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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Female dress boot regs
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Author Topic: Female dress boot regs  (Read 1491 times)
Momster
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: WA-015

« on: April 15, 2018, 09:36:19 PM »

Here is what is in the regulations:

6.4.5.5. Dress Boots. Plain black, commercial design without ornamentation such as
buckles, bows or straps; heels of a height suitable to the individual but no higher than 2 inches
(measured from inside sole of the boot to end of heel lift). Wear of boots with skirt or slacks authorized
however, if worn with skirt, boots must be removed and pumps or oxfords must be worn while in
workplace. Highly polished, high gloss or patent leather is allowed.

I'd like to be more certain about height of the upper of the boot.  This reg is non-specific enough that, with proper heel height, one could potentially wear thigh-high pull ons with a skirt.  Not that I want to.  Does anyone have any more specifics and maybe pictures of what is actually acceptable?

Thank you all
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,308

« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 09:45:12 PM »

The way the reg is written, it appears to be more to allow boots with a skirt to be worn to and from work (CAP meeting/activity) due to weather (rain, snow, hail, etc) rather than worn during work. So, even in you did wear thigh-high boots, when you got to the meeting, you'd need to change into pumps of oxfords for the meeting.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,333

« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 10:34:55 PM »

Standard combat-style black boots.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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Momster
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: WA-015

« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 12:08:30 AM »

Keep those answers coming!  Neither of those particularly satisfies me, though I am willing to be wrong about this.  The allowed highly polished, high gloss, or patent leather dont sound like any combat boots Im aware of (though having been in no branch of the service but the Forest Service, I admit my combat boot knowledge is much more limited than my caulk boot knowledge) and with no reference to allowances for weather in the reg, Im skeptical about that answer too, but less so.  But, I have broad shoulders and can totally bear being wrong. 8)
Anyone else?  More thoughts on this?
Thanks!
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,308

« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 12:13:15 AM »

Standard combat-style black boots.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Disagree. The paragraph deals with dress boots, which are not combat boots.
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J2H
Seasoned Member

Posts: 200
Unit: MER-MD-031

« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 12:36:50 AM »

Dress boots I assume would be "fancy" combat boots... ie Galls Parade boot-style... patent leather or hi-gloss... they are still combat boots, but pretty.
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SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
#217169
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,502
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 02:01:38 AM »

Nope. We're talking ladies dress boots, suitable for wear with nice civilian clothes, too.

Sadly, my Google-foo is weak tonight, and I haven't found any pics of suitable boots. Everything I saw was too high (heel), too tall, or too fancy.

Mid-calf length is what I have seen worn in the past, but very infrequently.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
I_Am_Twigs
Forum Regular

Posts: 115
Unit: RMR-ID-069

« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 02:21:05 AM »

Typically combat boots have an 8" rise up on your leg, so about mid-calf to lower calf depending on your height. Some boots I would recommend are bates, specifically the kind vanguard sells I've had mine for 2 1/2 years and I've abused them, still have yet to see a little bit of them falling apart. I don't recommend buying them from vanguard however, you can usually find them other places for cheaper, I got mine at a sportsmans warehouse for like $60
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Mitchell #68874
1st Encampment 2016 
2nd Encampment 2017
3rd Encampment 2018
C/2nd Lt, CAP
 
J2H
Seasoned Member

Posts: 200
Unit: MER-MD-031

« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 02:37:34 AM »

There is also a section for men's dress boots... to me, dress boots are fancy mil boots
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SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
#217169
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,502
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 05:11:52 AM »

This is a dress boot suitable for CAP wear..

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,333

« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 09:07:06 AM »

Those are cowboy boots.

I have to imagine the intent was something like this:



With the idea being that a member could wear their clean and serviceable BDU boots with their blues.

They don't have to be Corfam-shiny as that's not a requirement for dress shoes, either.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 09:29:57 AM »

Those are cowboy boots.

I have to imagine the intent was something like this:



With the idea being that a member could wear their clean and serviceable BDU boots with their blues.

They don't have to be Corfam-shiny as that's not a requirement for dress shoes, either.

You're not even close. Shiny Combat Boots are still Combat Boots. They are NOT Dress Boots.
Dress Boots are not worn with BDU's. They're worn with the Service and Service Dress uniforms.
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Geber
Member

Posts: 68

« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 09:42:44 AM »

Quote
6.4.2.4. Dress Boots. Can be worn (optional) with the service dress and services uniforms.
Wear boots with skirt or slacks; however, if worn with skirt, remove boots and wear pumps, slip-on
shoes, or low quarters while in the work place. Heels will be of a height suitable to the individual but no
higher than 2 inches (measured from the inside sole of the boot to the end of the heel lift). The tip of
the heel cant be less than inch in diameter or larger than the body of the boot. Faddish styles will not
be worn (e.g. extreme toes, pointed or squared, or extreme heel shapes). They will be plain, clean and
serviceable, and without ornamentation such as buckles, bows or straps. The material will be smooth,
scotch-grained leather or a manmade material. They may be high-gloss or patent finish.

Clearly a combat boot will not have a heel just over 1/2 inch diameter.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,333

« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 10:16:36 AM »

As much as I hate to do it, referring to the AFI would indicate "someone" embellished
the definition included in 39-1 for "reasons".

AFI-36-2903, Page 69
"Heels of a height suitable to the individual but no higher than 2 1/2 inches (measured from inside sole of
the boot to end of heel lift). Wear boots with skirt or slacks; however, if worn with skirt, remove boots and
wear pumps or oxfords while in work place. Plain, black, commercial design without ornamentation such as
buckles, bows, or straps. High gloss or patent finish optional"


No idea why the verbiage about the diameter of the heel is necessary or even relevent, since as stated above,
nothing in a combat-style boot, or even a conservative pump is going to have a 1/2" diameter heel.

When you read the male verbiage in both 39-1 and 2903, its clear and obvious the intention was to allow
for combat-style boots to be worn with blues.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 10:42:26 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,333

« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 10:26:37 AM »

When you search "female dress boot" on AAFES, this is the only thing reasonable that comes up:

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/calvin-klein-devlin-box-leather-boots/8628728

(Photo of same boot from Zappos)


Which would be appropriate for wear with female blues, but would have to be changed
is a skirt is worn.
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Geber
Member

Posts: 68

« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 10:38:58 AM »

As much as I hate to do it, referring to the AFI would indicate "someone" embellished
the definition included in 39-1 for "reasons".

.
.
.

No idea why the verbiage about the diameter of the heel is necessary or even relevent, since as stated above,
nothing in a combat-style boot, or even a conservative pump is going to have a 1/2" diameter heel.

When you read the male verbiage in both 39-1 and 2903, its clear and obvious the intention was to allow
for combat-style boots to be worn with blues.

The AFI has the passage about 1/2 inch heels, under a different paragraph number.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,333

« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 10:43:16 AM »

I see it.  The I have no idea what the actual expectation here is.

Nothing with a 1/2-inch diameter heel in a boot if going to look appropriate with blues.

Maybe something like this?


« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 10:46:18 AM by Eclipse » Logged


PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 10:58:18 AM »

I see it.  The I have no idea what the actual expectation here is.

Nothing with a 1/2-inch diameter heel in a boot if going to look appropriate with blues.

Maybe something like this?



As long as the heel does not exceed 2-1/2 inches in height they're good to go.
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Momster
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: WA-015

« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 04:54:37 PM »


Thank you all for your posts and pics.  I appreciate the help and clarification.  If nothing else, I now know that there are dress combat boots!  Had no idea. :)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 05:00:00 PM by Momster » Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,502
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 07:45:55 PM »

No idea why the verbiage about the diameter of the heel is necessary or even relevent, since as stated above,
nothing in a combat-style boot, or even a conservative pump is going to have a 1/2" diameter heel.

No spike heels.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Female dress boot regs
 


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