CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: CAPSOC_0pur8ur on April 14, 2018, 12:42:07 AM

Title: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: CAPSOC_0pur8ur on April 14, 2018, 12:42:07 AM
So those of you who are in the You Know You're In Cap When... fb page (the good one, not the new snowflake one) know it's been pretty lit today. What are you guys' thoughts on CAP members who use the anonymity of social media to post things that they wouldn't say in person? Do y'all think there should be more serious repercussions for acting like a pos when you have CAP plastered across your facebook?

Please keep the discussion civil. I Don't want to get into specifics of the particular incident- I'd rather use it as a kind of case study to see what action can/should be taken
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: NIN on April 14, 2018, 07:18:40 AM
I'll leave these two words right here:

Core Values

I think that frames the reasons
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: etodd on April 14, 2018, 11:49:42 AM
I'm seeing at least 5. Which are you saying is the "good one"?  The one with 7000 members?

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/You+Know+You%27re+In+Cap/keywords_groups (https://www.facebook.com/search/str/You+Know+You%27re+In+Cap/keywords_groups)
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: etodd on April 14, 2018, 12:35:21 PM
Its a difficult issue. SO many folks with fake profiles. They can say what they want, and be anon.

If you KNOW who it is, there are ways of dealing with it. Chain of command at lower levels. Keep it local if possible.

But when it comes to Facebook in general, its the wild west. Everyone participating should know that its not a place where "group pages" use Robert's Rules of Order or have any other means of order. Its anarchy at best, usually with a Admin (who created the page) or two that will monitor and control on a whim, depending on their mood that day.

IOW ... do NOT get on Facebook expecting it to always be pleasantries and perfect decorum.  Its NOT the nature of the beast.

I know folks who have unplugged.  They seem happier now.  :)
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Starbird on April 14, 2018, 02:36:32 PM
It seems we have bigger fish to fry, such as auxnewsnow and auxbeacon.... they are the ones with professional looking websites who are spreading false info about us.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: CAPSOC_0pur8ur on April 14, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
I'm seeing at least 5. Which are you saying is the "good one"?  The one with 7000 members?

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/You+Know+You%27re+In+Cap/keywords_groups (https://www.facebook.com/search/str/You+Know+You%27re+In+Cap/keywords_groups)

Yes, the biggest one is the original, all of the others are clones
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Shawn W. on April 14, 2018, 07:09:59 PM
I'll leave these two words right here:

Core Values

I think that frames the reasons

I agree with NIN on this. Someone once told me that discretion is the better part of valor; I believe that to be true and I try to mentor Seniors and Cadets to that standard.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: PHall on April 14, 2018, 08:21:55 PM
I don't even bother to even visit that group.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: etodd on April 14, 2018, 09:52:33 PM
This one is much more civil and is moderated actively:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/249849541798600/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/249849541798600/)
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Gunsotsu on April 14, 2018, 10:23:09 PM
I find it humorous that one can comment on anonymity in social media and post said comment from behind a anonymous username on an unofficial discussion board.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/782/935/ce2.png)
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: CAPSOC_0pur8ur on April 14, 2018, 10:24:51 PM
The key here is that  we are not abusing anonymity in order to get away with being a turd
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: etodd on April 14, 2018, 10:28:59 PM
I find it humorous that one can comment on anonymity in social media and post said comment from behind a anonymous username on an unofficial discussion board.

Most everyone here on CapTalk knows who everyone is. Only a handful are anon, like yourself.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Gunsotsu on April 15, 2018, 09:44:53 PM
Most everyone here on CapTalk knows who everyone is. Only a handful are anon, like yourself.

Those that need to know, know.

7465 registered users, there's a lot of anonymity.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: etodd on April 15, 2018, 10:05:36 PM

7465 registered users ....

And probably less than 100 that participate based on what I usually see around here.  Either lots of lurkers, or the system doesn't purge folks that haven't checked in for years.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: SarDragon on April 16, 2018, 01:34:09 AM

7465 registered users ....

And probably less than 100 that participate based on what I usually see around here.  Either lots of lurkers, or the system doesn't purge folks that haven't checked in for years.

All of the above.

The top 20 posters have made one-third of the posts.

The top 60 posters have made over 53% of the posts.

84 members have made at least 1,000 posts.

955 members have made just 1 post, and 3883 members are lurkers, with zero posts, a few going back all the way to 2005.

Oh, yeah, 35 people have been banned.  :)
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: PHall on April 16, 2018, 09:33:06 AM
Only 35 have been banned? Seems like it should be more. Or have they just been that memorable?
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Eclipse on April 16, 2018, 10:04:43 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Sriracha on April 16, 2018, 11:36:34 AM
I know you'd said you didn't want to go into the specifics, but how specific can you relay here? (Not names or specific squadrons or anything) as I don't have a facebook account. Just the gist of what happened.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Eclipse on April 16, 2018, 12:08:52 PM
I know you'd said you didn't want to go into the specifics, but how specific can you relay here? (Not names or specific squadrons or anything) as I don't have a facebook account. Just the gist of what happened.
Please don't.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Sriracha on April 16, 2018, 12:15:11 PM
I know you'd said you didn't want to go into the specifics, but how specific can you relay here? (Not names or specific squadrons or anything) as I don't have a facebook account. Just the gist of what happened.
Please don't.

If it's that bad, nevermind then. On terms of online conduct, however, we should all follow our core values, as NIN said.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Devil Doc on April 16, 2018, 01:51:53 PM
Oh boy, I am on that page. That post being referred too got seriously out of hand. However, the SM and Cadets involved were both in the wrong. I use the page as a way to joke, make fun of CAP, or just to join in on shenanigans.  I usually post old JROTC photos, my ribbon rack, or just CAP gear I have acquired.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: TheSkyHornet on April 18, 2018, 09:52:25 AM
Virtually everything cadets do in CAP is based on what they're taught in CAP, and that stems from the senior members who either taught them directly or supervised the teaching. It's a failure on the part of senior members when cadets, in a majority fashion, begin to stray and act like that.

Sure, you're going to face some individuals that really stand out, and maybe that's something that just can't be corrected at our level. It comes from their home and school. It's not ours to correct. This is when you have to take certain measures, such as denying a promotion or denying participation in an activity, or other alternatives, to drive home the point that it doesn't fly here. This goes for seniors as well.

Here's a basic officership 101 principle: You're not better than anyone.

The person in charge isn't in charge because they're better. They're in charge because they gained the knowledge and experience to show that their servant leadership for the people subordinate in their chain of responsibility.

Joking around is one thing. That level of ego is unacceptable.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: DemonOps on April 18, 2018, 01:27:53 PM
Real professionals address challenges and suggest the fixes.  What I've always appreciated about CAP Talk, has been the professionalism in responses (once, someone warned the offender that there are wing and former wing ccs, as well as region and former region ccs reading these posts, so we all should conduct ourselves accordingly).


I just retired two weeks ago.  I left a volunteer organization.  This organization has limited resources.  The biggest challenge I see for this great (no kidding) organization is that groups and wings would rather put unqualified people in command positions, than close down the squadron (exception to this is out here in west-michigan, where a 2lt was made commander, but since he was smart, a professional on the outside, and he had help from experienced people, the unit survived and membership grew, but sadly I believe this is the exception).  Anyhoo, for any CAP blog to continue and flourish, they need to limit complaints, except where to go and quote the regulation that deals with the subject (and if you are still having trouble, private email the person).


Captains asking questions about uniforms?  I've seen questions like these dismissed with just that type of response.  Better, use these questions as a learning moment (even with 25 years of military service,  I didn't start reading CAP regulations until I ran afoul and needed to know how to address the problem). Being civil to each other will go a long ways towards retention. (Why does CAP spend so much money on recruiting, and not retention)?


Golden Online Media Rule (which will save your a@#):  Never write anything you wouldn't say to the person, face-to-face.  Got problems, start getting 'friends' with the IG manual.  If you gripe, and your website has CAP all over it, then my friend, your website, and possibly your very membership, can have a 'shelf-life'. It only takes 2-5 minutes to generate a 2B form and you're gone, usually with no way to address the wrong or have your side heard (please, don't quote the chapter and verse from the IG manual that instructs, how to address the the wrong, because when it's goes that far, well, go volunteer with the USCGAux or scouts, because you can't 'fight city hall' and you're done with CAP.


My 2 pesos of thought!  8)
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Johnny Yuma on April 18, 2018, 11:16:30 PM
CAP Core values?

I saw both threads that caused the stir on YKYICAPW. While some of the responses were out of line one does not join a Facebook group, not follow the posted rules, throw your grade around, threaten others with 2B's, get blocked and banned by the group administrator then talk Core Values and cyberbullying. It is also poor form to drag your grievances to other FB pages in order to garner sympathy, misrepresenting your part in the incident in the process, to the point where that page administrator deletes your posts as well.


YKYICAPW doesn't just consist of cadets, or even current members. There are plenty of former and retired cadets and Senior members on the group that aren't subject to CAP's rules and many of the 'responses in kind' originated from them.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: Johnny Yuma on April 18, 2018, 11:50:53 PM
It seems we have bigger fish to fry, such as auxnewsnow and auxbeacon.... they are the ones with professional looking websites who are spreading false info about us.

Auxnewsnow is a dead link and the human debris that run Fauxbeacon are the biggest bunch of lying, slanderous hypocrites I've ever seen run a website. One article will be attacking a CAP member for supposedly racist and homophobic social media posts then turn around and make homophobic attacks against a murdered CAP member.
Title: Re: CAP Online Conduct
Post by: SarDragon on April 19, 2018, 12:15:40 AM
Well, that hit the sewer quickly.

Flush.