the membership, take the initiative to design a corporate uniform that reflects the membership and then we act decisively to institute it, we may very well get the stability of uniform we desperately need.  If you think it is a waste of time, fine.  You don't have to participate, but please do not deride those of us that are working for that stability.  On the thread mention above, we are having a productive discussion, throwing around ideas, etc.  Fell free to visit.  If you have comments, please make them constructive comments.  We are supposed to be on the same team, the CAP team.  Let's act like the professionals we are supposed to be.

[billford1]

Reminder: Until an ICL comes down from above, all the speculation about the fate of the CSU is just that.

Not really. Just because the ICL hasn't come out (and at times they take months), doesn't mean that the end isn't happening. Any of these live feed events always transferred into policy down the line, unless it was overwritten.

Agreed.  But what is in the live feed may not necessarily reflect what will be in the final ICL.  My first squadron commander had a lot of contacts at National (he knew General Anderson personally) and there used to be a lot of talking and speculation around there but it didn't mean anything until it was put in writing.

When I see a wear-out/sunset date, then I'll take that as The Word From Above.  I'll continue to wear the CSU up until then, kind of like the way I did with the four-pocket service coat (which is still hanging in my closet, complete with blue nameplate).  At midnight on the phase-out date, my CSU will be hung up for the last time.

We really need not to go backwards. Again I say away with the gray.

[FW]

I apologise for not being clearer in my previous posts.  Let me once again try to explain my position. 

The National Board, in September, agreed to table all uniform discussions until 2011.  They did this to have a broad based committee discuss the issue and come up with a way to solve our great dilemma with uniforms.  They are to study the issue carefully and find a path through all this mi shegash.  I agree with this proposal.  Until we come up with a "uniform" uniform policy, optain ownership with the process, and provide broad based support for it, we will never get satification.

Of course, if we do come up with a way through the darkness, we won't have much to discuss here on CT.....   

[Eclipse]

The National Board, in September, agreed to table all uniform discussions until 2011.

Which is basically a moot point if other bodies with equal authority choose to act unilaterally...

[FW]

^yes.  ain't life just grand?

[Spike]

^yes.  ain't life just grand?

Not really......just shows how screwed up the governance in CAP is.  We need a change in how the Corporation is run.  Lets call it a hostile takeover!

[Майор Хаткевич]

^yes.  ain't life just grand?

Not really......just shows how screwed up the governance in CAP is.  We need a change in how the Corporation is run.  Lets call it a hostile takeover!

Given our para-military nature, won't it be seen as a coup?