"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[davidsinn]

Col. Carr's comments on the issue are surprisingly (and refreshingly) blunt.  Apparently this has been an issue for almost a year and a half that CAP has chosen not to address until now.  So, there has been plenty of opportunity to bring this up and give everyone a say, but that was not done.

Actually it was Col Vasquez NER/CC. Col Carr merely sent it to his subordinate commanders who, at least in the case of INWG's Col Reeves, forwarded it to the members.

[RogueLeader]

Even more reason to ditch the AF uniform and keep the CSU.  I always feels like the AF does not care for us.

The AF here at Pope AFB loves us here, and has made some nice accomadations to us.

It's not universal.

[MIGCAP]

This is really silly. Another case of let's blame Mother Air Force. The Air Force does not let fat people wear their uniform, they throw them out.  We as CAP can wear the USAF uniform if we meet the height and weight standards, and they even give us a little slush fund tha they do not give their own people. If we don't meet the AF standards all they do is ask us to wear a uniform that is clearly not theirs.  Several years ago our own meglomanic (HWMNBN) wanted to wear nmetal rank on the USAF uniform and was told no. Therefore he asked the USAF if we could have another corproate uniform, They did not care, but then again they did not know he was going to design an Air Force Wanna-be suit. He did and we are only lucky they did not shoot us then. If there is anybody out there that think our last leader did that to do anything but stick his finger in the Air Forces eye, you're wrong. If anybody thought this wanna-be suit would last the long term you don't pay enough attention. If we want to make the real corporate uniform look better, then let's do it, but lets not build another wanna-be suit. If we wanna wear the USAF uniform lets hit the treadmill and salad bar.
Someday I wish real operational issues got as much attention as what we are allowed to wear. I did not join for the uniform, I joined for the Missions. The costal patrol guys are turning in their graves.

[Fuzzy]

The AF auxiliary without the Air Force uniform? Come on.

How do you intend to stay competitive with the US Ranger Corps?

[Ned]

Congratulations on (presumably) not being overweight, having a beard, or long hair, nor ever being in a situation where you put in hours/weeks/months of effort into a CAP project or duty, only to feel like a second-class citizen because you have a thyroid condition which will not allow you to shed enough weight to get into spec.

Bob, are you seriously suggesting that we should base our uniform decisions on specific diseases or disabilities that affect a tiny percentage of the population?

That seems . . . problematic.

Congratulations on never having to visit a military base commander to beg for resources, surrounded by your subordinates in service dress, and having to explain why you are wearing a golf shirt or plain jacket.

I've never been a base commander, but if a member is outside of height/weight or grooming standards, my guess is the base commander will not need the member to explain their uniform choices.

And will respect your choices.  And she/he will also respect you,  if your meeting is professional and helpful.

Congratulations on not making the extra effort and incurring the extra expense to look presentable and follow the rules for your country and then being told "eh, not so much".

Sir, this is neither the first nor the last time that CAP has phased out uniforms that members have already purchased.

If you look far enough back into my closet, you will find considerable investments in shade 1505 khakis, olive green fatigues, blue short-sleeved jump suits, black and white mess dress, and the odd guyaberra shirt.

(And a modest investment in portions of the CSU.)

And I was particularly reluctant to part with my fatigues and khakis, which I firmly believed presented a more professional appearance than what we derisively called the "bus driver" suit - the current blue service uniforms.

But times change.  Uniforms come and go. 

And it is worth remembering that the great majority of members will never need to wear a service coat - either USAF or CSU -  to perform their duties.

(I get the fact that you are a group commander and almost certainly need to have a "service-coat level" uniform.  And, BTW, thank you for your service.  But comparatively few members ever serve as commanders or as staffers above the squadron level.)

This is a situation the ACA, USCGAux, and NSCC do not find themselves in, and it apparently needs to be noted again, that we are now holding ourselves to a higher standard than the Army and USAF in that the grooming standard for those services are performance based, not height/weight.

But CAP didn't set the height/weight limits.  Big Blue did.

Their ball, their rules.

As someone who appreciates the military affiliation, perhaps it really is time to drop the pretense, the ribbons, and the other bling, and just move to the golf shirt for all and business attire for formal occasions and move on.

Bob, you have always been free to do that. 

That's why we have a golf shirt combo and a blazer uniform.

No one will criticize you for your uniform choices.

Surely you won't criticize mine?

[Eclipse]

You're right, its dead and out of our hands - same circle, different day.

Salute and execute - that's what I do.

[FW]

Col. Carr's comments on the issue are surprisingly (and refreshingly) blunt.  Apparently this has been an issue for almost a year and a half that CAP has chosen not to address until now.  So, there has been plenty of opportunity to bring this up and give everyone a say, but that was not done.

I respect what Col. Carr has written however, the facts about how the "CSU" came into existance and, the Air Force's acceptance is a little different than he explained:
This is a quote from a source who wishes not to be identified however, I did verify the statements from those CAP (and former) members mentioned."Pineda came up with the uniform without permission from the Air Force. The Air Force sent a letter telling CAP to not wear the uniform because they owned the fabric. Research showed that the fabric was actually owned by the US Coast Guard not the Air Force.  Mr. Michael Dominguez, the acting SECAF, flew to Maxwell where he was greeted by Pineda. He was very upset to see Pindea in that uniform ,especially upset of him wearing 2 stars on the hat. Mr. Dominguez, who was also the BOG chair at the time, sent a letter to Gen. Carol Chandler, the A-3 (new name for XO).  Gen Chandler sent CAP a letter and demanded that the uniform could not be worn any longer. At the BOG meeting Pineda fought back and said he would go to congress because they had NO authority over a corporate uniform . Gen. Bergman, a BOG member at the time, sent word back that maybe there could be a compromise. Pineda got a letter from Gen. Roger Berg asking him to come to the Pentagon to discuss the uniform. Pineda and others went to DC.  Gen Bergman had told us in advance that the biggest problem they had was the rank on the hat and then "US" on the collar. We made a proposal to Gen. Berg that we would wear the CAP hat device and replace then "US" with the CAP cutouts. We were informed by Col Kurt Sheldon of the CAP shop in the Pentagon  that they (the Air Force) accepted the changes and we could wear the uniform. The BOG was also informed of the decision and they backed off."

Take this for what it's worth.  I don't think there is any more to be said on the subject.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

This stinks.

I hadn't shelled out for the service coat, and thankfully I got my trousers from stores my squadron had.  But I did buy a flight cap, blue nameplate and blue epaulettes.

I wore the uniform for the first time two weeks ago (most of the time I wear the utility jumpsuit) and received a number of compliments on how good it looked.  A lot of our Wing staff were also wearing it.

I don't like the white/greys or polo shirts at all - no offence to those who do.

In shirtsleeve mode I thought I looked more like an airline pilot.

I am just slightly over the limit to wear the AF blue uniform, and I will not go the white/grey route, so I guess I'd better invest in some Alli.

I am not going to quit wearing this uniform until someone flat-out orders me to.  I'm going to get all I can for what I shelled out for it.

I have been in CAP off-and-on since 1993.  I don't think I have ever seen a definitive 39-1 that the brass at the top have decided on and not done a shineola load of ICL's.

Even my first squadron's deputy commander told me "we have way too many uniforms."

Good cripes, how could someone mistake us for the AF?  An admiral maybe, a Russian Air Force officer maybe, a Chesley Sullenberger wannabe maybe, but not the AF...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Air force will never, ever, allow "fat and fuzzies" into their service style uniforms. So those of us that can fit into, and shave (and I shave because I have to for my job) I must give up my uniforms to look more in line with overweight or unshaven members? I have nothing against these members; I just don't believe those members that can wear the Air force style should be penalized by being forced over to a corporate uniform.

I'm thinking of all the "fat and fuzzies" I've seen in the USCG Auxiliary wearing the modified CG uniform, which looks a heck of a lot closer to the actual CG uniform than the TPU does to the Air Force uniform...the CG doesn't raise a stink about that, do they?

[jacob]

As several have already suggested, I'm fully in support of simply removing the AF slides and blue nameplate from the CSU (OR, we go back to the original blue slides with the embroidered CAP on them and keeping the blue nameplate...which I like even better), and adopting the grey slides and grey nameplate as the new Standard CSU.  This is clearly the best and cheapest way to salvage what is the best looking of the two corporate style uniforms. The service coat can remain unchanged with the exception that the US should come off and the original CAP cutouts go back on the lapel.  The military style metal insignia is easily obtained from multiple civilian public safety sources.

The US cutouts were replaced with CAP cutouts on the Corporate Service Coat a while ago.  See "Changes to CAPM 39-1" dated 25 January 2008, paragraph 3.d

[NCRblues]

Well, cyborg, we are not the coast guard Aux. so..... Who cares?

[lordmonar]

The Air Force does not let fat people wear their uniform, they throw them out.

Not really true.  They want you to beleive that...and they MAY be moving toward that goal with their new PT program.....but I have seen a lot of overweight people not only stay but progress in the USAF.

[lordmonar]

The AF auxiliary without the Air Force uniform? Come on.

How do you intend to stay competitive with the US Ranger Corps?

We have a budget?  A mission?  A real sponsor?

[Fuzzy]

Details, details I assure you! When you've got a Lieutenant General leading your organization you need not worry about such trivial things.

Were lucky that we can still maintain any operational effectiveness with the Ranger Corps as an alternative to our membership.

[Hawk200]

The AF auxiliary without the Air Force uniform? Come on.

How do you intend to stay competitive with the US Ranger Corps?

We have a budget?  A mission?  A real sponsor?

Heh...

[Hawk200]

Were lucky that we can still maintain any operational effectiveness with the Ranger Corps as an alternative to our membership.

Huh?

[lordmonar]

Were lucky that we can still maintain any operational effectiveness with the Ranger Corps as an alternative to our membership.

Huh?

He forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags. 

[RiverAux]

I respect what Col. Carr has written however, the facts about how the "CSU" came into existance and, the Air Force's acceptance is a little different than he explained:

I didn't see where he said anything about how we got the uniform in the first place. 

[davidsinn]

I respect what Col. Carr has written however, the facts about how the "CSU" came into existance and, the Air Force's acceptance is a little different than he explained:

I didn't see where he said anything about how we got the uniform in the first place.

I just realized he called it the TPU. I wonder if the good Colonel is a member/lurker of our fine board?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Well, cyborg, we are not the coast guard Aux. so..... Who cares?

No, we are not.

I was attempting an analogy.

I believe SDF's are also more relaxed with weight standards, the ones I've seen anyway.

But I know enough of military/government culture to know that trying to protest this isn't going to go anywhere.

Now where's that Alli...