"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[cap235629]

I like the idea of Vanguard having one standard grey pant and a matching flight cap.

Why not take it one step further and have the current AF service coat made in the same material?

And add a gray service cap.

These items already exist in the Law Enforcement world and all vanguard would have to do is pick a supplier.

This way we can have a military style uniform that meets our needs and is VERY distinctive, yet is similar to the AF uniform, just Grey instead of blue.

I of course would only support this if military awards and ribbons authorized on the AF style uniform would be authorized.

Stop slapping this disabled veteran who cannot meet height and weight standards because of his service connected disability in the face please.....

Just spent an hour googling uniforms.

how about this:

standardized gray pants.
standardized navy blue public safety style coat in place of navy blue blazer allowing ALL decorations and awards with gray epaulet sleeves.
navy blue round service cap to to be worn only with jacket
gray garrison cap.

honestly I would just prefer they just change the epaulet sleeves, commissioning braid (get rid of it completely) and name tags on the CSU, allow ALL ribbons and decorations, and modify the grooming standards.

Looking forward to seeing this on the NB agenda!

As Jackie Gleason used to say

and away we go!

[FW]

You've been around the organization for a little while, is this the first uniform change that ever impacted you?  Do you think it will be the last?

My problem is not that the uniform was deleted from the "wardrobe". My problem is with the body who made the decision.  The NEC should not have been involved, IMHO.  The NB spoke up at the summer meeting and the issue was to be revisited at the 2011 winter meeting.  As I previously stated,  I think there is something more to this than just uniforms......

[A.Member]

You've been around the organization for a little while, is this the first uniform change that ever impacted you?  Do you think it will be the last?

My problem is not that the uniform was deleted from the "wardrobe". My problem is with the body who made the decision.  The NEC should not have been involved, IMHO.  The NB spoke up at the summer meeting and the issue was to be revisited at the 2011 winter meeting.  As I previously stated,  I think there is something more to this than just uniforms......

That's fair enough.  Maybe you're right.  I have yet to get real caught up in that level of the bureaucracy.  Perhaps there is "more than meets the skies" with this issue.   Who knows, maybe Tony filed a trademark infringement on that awful design...   

[RiverAux]

Technically, the NEC has full authority to do almost anything the NB is authorized to do.  I'm not quite sure I like this particular clause in the CAP Constitution that gives this very small body almost the same powers as the NB, but it is what it is. 

This item is very probably going to be revisited.  And most probably modified, if not withdrawn.  Too many people spent too much money on the CSU for it to be junked without so much as a by-your-leave.

Yes, either the NB or BoG could decide to go the other way.  Which, of course, would encourage more charges of acting on whims. 

[NCRblues]

So let's say the BOG or NB wants to undue this... then the next NEC it goes right back.... are we saying there is that large of a loophole in our bylaws and governance?

[RiverAux]

Yep, with a few specific exceptions the NEC is fully vested with the same authority as the NB.  The BoG can overrule both of them if it wants to get involved. 

[Eclipse]

...I don't see what your "playing fair" comment has to do with this issue at all.

Obviously.

[Smithsonia]

Here's the Commander's Letter announcing the then new Corporate Uniform. It is dated June, 2006. That is 3 years 5 months ago.   
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5760868/OFFICE-OF-THE-NATIONAL-COMMANDER-NATIONAL-HEADQUARTERS-CIVIL-AIR

[a2capt]

Can anyone define a Yenta?  I see a few.

"Seeing" them.. rules out "Your Espionage Network and Training Academy"...

Darn. ;-)

As for my thoughts on the un-uniform gray stuff, I've just never cared for them. It's always looked.. so.. well..  boring, just plain ugh.

What I keep failing to remember with the CSU was that the grooming standards still applied, where as with the grays practically anything goes.

So unless whatever CAP distinctive uniform is good for "everyone" (else), then it's the same problem we have now. (had). Three main choices.

I still stand by, at least it was uniform in appearance.

[Eclipse]

Here's the Commander's Letter announcing the then new Corporate Uniform. It is dated June, 2006. That is 3 years 5 months ago.   
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5760868/OFFICE-OF-THE-NATIONAL-COMMANDER-NATIONAL-HEADQUARTERS-CIVIL-AIR

That's the update to the already approved uniform that added the service coat and other changes.
The letter itself indicates many are already wearing it.

The actual CSU was created much earlier in the year.  I have photos of myself and other staff receiving awards from the (then) Wing CC and all of us are wearing the new combo, probably in May.  I want to say the uniform was originally approved in Feb 06

[A.Member]

...I don't see what your "playing fair" comment has to do with this issue at all.

Obviously.

Perhaps next time you can offer up something other than a straw man argument.

[Eclipse]

The most "uniformity" you'll ever see in most CAP situations, is a mission staff in mostly golf shirts while the pilots (and pretenders) are in flight suits.

[Eclipse]

...I don't see what your "playing fair" comment has to do with this issue at all.

Obviously.

Perhaps next time you can offer up something other than a straw man argument.

Perhaps you can wiki straw man and get back to us, since my points are completely valid in
the context of dealing with volunteers.

[Pingree1492]

(...) while the pilots (and pretenders) are in flight suits.

Careful now.  No need to keep throwing stones just to see if one hits something...

[Eclipse]

(...) while the pilots (and pretenders) are in flight suits.

Careful now.  No need to keep throwing stones just to see if one hits something...

I've never been to a mission base where there weren't plenty of people who weren't going near
an airplane that day who were still wearing a flight suit.

[A.Member]

(...) while the pilots (and pretenders) are in flight suits.

Careful now.  No need to keep throwing stones just to see if one hits something...

Obviously he's too emotionally attached to the issue.

[Pylon]

I've never been to a mission base where there weren't plenty of people who weren't going near
an airplane that day who were still wearing a flight suit.

If you think that's odd or CAP-specific, you must never have been on an Air Force base then.

[Pingree1492]

(...) while the pilots (and pretenders) are in flight suits.

Careful now.  No need to keep throwing stones just to see if one hits something...

I've never been to a mission base where there weren't plenty of people who weren't going near
an airplane that day who were still wearing a flight suit.

Which has no bearing on the recent canning of the CPU.  This topic has already pretty much run it's course, let's not resurrect other long beaten to death arguments to add to it.

Even those of us who are glad to see this uniform go recognize that some members are out of luck with it.  Was there a better solution to this?  Some worth considering have been proposed here.

There are still several board meetings between now and the phase-out date of Jan 2011.  The only thing to do now if you don't agree with this is take the comments constructively up the chain.  I'm sure this isn't the last we will hear about this uniform.

[A.Member]

...I don't see what your "playing fair" comment has to do with this issue at all.

Obviously.

Perhaps next time you can offer up something other than a straw man argument.

Perhaps you can wiki straw man and get back to us, since my points are completely valid in
the context of dealing with volunteers.

You're really shotgunning all over the place...and missing.  Probably a good time to step away from the keyboard for a bit...I know I'm going to.   I spent far too much time discussing this issue.  It's simply not deserving of this level of attention.  There are far more important issues to address.

[PHall]

I love how you guys think that the average member has a say in this.
If they didn't ask for your input before they made this decision, what makes you think they will pay attention to your input now?