"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[RiverAux]

Sparky, remember, you're supposed to be our calm voice of reason here....

[Lt Oliv]

The decision by the NEC to rid us of the "CSU" was not on the agenda.  Why it was brought up at this meeting is anyones guess however, the NB voted just 2 months ago to table this, and all uniform issues, until the winter 2011 meeting.  This was done to assess a rational strategy in forming an understandable uniform policy.  I guess the NEC thought it could bypass the process.....

It seems the NEC has decided to make a statement about the powers of the entire national board.  Seems like we're in for an interesting few months...

We don't have uniforms. There is nothing unified about our uniforms. Right now, the boy scouts look more professional than the fashion show we parade about town in. Personally, I would gladly eat the cost of all of my uniforms, let them scrap the whole system and institute a simplified, common sense uniform system if they need to.

[Major Carrales]

Sparky, remember, you're supposed to be our calm voice of reason here....

I am honored, and humbled...I will return to regularly scheduled programming.  Thanks for the reminder.  Its only that I know that CAP officers in my unit and area devote money and energy (lots of it from personal funds and sometimes I think if we didn't three would be no operational CAP in the area) to accomplish the missions in our area and wastes of money like this...which destroy some of that...makes me angry...yes, angry.

[FW]

We don't have uniforms. There is nothing unified about our uniforms. Right now, the boy scouts look more professional than the fashion show we parade about town in. Personally, I would gladly eat the cost of all of my uniforms, let them scrap the whole system and institute a simplified, common sense uniform system if they need to.

And what would be the fun of that? 

[wuzafuzz]

We don't have uniforms. There is nothing unified about our uniforms. Right now, the boy scouts look more professional than the fashion show we parade about town in. Personally, I would gladly eat the cost of all of my uniforms, let them scrap the whole system and institute a simplified, common sense uniform system if they need to.

And what would be the fun of that? 

Thinking fun...  With our huge collection of uniforms and associated uniform violations, we could emulate the "People of WalMart" website.  A "People of CAP" website might be just as scary.   

[davidsinn]

And lastly, I will say that the Corporate uniform (sans service coat) can be recycled. The pants can be used in the AF style, and the white aviator shirt can be worn with gray pants. So, a service coat and a hat are pretty much the only components that cannot be re-purposed. At least you can take it off of your taxes.

How do you re-purpose a 50 inch waist pair of AF pants? I've got an officer in that situation.

[Chief2009]

I understand why the blue/ white is gone. Frankly, I was very surprised when I came back from college and saw AF slides on a CAP uniform. I bought the jacket in August 2008, more than two years after it was authorized, because there really was no option for those of us who don't meet h/w standards look near as professional as those who can wear AF style. Blazer? Don't make me laugh.

If the big problem with the Service Coat is the hard rank...

Put the grey slides on the shirt and coat.

This would be the quickest solution to save members from losing 300ish dollars on a uniform.

DN

[cap235629]

I like the idea of Vanguard having one standard grey pant and a matching flight cap.

Why not take it one step further and have the current AF service coat made in the same material?

And add a gray service cap.

These items already exist in the Law Enforcement world and all vanguard would have to do is pick a supplier.

This way we can have a military style uniform that meets our needs and is VERY distinctive, yet is similar to the AF uniform, just Grey instead of blue.

I of course would only support this if military awards and ribbons authorized on the AF style uniform would be authorized.

Stop slapping this disabled veteran who cannot meet height and weight standards because of his service connected disability in the face please.....

[Major Carrales]

I like the idea of Vanguard having one standard grey pant and a matching flight cap.

Why not take it one step further and have the current AF service coat made in the same material?

And add a gray service cap.

These items already exist in the Law Enforcement world and all vanguard would have to do is pick a supplier.

This way we can have a military style uniform that meets our needs and is VERY distinctive, yet is similar to the AF uniform, just Grey instead of blue.

I of course would only support this if military awards and ribbons authorized on the AF style uniform would be authorized.

Stop slapping this disabled veteran who cannot meet height and weight standards because of his service connected disability in the face please.....

It would take getting used to.  I don't think it would fly.  Gray uniforms might look more like East German ones than an American uniform of an Auxiliary service. 

[flyboy53]

Can we stop slamming the NEC for making this decision. Honestly, stop the whining. I have seen just as many individuals wear the TPU poorly as I have seen people wearing the grays questionably. Do you realize how many different white police shirts are out there...not to mention two or three different styles of blue name plates. Besides, that uniform represented one of the worst periods in our organization's recent history. Why not sack it and move on to a new era. I am so glad that it's gone. As a retired AF NCO, I cringed when that uniform was approved; talk about thumbing your nose at the Air Force...let alone making our organization look un-professional on the outside because of the multitude of uniform combinations. If we as an organization are supposed to be fiscally responsible than how could this uniform have been approved in the first place. Ever consider who paid the set up and the special order costs for uniform items that were not part of the traditional Air Force stock pile? Are you guys sure that the black leather jacket stays?

[Major Carrales]

Are you guys sure that the black leather jacket stays?

You can wear any sort of jacket with the white-grays from brown leather jacket to, what was mentioned one time, a HELLO KITTY pink bomber jacket.  So, if there is no more CSU...and the white grays stay, who is to say that the black jacket is not authorized with the white grays.

[Lt Oliv]

And lastly, I will say that the Corporate uniform (sans service coat) can be recycled. The pants can be used in the AF style, and the white aviator shirt can be worn with gray pants. So, a service coat and a hat are pretty much the only components that cannot be re-purposed. At least you can take it off of your taxes.

How do you re-purpose a 50 inch waist pair of AF pants? I've got an officer in that situation.

They're blue pants. Tell him to get a sport coat and wear them when he goes to church. It isn't like the pants are forever marked as being uniform. They are just blue dress pants.

Just because something cannot be repurposed into a CAP Uniform doesn't mean it is garbage (Corporate Service Coat excepted unless you become an airline pilot)

[Eclipse]

Ever consider who paid the set up and the special order costs for uniform items that were not part of the traditional Air Force stock pile?

I did, as did everyone else who bought one. 

Please send me your address and I will send you the receipt.  Its a couple of years old, now, so I'm good with 80%.

If you're suggesting that CAP paid the setup charges, then that is more reason to keep it, not get rid of it.

Perhaps in addition to being hyper-sensitive to offending the USAF every time we do something, perhaps we should concern ourselves, slightly, once in a while, with the membership.

[a2capt]

How do you re-purpose a 50 inch waist pair of AF pants? I've got an officer in that situation.

With persistence  and a sewing machine. ;-)

[Spike]

Wow.  This Sucks.  3 of my Officers purchased the "complete" CSU, days ago. 

Now I look like a jackass for recommending it to them, and I bet at least 2 walk away.

This decision is one of the finest screw-ups I have seen in CAP in at least 10 years.  This is actually hurting the members who want to be part of CAP. 

I now hope that membership drops significantly.  Until we hear the TRUE reasons behind this, the leadership should be prepared to explain to everyone they come across, why and how something like this is cool. 

Oh ya, I also get to tell the State Representative that attends my meetings (although assigned to a "legislative SQD") that the cash he dropped 7 months ago on the uniform was for nothing. 

I can wear either uniform, but the CSU (minus) the coat was my choice.  It presented a better appearance than a uniform with gray anything on it.   

[ColonelJack]

While I have absolutely no inside knowledge -- in fact, didn't even know about it until I read this thread -- I find myself agreeing with the earlier poster who advised all to wait before beginning their celebrations (or mourning).

This item is very probably going to be revisited.  And most probably modified, if not withdrawn.  Too many people spent too much money on the CSU for it to be junked without so much as a by-your-leave.

My opinion ... free and worth what it costs.  Your mileage may vary.

Jack

[A.Member]

I now hope that membership drops significantly. 

I don't necessarily hope that but if it did occur, that wouldn't be the end of the world either because if this is actually the issue that someone is willing to fall on their sword for, then they're in the wrong organization.

[Jill]

Since we have a mild thread of Yiddish words in here...Can anyone define a Yenta?  I see a few.

[Eclipse]

I don't necessarily but if it did, that wouldn't be the end of the world either.  If this is actually the issue that someone is willing to fall on their sword for, then they're in the wrong organization.

OUTSTANDING ATTITUDE!

There's a huge difference between quitting because you didn't make major, and quiting because you just dropped $300 on a uniform that was disallowed on a whim.

Especially when we know there will be members all over forced to revert to a golf shirt because they spent their dough on the CSU, who will sit and watch the thousands who are outside weight standards wearing the USAF uniform.

Think again, people, about who this is being done TO.  Not some corporate employees earning their living
from CAP, or members of the military who are simply given their clothes to wear.

Volunteers, who, in an effort to present a proper appearance and FOLLOW THE RULES, are getting the shaft. 

Volunteers, who were likely excited to represent their country in uniform, on their own time, at their own cost.

I'm the first in line about raising the bar, expecting performance before reward, and killing the "you're lucky I showed up at all" mentality.

But if you want THAT, you have to play fair.

[A.Member]

I don't necessarily but if it did, that wouldn't be the end of the world either.  If this is actually the issue that someone is willing to fall on their sword for, then they're in the wrong organization.

OUTSTANDING ATTITUDE!

There's a huge difference between quitting because you didn't make major, and quiting because you just dropped $300 on a uniform that was disallowed on a whim.

Especially when we know there will be members all over forced to revert to a golf shirt because they spent their dough on the CSU, who will sit and watch the thousands who are outside weight standards wearing the USAF uniform.

Think again, people, about who this is being done TO.  Not some corporate employees earning their living
from CAP, or members of the military who are simply given their clothes to wear.

Volunteers, who, in an effort to present a proper appearance and FOLLOW THE RULES, are getting the shaft. 

Volunteers, who were likely excited to represent their country in uniform, on their own time, at their own cost.

I'm the first in line about raising the bar, expecting performance before reward, and killing the "you're lucky I showed up at all" mentality.

But if you want THAT, you have to play fair.

Justify it however you want, although I don't see what your "playing fair" comment has to do with this issue at all.  I understand, you're part of a group that coughed up money for a uniform that was controversial from the beginning and now it's been discontinued.  So, are you going to quit over it? 

You've been around the organization for a little while, is this the first uniform change that ever impacted you?  Do you think it will be the last?

As mentioned previously, perhaps this is an issue for every other wing (again, I see no real evidence to this) but in our wing I see the number of people impacted as very negligible because they didn't have the outfit to begin with.