"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[A.Member]

...This is what CAP is missing.  It's not about what type of coats we should or shouldn't have.  It's not about the color of epaulets, name plates, or sleeve braid looks best.  The problem is with the process.  The problem is that Civil Air Patrol refuses to use any sort of process by which to make decisions.  Instead, our "leaders" pull the fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants maneuver over and over again. 

This uneducated and unrefined habit shows itself in just about every other arena of CAP's leadership, as well.  The shenanigans is not limited to just uniforms.  We're not just complaining because the changes are to the cool duds we can wear.   How many times has Civil Air Patrol changed our logo (or just added a new logo to the pile) without any clear justification of why we needed a logo change or needed an additional emblem?   How many times have we changed the decals on our vans and planes?  And then changed them back again?   How many Internet domains do we have for Civil Air Patrol now – eight?  More than ten?  And at least three complete changes to our main website's address in under six years?

Any regular company would be considered to be having a complete identity crisis and breakdown if it's corporate leadership kept making these types of changes every few months.

All of the rash, unreasonable changes continue to make members irate.  If it's not the CSU, maybe it was the fourth chest patch in under 5 years that CAP pilots and aircrew had to buy to keep their AF-style flight suit current.  If that didn't push some over the edge, maybe it was changing decals on the planes.  Twice.  No wait, three times and meanwhile, we don't have enough money to fly all of our cadets on O-flights or get in the training our aircrew could use.   So while it's easy to say "If you're willing to quit over a uniform, then good riddance" -- the truth of the matter is that everyone has a breaking point.  And CAP's leadership continues to make series and series of easily irksome, knee-jerk decisions that can, yes, eventually irritate plenty of our otherwise hardworking volunteers to the point of throwing up their hands.

I'm not a wearer of the CSU.  I didn't like the way it was conceived, and I'll admit that I'm a wearer of AF-style uniforms pretty much exclusively.  But as I mentioned, for me this isn't about corporate uniform wearers.  This is about how CAP insists on doing business.  Because no matter what uniform you wear, if any, this type of decision making will affect all of us.  Actually, it already has whether you realize it or not.

The change we need is in the unreasonable actions of our leadership who fail to see that their current model of governance is bad for Civil Air Patrol, not because it makes unpopular changes to our uniforms, but because it's an entirely idiotic way to run a huge organization.   Stop micromanaging, stop making decisions without any research or time put into them (and a few nights writing an agenda item doesn't count), stop and THINK.  Stop, consult, talk, research, read, and think before making decisions.  Leverage our huge volunteer base (who constantly volunteer their services to NHQ to see them fall on deaf ears) to do some of that work for you.  In the meantime, start looking into things that can actually move CAP forward.  How about looking into what CAP is going to do in the long-term for permanent meeting facilities for units and headquarters?  How about working on developing planned giving from all of our tens of thousands of CAP members and CAP alumni across the nation so we can one day enjoy the benefits of a large funding endowment?   How about working on unifying our missions and taskings?  Developing more and better training?   Clearer manuals, meatier pamphlets, and updated regulations that reflect present day CAP?    Anything that makes more of a difference than spur-of-the-moment decisions about the clothes we wear to work.

Now, this is a well reasoned post that presents an argument that I can agree with.  Well said.

[heliodoc]

^^^

It is a beautiful and succinct post... Too bad the NEC boys and girls won't have or have the capability to make sense of it!!

[Nolan Teel]

Hey guys, Lets remember that it's lonely at the top.  It's not easy making decisions that affect thousands.  We may not always agree with the leadership but we need to support them.  With that said. I really wish members of the NEC and NB read these posts to have a barometer on the membership. I just hope they remember were volunteers.

[Spike]

You've been around the organization for a little while, is this the first uniform change that ever impacted you?  Do you think it will be the last?

There is a difference in replacing insignia with different insignia that costs $3.50 AND dumping upwards of $400.00 two weeks ago on a uniform that can only be worn for a short time.

BTW.....Vanguard is NOT taking back any CSU items.  Called this morning.

Call your credit card and refuse the package.

Done and Done.  I told MasterCard the size was incorrect and the merchant refuses to accept it back, per their written policies.  I just saw my credit, and MasterCard told me to hold on to all items until they work it out with Vanguard.  Was this shady on my part?  Not as shady as Vanguard knowing the next business day that this uniform combination is obsolete.  I am sure they knew well in advance.

I did not lie, as the jacket is about 1 size too big.  I was assuming I had to go 1 size larger, because that is how the AF uniforms run (1 size smaller).  All I wanted to do was return the jacket, but now I don't want any of it (pants, shirt etc.)

[Spike]

Hey guys, Lets remember that it's lonely at the top.  It's not easy making decisions that affect thousands.  We may not always agree with the leadership but we need to support them.  With that said. I really wish members of the NEC and NB read these posts to have a barometer on the membership. I just hope they remember were volunteers.

They rarely make decisions that are for the good of the membership.  The decisions are political and for their own sake. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Done and Done.  I told MasterCard the size was incorrect and the merchant refuses to accept it back, per their written policies.  I just saw my credit, and MasterCard told me to hold on to all items until they work it out with Vanguard.  Was this shady on my part?  Not as shady as Vanguard knowing the next business day that this uniform combination is obsolete.  I am sure they knew well in advance.

I did not lie, as the jacket is about 1 size too big.  I was assuming I had to go 1 size larger, because that is how the AF uniforms run (1 size smaller).  All I wanted to do was return the jacket, but now I don't want any of it (pants, shirt etc.)

Returns/Refunds - If you're not satisfied with your purchase, return it in good condition within 15 days for refund or exchange. Please call or email for authorization to return merchandise. We cannot accept returns or refunds on custom or personalized orders unless it is to correct a mistake on Vanguards part.

They are still selling the coats, with no notice of the change. I don't see this being "custom or personalized", so they have no argument, unless it was more than 15 days since delivery.

[alamrcn]

Are we REALLY surprised? More than a couple people associated the Pineda-CAP uniform era to the McPeak-USAF era.

Remember all the assorted uniforms, parts and pieces authorized in the early 90s - then almost immeadiately reneged? Although not volunteers, those hardworking Air Force folk probably shelled out more than us on their DAILY USE uniforms.

I hope someday someone will a manuscript entitled "CAP Uniforms: The Pineda Regime" for their Master Historian specialty rating.

Anyway...

Here's the Commander's Letter announcing the then new Corporate Uniform. It is dated June, 2006. That is 3 years 5 months ago.   
I want to say the uniform was originally approved in Feb 06

I've been pretty astute in grabbing and saving every change and policy letter out of National for the last five years. The 29 June 2006 letter is the first official document regarding the TPU I have. If by chance I am missing something, PLEASE pass it along!

The CAP uniform document library thus far...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library.html

I've also saved the NB/NEC minutes there, and eventually will go through them all and note on the website what uniform related issues are discussed for easier reference.

[Nolan Teel]

ACE!!!!!! Good to see  yea!

[JC004]

The change we need is in the unreasonable actions of our leadership who fail to see that their current model of governance is bad for Civil Air Patrol, not because it makes unpopular changes to our uniforms, but because it's an entirely idiotic way to run a huge organization.   Stop micromanaging, stop making decisions without any research or time put into them (and a few nights writing an agenda item doesn't count), stop and THINK.  Stop, consult, talk, research, read, and think before making decisions.  Leverage our huge volunteer base (who constantly volunteer their services to NHQ to see them fall on deaf ears) to do some of that work for you.  In the meantime, start looking into things that can actually move CAP forward.  How about looking into what CAP is going to do in the long-term for permanent meeting facilities for units and headquarters?  How about working on developing planned giving from all of our tens of thousands of CAP members and CAP alumni across the nation so we can one day enjoy the benefits of a large funding endowment?   How about working on unifying our missions and taskings?  Developing more and better training?   Clearer manuals, meatier pamphlets, and updated regulations that reflect present day CAP?    Anything that makes more of a difference than spur-of-the-moment decisions about the clothes we wear to work.

Excellent, Mike.  This paragraph should be framed on the wall of every NB member and repeated at every board meeting untill we see some real progress.  Even if this has happened in the past, it is a forgotten practice now.  Maybe someone will take this to heart and.....

Mike:  :clap:

"and....."?!  THE BLACK VAN GOT FW!

[alamrcn]

You go, Spike!

There is no ethical reason Vangaurd should not apply their return policy as it was when the TPU items were purchased.

IF they were to add or change that policy, only items purchased AFTER the fact should be affected.

If they don't stick to their purchase and return policies, that's grounds for BBB retaliation - maybe even the state attourney general?

[airdale]

The change we need is in the unreasonable actions of our leadership who fail to see that their current model of governance is bad for Civil Air Patrol, not because it makes unpopular changes to our uniforms, but because it's an entirely idiotic way to run a huge organization.   Stop micromanaging, stop making decisions without any research or time put into them (and a few nights writing an agenda item doesn't count), stop and THINK.  Stop, consult, talk, research, read, and think before making decisions.  Leverage our huge volunteer base (who constantly volunteer their services to NHQ to see them fall on deaf ears) to do some of that work for you.  In the meantime, start looking into things that can actually move CAP forward.  How about looking into what CAP is going to do in the long-term for permanent meeting facilities for units and headquarters?  How about working on developing planned giving from all of our tens of thousands of CAP members and CAP alumni across the nation so we can one day enjoy the benefits of a large funding endowment?   How about working on unifying our missions and taskings?  Developing more and better training?   Clearer manuals, meatier pamphlets, and updated regulations that reflect present day CAP?    Anything that makes more of a difference than spur-of-the-moment decisions about the clothes we wear to work.

Bravo!  But, there are a couple of important implementation difficulties.

First, CAP is an organization without measurable output.  No goods, no services, no revenue, no profit.  Nothing really to be measured.  IMHO it is common to all organizations of this type that they ultimately become consumed with politics.  After all, if there is no way to measure whether a person is successful in his job, then I must evaluate him/her based on whether I like him/her or not.  (The US education system is going through an agonizing transition right now; introduction of measures is forcing huge changes in the way the system is managed.)  So ... CAP by its nature is almost inevitably political.

Second, CAP is a volunteer organization.  IMHO it is common to all volunteer organizations that they attract a fairly large number of people who are there to satisfy needs for power and prestige that are not being satisified in their day jobs.  This is a two-edged sword.  On one hand, the organization needs their efforts and dedication.  On the other, there is usually a reason why they do not have power and prestige in their day jobs.  In particular, they are not experienced and trained managers but they are seeking and filling management positions in the volunteer organization.  So -- dysfunction.  You get micromanagement, hip-shooting decisions, a parent-child organizational paradigm, etc.

So, the kind of change that is needed is probably impossible.

They rarely make decisions that are for the good of the membership.  The decisions are political and for their own sake.

Exactly my point, but more succinctly put.

[Майор Хаткевич]

You go, Spike!

There is no ethical reason Vangaurd should not apply their return policy as it was when the TPU items were purchased.

IF they were to add or change that policy, only items purchased AFTER the fact should be affected.

If they don't stick to their purchase and return policies, that's grounds for BBB retaliation - maybe even the state attourney general?

And once again, add the fact that they are still selling them with no note about this change.

[Eclipse]

First, CAP is an organization without measurable output.  No goods, no services, no revenue, no profit.  Nothing really to be measured.  IMHO it is common to all organizations of this type that they ultimately become consumed with politics.  After all, if there is no way to measure whether a person is successful in his job, then I must evaluate him/her based on whether I like him/her or not.  (The US education system is going through an agonizing transition right now; introduction of measures is forcing huge changes in the way the system is managed.)  So ... CAP by its nature is almost inevitably political.

Second, CAP is a volunteer organization.  IMHO it is common to all volunteer organizations that they attract a fairly large number of people who are there to satisfy needs for power and prestige that are not being satisified in their day jobs.  This is a two-edged sword.  On one hand, the organization needs their efforts and dedication.  On the other, there is usually a reason why they do not have power and prestige in their day jobs.  In particular, they are not experienced and trained managers but they are seeking and filling management positions in the volunteer organization.  So -- dysfunction.  You get micromanagement, hip-shooting decisions, a parent-child organizational paradigm, etc.

So, the kind of change that is needed is probably impossible.

I wish I could find a way to disagree with the above, but I can't...

[Strick]

I dropped a lot of coin a couple of years a go for the CSU jacket, trench coat ectc... I have been in this orginization for 18 years amd they can even get uniforms right.  I think come next August I am done.... I need to find a orginization that does not worry every year how the uniforms are going to change or look. 

[Strick]

Idea ............any person who bought and has the recipt for he CSU mail it to NHQ with your  membership renewal papers without payment   

[Майор Хаткевич]

Given that Wing King and up are basically full time jobs, who fills the slots?

Retired Folks.
"Old" Folks.

Successful Business people who can take that much time? Probably not.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Idea ............any person who bought and has the recipt for he CSU mail it to NHQ with your  membership renewal papers without payment   

I would actually suggest calling up NHQ and asking if that is a viable option. If this affects only a limited number of members, then NHQ won't loose anything by giving someone 4-5 years renewal.

[davedove]

Here's the Commander's Letter announcing the then new Corporate Uniform. It is dated June, 2006. That is 3 years 5 months ago.   
I want to say the uniform was originally approved in Feb 06

I've been pretty astute in grabbing and saving every change and policy letter out of National for the last five years. The 29 June 2006 letter is the first official document regarding the TPU I have. If by chance I am missing something, PLEASE pass it along!

The CAP uniform document library thus far...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library.html

I've also saved the NB/NEC minutes there, and eventually will go through them all and note on the website what uniform related issues are discussed for easier reference.

I happened to have a copy of the 15 Mar 2006 letter which first mentions the CSU.

[arajca]

You go, Spike!

There is no ethical reason Vangaurd should not apply their return policy as it was when the TPU items were purchased.

IF they were to add or change that policy, only items purchased AFTER the fact should be affected.

If they don't stick to their purchase and return policies, that's grounds for BBB retaliation - maybe even the state attourney general?

And once again, add the fact that they are still selling them with no note about this change.

If they haven't been officially notified by CAP, there's no reason for them to change anything about it.

Contrary to what some may think, CAPTalk is not an official source, and not everyone watches the NEC. And, since the NB put off uniform changes until the winter board, Vanguard probably had no notice of reason to expect this change.

[Strick]

If Iam not mistaken,  a Nanguard rep always attend the meetings?