"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[nuttynette]

My feeling is that the blue/white combination is a more uniform outfit to be worn in conjunction with cadets wearing the AF style uniform.  There is no standardization among the grey pants, so how can that be a "uniform" without any uniformity?  If it is to be a uniform item, then Vanguard should offer everything in CAPR 39-1 that is listed as a uniform item and approved for wear as part of the CAP senior member uniform.  The interesting thing to see is what National Commander/National Board and/or National Headquarters (uniform approving authority IAW CAPR 39-1) says about the corporate uniform being removed from the inventory. 

I would hate to see something that looks more inline with what the cadets are wearing is discarded indiscrimately.  I feel the grey/white uniform is worn in a more slovenly and less uniformly manner than the blue/white combination.

[Hawk200]

I feel the grey/white uniform is worn in a more slovenly and less uniformly manner than the blue/white combination.

If by less "uniformly", you mean that not everyone would have the exact same pattern, shade, material as anyone else, I would agree.

As to slovenly, that is not what "not uniform" means. Sloven is a different concept.

Just out of curiosity, how did this thread get unlocked?

[RiverAux]

Just out of curiosity, how did this thread get unlocked?

shhh...Mike must be sleeping....

Anyway, as I suspect that there will be more news on this issue, I suspect we will still have need for this thread (or another one with the same subject) soon...

[Eclipse]

The interesting thing to see is what National Commander/National Board and/or National Headquarters (uniform approving authority IAW CAPR 39-1) says about the corporate uniform being removed from the inventory. 

39-1 won't say anything about it (unless its restored in some form) - it was never added to 39-1, so it doesn't have to be removed.

I feel the grey/white uniform is worn in a more slovenly and less uniformly manner than the blue/white combination.

I would agree, but its likely because at its core its civilian items being worn as a uniform, so its takes a lot less mental effort to put together, thus less respect in general.  My CAP clothes, including the corporates, are dedicated to CAP, but for a lot of folks (and by design), they are just everyday clothes with some extra pins.

I won't leave the house without them, but I'd be curious to know how many members wear shirt garters with their whites...

[Pylon]

Just out of curiosity, how did this thread get unlocked?

shhh...Mike must be sleeping....

Anyway, as I suspect that there will be more news on this issue, I suspect we will still have need for this thread (or another one with the same subject) soon...

No, just working on a solution to either consolidate or better organize the concurrent discussions on the CSU going away and the various ideas of what to do going forward.  There probably will be some sort of change shortly.

[PhotogPilot]

The interesting thing to see is what National Commander/National Board and/or National Headquarters (uniform approving authority IAW CAPR 39-1) says about the corporate uniform being removed from the inventory. 

39-1 won't say anything about it (unless its restored in some form) - it was never added to 39-1, so it doesn't have to be removed.

I feel the grey/white uniform is worn in a more slovenly and less uniformly manner than the blue/white combination.

I would agree, but its likely because at its core its civilian items being worn as a uniform, so its takes a lot less mental effort to put together, thus less respect in general.  My CAP clothes, including the corporates, are dedicated to CAP, but for a lot of folks (and by design), they are just everyday clothes with some extra pins.

I won't leave the house without them, but I'd be curious to know how many members where shirt garters with their whites...

+1

Personally, I have tried shirt garters, and can never make the bloody things work right. However, I'm constantly checking to make sure I'm properly tucked and neat appearing.

[NCRblues]

First off, thank you for unlocking this one. Second, since some on the board think this decision will be overturned, don't you think that will present an even bigger problem for cap? IMHO it will make us look like, well a bunch of amateurs, and during this time of um..."unsettlement" in our nations time do we want to present something like that?

[PHall]

First off, thank you for unlocking this one. Second, since some on the board think this decision will be overturned, don't you think that will present an even bigger problem for cap? IMHO it will make us look like, well a bunch of amateurs, and during this time of um..."unsettlement" in our nations time do we want to present something like that?

Well, the only folks who can overturn the decision are the Board of Governors. And I don't see that happening any time soon.

And I wouldn't bet on the National Board revisiting this decision either. Those Wing Commanders do work for those Region Commanders and making them look bad is probably not in their best interest.

[Eclipse]

First off, thank you for unlocking this one. Second, since some on the board think this decision will be overturned, don't you think that will present an even bigger problem for cap? IMHO it will make us look like, well a bunch of amateurs, and during this time of um..."unsettlement" in our nations time do we want to present something like that?

You're giving too much and too little credit, respectively to the various parts of this issue.

As of today, there has been no official word, including the sundown, from NHQ in any form outside of downstream messages from Region CC's.

Until the official word, it's status quo, and at a minimum there appears to be a difference of opinion between the governing bodies on whether the CSU lives or dies (the NB enhanced it with a sweater only a few months ago).

This may result in a 3000psi "discussion" between the bodies as to who has the power for which decisions, no comment from the NB, or anything in between.

Plenty can happen up to and even after an sundown.  The fact that we're debating what is essentially unofficial hearsay doesn't mean a whole lot to the majority of the membership and means nothing to our outside customers.

[billford1]

I know a lot of folks don't like the CSU and some of us do. If the BOG does step back and reverse the decision I know some people who will be pleased. I've seen them in both aviator shirt uniforms and the blue one just looks better compared to the variation of gray trousers I've seen. If you wear the grays there's less emphasis on how well it's worn. If the TPU is worn expectations are much higher and that's a good thing.

[jimmydeanno]

Well, the only folks who can overturn the decision are the Board of Governors. And I don't see that happening any time soon.

How do you figure?  The NEC does this...

"1. When the National Board is not in session, the National Executive Committee shall be vested with all the powers of the National Board, except those powers which may be reserved exclusively to the National Board."

The National Board, when in session, can overturn this NEC decision.  Then in the next NEC meeting, they could turn over the NB decision.  Fun isn't it?

Nowhere in our Constitution and Bylaws does it say that the NEC is a board of "higher authority" than the National Board.

[FW]

^ Absolutely correct.  The NEC only acts when the NB is NOT in session.  When the NB is in session, it has full authority to act.  It is very possible it will revisit the CSU issue.  Yes, the Wing/CC's report to the Region/CC's however, when the NB is in session, each member has an equal voice and an equal vote; fun isn't it?

BTW after a year's probation, a wing commander is tenured and can not be relieved except for "cause" which is defined and, a set process is in place for removal.

[flyguy06]

I think we need to mandate that if you meet height and weight you wear a USAF style uniform. If you dont meet height and weight. CAP needs "one" altenate uniform. I dont care which one it is. Although I do like the white shirt /blue pants combo. Its looks similar to the USAFstyle one.

Come on folks. We are one organization yet have tons of unifoms. I dont get it.

[davidsinn]

I think we need to mandate that if you meet height and weight you wear a USAF style unifor. If youdont meet height and weight. CAP needs "one" altenate uniform. I don tcare which one it is. Althouhg I do like the white shirt /blue pants combo. Its looks similar to the USAFstyle one.

Come on folks. We are one organization yet have tons of uniroms. I dont get it.

What about the people that have facial hair?

I meet H/W but I wear BBDU normally because my wife is fond of my goatee.

[flyguy06]

I think we need to mandate that if you meet height and weight you wear a USAF style unifor. If youdont meet height and weight. CAP needs "one" altenate uniform. I don tcare which one it is. Althouhg I do like the white shirt /blue pants combo. Its looks similar to the USAFstyle one.

Come on folks. We are one organization yet have tons of uniroms. I dont get it.

What about the people that have facial hair?

I meet H/W but I wear BBDU normally because my wife is fond of my goatee.

Ok, I meant height and weught AND facial hair. The BBDU is perfect for that.

[SarDragon]

BBDUs are fine for field wear. What about a more formal uniform to match the AF Service Dress combination? That's what all the heartburn is about.

[FW]

Breaking News......

Just got a fax containing corespondance between SEC/MIR and the BoG regarding the CSU dated between Aug - Sept 2006.  The letters ask that the (then) distinctive uniform would be made more distinctive with USAF participation in the discussions.  The response from the BoG was to inform the Air Force that the requested changes to the uniform has been made and to contact NHQ/EX to "address any (furhter) Air Force concerns". 

My sources inform me the Air Force was satisfied with the changes made at the time and no further action was required.

So.......?

[NCRblues]

That doesn't mean that the air force could not change their minds. From what we have heard in my area, from air force sources, is that once the general population of the air force started to encounter the CSU on military instillations, confusion reigned. Was this person in some navy unit with the braid on the sleeve? Was this person some sort of general's aide? Was this person a foreign officer? So I think the natural progression was that complaints finally made their way to the top, and they asked us to sideline it.

As FDR once said, "I have their hearts and minds today, but tomorrow, well who knows?"

[FW]

^very true however, there is no evidence other than some hearsay that verifies it.....

The point is to make major decisions in the open.  This type of thing should have been in the agenda, vetted and responded to prior to the meeting.  It was not.  I just was hoping things would be different from the past...

[NCRblues]

Oh I completely understand sir. Do I support the CSU going away, yes, do I support the way it left, absolutely not. I think we all had that little candle of hope in us that the ways of old were gone, but...