"Corporate Uniform" Gone!!

[AlphaSigOU]

Is there a link or something official-like for all of this? The phase-out itself, that is? I can't find anything that even remotely indicates that the corporate uniform is going away besides this thread.

Expect - but don't hold your breath - another uniform ICL stating the changes adopted.

[Lt Oliv]

Indeed I will. But for the moment, I am curious as to how this information made it to our humble forum without there being some sort of official word about it otherwise.

Are there minutes to this meeting posted? Something? Anything?

Do we have any sort of verification that this did, indeed, occur or are people getting all worked up over scuttlebutt?

[jacob]

I believe this was originally reported by someone watching the NEC live stream.  I have since spoken with someone else who was watching the NEC live stream, who got the same take-away.  I was not watching the stream myself.

[Lt Oliv]

All right, that's fine. I missed the stream myself. I just wanted to see a source. Whenever I see a bold statement that seems to be upsetting people and no little footnote, I tend to get nervous.

I suppose I just spend too much time on Wikipedia...

[AlphaSigOU]

Given the track record of official communications and regulations updates from NHQ (slower than molasses in January) I still wouldn't hold my breath...

[Major Carrales]

The "exact figures" of how much money was wasted on the CSU is not as important as the principle of having wasted that money at all. 

I estimate that anywhere from 200,000 to 300,000 collective dollars were shelled out on this, what seems now to be, folly.  Those estimates can be as low as 100,000 and as high as 350,000...money that could have been collected to host SARexs, or spend on gas to go to SARexs or bought equipment that could have been used at REDCAPS.

So long as a uniform is required by regulation, money will be shelled out on them and they will be a point of continued contention.  Thus, arbitrary changes in Uniform Policy MUST be AVOIDED at all COSTS.  Forget being "unfair" to those that buy, but I submit that the practice is a "waste, fraud and abuse" of member funds better applied to other things.

[RiverAux]

How exactly was this arbitrary?  Just because you disagree with their apparent reasons for a decsion doesn't mean it was arbitrary.   Just what process would you recommend to avoid what you call "arbitrary" changes in uniforms? 

[arajca]

How about "It was not on the agenda." for arbitrary.

[Major Carrales]

How exactly was this arbitrary?  Just because you disagree with their apparent reasons for a decsion doesn't mean it was arbitrary.   Just what process would you recommend to avoid what you call "arbitrary" changes in uniforms?

Spare me...

Any process where people submit changes for the purpose of changes is referred to as arbitrary  This is what has occurred in this entire process.  A uniform was created arbitrarily to fill a need that did not exist (uniforms existed prior and still do after that met the need), then, after members shelled out money on it, suddenly, it is removed. 

What is the reason for removing the uniform and was there even any warning?  The reason is to simplify CAP uniforms?  Really?  What warning was there of this?  As far as I and anyone in my unit can tell, there was none.  Some person just got up there and made the suggestion...was there even discussion?  Was it more than 30 seconds long?

That is arbitrary...it was done for the sake of "because."  Because schmucks didn't like it and those that bought it be [darn]ed.

My suggestion has been pretty clear...a moratorium on CAP uniforms for a period of 5 years.  Have a committee determine what uniforms are needed for what purpose, create them, stamp them in place for 5 to ten years.  Make it to where USAF uniforms are adopted upon approval from the USAF with only minor CAP input into how they are worn by CAP Officers and Cadets.

Stop designing badges and the like, keep the existing ones and make it a metaphorical FEDERAL ACT to add or change things out of the 5 to 10 year cycle.

[NCRblues]

Hm... so people are upset, that they CHOSE to spend their money ( not the corporations which would be fraud, waste and abuse that they speak of) on a uniform that was never promised to be permanent, and now that the leader's of the corporation that we all volunteer for says no more, they cry afoul? I am sorry i don't understand the reasoning. One of the arguments stated members bought it to look more like AF blues, so that was a choice, no one forced you to spend the money on that uniform.

[A.Member]

Hm... so people are upset, that they CHOSE to spend their money ( not the corporations which would be fraud, waste and abuse that they speak of) on a uniform that was never promised to be permanent, and now that the leader's of the corporation that we all volunteer for says no more, they cry afoul? I am sorry i don't understand the reasoning. One of the arguments stated members bought it to look more like AF blues, so that was a choice, no one forced you to spend the money on that uniform.

Not to mention that it was an optional uniform.

[A.Member]

This is no time to celebrate, you should all be demanding satisfaction and accountability.

Pulease....give it rest. 

[Major Carrales]

Hm... so people are upset, that they CHOSE to spend their money ( not the corporations which would be fraud, waste and abuse that they speak of) on a uniform that was never promised to be permanent, and now that the leader's of the corporation that we all volunteer for says no more, they cry afoul? I am sorry i don't understand the reasoning. One of the arguments stated members bought it to look more like AF blues, so that was a choice, no one forced you to spend the money on that uniform.

When CAP fully outfit every member with items (uniforms, basic gear et al), then I can subscribe to your points.

Your problem is that you are looking at CAP as it if it were the type of corporation one might find in the capitalist marketplace where decisions are made to effect profits and loses.  That is a mistake, this is a Volunteer organization where some 70% of the spending done to accomplish the missions comes from individuals that outfit themselves.  This action is likely a travesty of that ideal.  If you screw with the membership in this manner, then how can one expect loyalty?

To take the ground floor out from members over policies is a horrible precedent.  This outrages me more on that matter than on anything else, save likely the incredible waste of resources.   

[Major Carrales]

This is no time to celebrate, you should all be demanding satisfaction and accountability.

Pulease....give it rest. 

Bupkes

[RiverAux]

Any process where people submit changes for the purpose of changes is referred to as arbitrary  This is what has occurred in this entire process.  A uniform was created arbitrarily to fill a need that did not exist (uniforms existed prior and still do after that met the need), then, after members shelled out money on it, suddenly, it is removed. 

So, you're mad that they decided to fix something that you don't think was done properly in the first place? 

What is the reason for removing the uniform and was there even any warning?  The reason is to simplify CAP uniforms?  Really?

Apparently, yes. 

What warning was there of this?  As far as I and anyone in my unit can tell, there was none.  Some person just got up there and made the suggestion...was there even discussion?  Was it more than 30 seconds long?

The warning is when they make the announcement that the uniform will no longer be authorized after a certain period of time.

Would it have been better for this to be an announced agenda item and would it have been better to follow their unofficial policy of doing uniform changes at the winter NB?  Sure.  But, they're under no obligation to do so.  And even if it did, CAP is not a democracy and they could have gotten 99% negative comments from the field and still made the decision. 

[Major Carrales]

And even if it did, CAP is not a democracy and they could have gotten 99% negative comments from the field and still made the decision.

I will remember this when you start ranting that we need to democratize CAP.  In any case, I have it from a good source that this may be revisited.

[RiverAux]

Electing your leaders doesn't guarantee that they'll always make the same decision you would if you were in that job.  It is our current un-elected leadership, which is not beholden to the members in any way, that that has made this decision that you are complaining about. 

[Lt Oliv]

This is no time to celebrate, you should all be demanding satisfaction and accountability.

Pulease....give it rest. 

Bupkes

It's spelled "bupkis," the definition is something uncountable or literally "nothing."

As in, "I went to the track and bet on a sure thing but came home with bupkis!"

Your usage seems to be more as an interjection meaning "BS" this is an improper use of the word.

Thus ends your yiddish lesson for the day.

Next up on the agenda, let me say this.

CAP is not going to furnish uniforms to seniors. CAP should not furnish uniforms to seniors. Why? Because if you think getting a uniform item back from a kid is a chore, try getting one back from a disgruntled adult who exhibits less maturity than said kid (like quitting because the uniform changed).

You and I are volunteers in a non-profit organization. Just like the Red Cross or the Boy Scouts or any number of other organizations. IF CAP had been changing the primary uniform regularly, I'd say something must change.

That CAP only wants to change an optional uniform that we all lived without before the founder of the U.S. Ranger Corps instituted it (because he couldn't legally pack himself into AF blues) is perfectly fine with me. The uniform had no business being created in the first place. The politics behind it are sickening. Get rid of it.

And lastly, I will say that the Corporate uniform (sans service coat) can be recycled. The pants can be used in the AF style, and the white aviator shirt can be worn with gray pants. So, a service coat and a hat are pretty much the only components that cannot be re-purposed. At least you can take it off of your taxes.

[FW]

The decision by the NEC to rid us of the "CSU" was not on the agenda.  Why it was brought up at this meeting is anyones guess however, the NB voted just 2 months ago to table this, and all uniform issues, until the winter 2011 meeting.  This was done to assess a rational strategy in forming an understandable uniform policy.  I guess the NEC thought it could bypass the process.....

It seems the NEC has decided to make a statement about the powers of the entire national board.  Seems like we're in for an interesting few months...

[Major Carrales]

This is no time to celebrate, you should all be demanding satisfaction and accountability.

Pulease....give it rest. 

Bupkes

It's spelled "bupkis," the definition is something uncountable or literally "nothing."

As in, "I went to the track and bet on a sure thing but came home with bupkis!"

Your usage seems to be more as an interjection meaning "BS" this is an improper use of the word.

Thus ends your yiddish lesson for the day.

Next up on the agenda, let me say this.

CAP is not going to furnish uniforms to seniors. CAP should not furnish uniforms to seniors. Why? Because if you think getting a uniform item back from a kid is a chore, try getting one back from a disgruntled adult who exhibits less maturity than said kid (like quitting because the uniform changed).

You and I are volunteers in a non-profit organization. Just like the Red Cross or the Boy Scouts or any number of other organizations. IF CAP had been changing the primary uniform regularly, I'd say something must change.

That CAP only wants to change an optional uniform that we all lived without before the founder of the U.S. Ranger Corps instituted it (because he couldn't legally pack himself into AF blues) is perfectly fine with me. The uniform had no business being created in the first place. The politics behind it are sickening. Get rid of it.

And lastly, I will say that the Corporate uniform (sans service coat) can be recycled. The pants can be used in the AF style, and the white aviator shirt can be worn with gray pants. So, a service coat and a hat are pretty much the only components that cannot be re-purposed. At least you can take it off of your taxes.

I try to honor Yiddish when I use it, when English, Spanish and Italian just don't have the word I need

...but my usage was actually just that "nothing."  It is better to say "bupkis" than what I intended to say.