Blues Coat Question

[CAPed Crusader]

Hello,
Quick question, if you wear your Cadet Airman or Cadet NCO chevron on your blues coat, do you need it on your blues shirt collar as well?

V/R
DeRosa

[CAPed Crusader]

CAPM39-1 Does not specify this.

[Eclipse]

CAPM39-1 Does not specify this.

CAPM 39-1, Page(s) 37, 42, 45:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"4.1.6.5.1.2. Cadet NCOs and Airmen do not wear rank insignia on the blue
shirt when the service dress coat is worn, as rank insignia is worn on the service dress coat. "

[CAPed Crusader]

Thank you, I must have missed this.

[Shuman 14]

So if the Cadet takes his blouse/coat off... there's no way to tell what rank they are?

Don't tell me that never happens.

Seems like a flaw in the regulation that should be corrected.

[Eclipse]

Somehow CAP has managed to make it through this dark cloud with little notice.

[PHall]

So if the Cadet takes his blouse/coat off... there's no way to tell what rank they are?

Don't tell me that never happens.

Seems like a flaw in the regulation that should be corrected.

Well, they're not wearing a name tag either so I guess we will never know who they are.

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

[Shuman 14]

Well, they're not wearing a name tag either so I guess we will never know who they are.

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

I'll have to check but I always do. I still have the two nametags they issued me at Fort Benning at Infantry OSUT many moons ago. One for the shirt and one for the coat.

For Corporals and above, rank is worn as an epaulet slide, so not a big deal. Specialists, PFC's and PV2's do wear pin on rank on the collar of the shirt when wearing the coat/blouse.

[Eclipse]

I still have the two nametags they issued me

A lot of cadets only own one nametag and one set of grade pins.

[Hawk200]

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

DA Pam 670-1 says,"(2) Nonsubdued grade insignia, pin-on.
(a) All specialists and below will wear the nonsubdued, pin-on grade insignia on the collar of the service uniform shirt, the black all-weather coat, and the windbreaker. Insignia is worn centered on both collars, with the centerline of the insignia bisecting the points of the collar, 1 inch up from the collar point (see fig 19–56)."

There doesn't seem to be any stipulation that says to remove it when wearing the service coat.

A friend recently graduated from an MOS school (right after boot camp, he's non-prior service), and has a picture of himself in service dress uniform, wearing rank on the shirt under his service coat. I would imagine that he was taught to do this by his instructors, so I think it's accurate.

[LSThiker]

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

Yes. Soldiers are to wear the required items for Class B under their Class A jacket. The only exception is that E1 to SPC do not wear the rank on the collar. Otherwise, Soldiers are to wear the name tag and the appropriate shoulder marks (CPL and above).  Otherwise optional items are not required, such as badges and identifiers.

This was an inspection question for the 2011 Drill Sergeant of the Year competition.  It was one of the most  missed items during the inspection phase, which DS had to find a certain number of uniform errors in a certain time frame. Most inspectors did not ask for the Soldier to remove their jacket.

[PHall]

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

Yes. Soldiers are to wear the required items for Class B under their Class A jacket. The only exception is that E1 to SPC do not wear the rank on the collar. Otherwise, Soldiers are to wear the name tag and the appropriate shoulder marks (CPL and above).  Otherwise optional items are not required, such as badges and identifiers.

This was an inspection question for the 2011 Drill Sergeant of the Year competition.  It was one of the most  missed items during the inspection phase, which DS had to find a certain number of uniform errors in a certain time frame. Most inspectors did not ask for the Soldier to remove their jacket.

Which begs the question, why would you ask somebody to remove their jacket?

[Vegas1972]

So if the Cadet takes his blouse/coat off... there's no way to tell what rank they are?

Don't tell me that never happens.

Seems like a flaw in the regulation that should be corrected.

Well, they're not wearing a name tag either so I guess we will never know who they are.

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

They should be wearing a nametag according to 4.1.5.5.2.1 in 39-1.   Senior members and cadet officers should also have rank on the blue shirt according to 4.1.5.5.1.

[THRAWN]

So if the Cadet takes his blouse/coat off... there's no way to tell what rank they are?

Don't tell me that never happens.

Seems like a flaw in the regulation that should be corrected.

Well, they're not wearing a name tag either so I guess we will never know who they are.

So does AR670-1 require the wear of a name tag and grade insignia on the shirt you wear under your Army Blues coat?

They should be wearing a nametag according to 4.1.5.5.2.1 in 39-1.   Senior members and cadet officers should also have rank on the blue shirt according to 4.1.5.5.1.

Go read those cites again, and in context.

[Vegas1972]

The context that I'm reading is that's how to wear the '4.1.5.5. Long-Sleeve/Short-Sleeve Blue Shirt ' as a part of the '4.1.5. Men's Service Dress Uniform (Class A)'.   

What other context is there?   asking, not arguing.

[PHall]

The context that I'm reading is that's how to wear the '4.1.5.5. Long-Sleeve/Short-Sleeve Blue Shirt ' as a part of the '4.1.5. Men's Service Dress Uniform (Class A)'.   

What other context is there?   asking, not arguing.

They're quoting ARMY REGULATION 670-1, not CAPM 39-1. And they were answering the question that was posed.

[Vegas1972]

The context that I'm reading is that's how to wear the '4.1.5.5. Long-Sleeve/Short-Sleeve Blue Shirt ' as a part of the '4.1.5. Men's Service Dress Uniform (Class A)'.   

What other context is there?   asking, not arguing.

They're quoting ARMY REGULATION 670-1, not CAPM 39-1. And they were answering the question that was posed.

I believe he was asking about my cites...which were from CAPM 39-1 in which I read to say that all CAP members should have a name tag on their blue shirt under the Class A jacket and senior members and cadet officers should have rank on the blue shirt. 

I agree that that the OP question has been answered. 

[N6RVT]

Somehow CAP has managed to make it through this dark cloud with little notice.

You might find it interesting that the entire Coast Guard Aux has the same problem. The USCG eliminated what they call "soft shoulder boards", which were the same thing as CAP slide on rank.  When they did that we went back to collar pins - which you don't wear with the coat.  CAP does not have a monopoly on stupid uniform decisions.

[PHall]

Somehow CAP has managed to make it through this dark cloud with little notice.

You might find it interesting that the entire Coast Guard Aux has the same problem. The USCG eliminated what they call "soft shoulder boards", which were the same thing as CAP slide on rank.  When they did that we went back to collar pins - which you don't wear with the coat.  CAP does not have a monopoly on stupid uniform decisions.

Just about any organization that wears a uniform has made "stupid uniform decisions", it's not just a CAP or even a military thing.

[TheSkyHornet]

Just about any organization that wears a uniform has made "stupid uniform decisions", it's not just a CAP or even a military thing.

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

Thank you, I must have missed this.

That's okay... sun must have got into your eyes.  It happens to the best of us?  At least you attempted to look it up :clap: