Uniform changes

[Caelfi]

I have been a long time member, but I was absent about 4 years. I'm not understanding, nor am I finding a reason to not wear uniforms except in the field only. When did this change occur and why? If anyone knows please enlighten me. This does not make sense to me on a team unity level. I'm in a new squadron with all new people. I can't tell who is who, what their grades are or their training. No one has bothered to Make any introductions, so I'm trying to figure out my chain of command ect. This no longer looks like the CAP with an order of discipline to me. I'm quite confused.

[Stonewall]

What are you talking about?

Since it's a new squadron, maybe they haven't acquired uniforms yet?

There is nothing saying "only wear uniforms in the field."

[FlyingPig]

Nothing about CAP has changed in that regard since you were active 4 years ago.  Are there cadets all walking around in jeans and tshirts too?  Is this a senior Sq with 5 guy sitting around drinking coffee?  Was this casual friday?  These are also very easy to ask the other members.  That being said, you are more than welcome to suit up and roll in starched and pressed as well.  Id start with your unit.  Regardless of how large a unit is, I bet anyone there could direct you to the commander who could easily answer the questions.

But to answer your question, no, its still the same CAP from 4 years ago.

[PHall]

Some units have a policy of Polo Shirts only for seniors. This may be what he's talking about.

[SARDOC]

Nope, Should still be wearing uniforms for meetings as well.  That being said, I've made unofficial stops in at meetings (not my squadron) to drop stuff off, not wearing a uniform.  But if my intent was to officially participate in the meeting, it would be the uniform of the day.

[SARDOC]

Some units have a policy of Polo Shirts only for seniors. This may be what he's talking about.

That's a terrible policy.  I'd like to remind them about what the minimum basic uniform requirements are.  They should be wearing that uniform on a regular basis, even if it's just awards night.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

[PHall]

Some units have a policy of Polo Shirts only for seniors. This may be what he's talking about.

That's a terrible policy.  I'd like to remind them about what the minimum basic uniform requirements are.  They should be wearing that uniform on a regular basis, even if it's just awards night.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

Was NOT defending this policy, just reporting on what I have seen. And this was happening in more then one wing too.

[heliodoc]

Been to a number of meetings where the polo uniform was the accepted for both flying and UTM like activities

Some units still don't have ABUs or many a member who wore uniforms in the past...welllll...polo it is

We get that the 39-1 is still around 125 plus pages while the current 60-3 (2012) is only 34 pages long and THAT reg ought to have more MEAT to our mission,,,and may be that is CAP's problem

Too many worries about uniform

How's that CAL OES requirement of orange while under their assigned mission when CAP supports them?  Somebody cry abou t that requirement?

The worry about uniforms...welll some get the idea..

[Eclipse]

How's that CAL OES requirement of orange while under their assigned mission when CAP supports them?  Somebody cry abou t that requirement?

Yes they did, and they got rid of it.

Ages ago.

[heliodoc]

Ages ago? OK...Im behind

Nonetheless CAP needs to up its game in the uniform world

I get it....we are the USAF 501 c(3) organization

Big whatever....if the requesting agency is requesting...CAP might just behoove and move out smartly, as they say

Camo and "SAR"  been argument since forever

Time for an updated CAP ES reg and curriculum...more important than uniforms in many a mission

[NIN]

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

This. So much this. Over and over.

The number of times I see people in the wrong category of uniform for the gravity or formality of the event just blows my mind. You're coming up to get an "of the year" award and your wing and region commanders are in service dress (or, you're getting an award from the governor for a CAP thing, and he's in a suit) and you're standing there in a polo shirt and "cargo pants."  Terrible look, guys.

In before the polo shirt crowd goes "BuT tHe PoLo ShIrT iS sO mUcH cHeApEr!"

Polo shirt: $31.75 (screened seal) to $60.50 (personalized long sleeve)
Tac Pants: $58.85 via Vanguard, $45-50 via commerical sources
Rigger belt: $11.80 via Vanguard, $10-12 elsewhere
Black Boots: $35-50 if you need to get them.
$102-$120-ish, depending on sources, before boots

Class B aviator shirt:  $33.40 short sleeve (vanguard) or $20 on Amazon
Grey Nametag: $4.75
Shoulder Marks: $11.35 (whoa, those babies went up!)
Black dress belt: you probably have one
Grey slacks: $65 thru Vanguard, but honestly, you might have them, or you can get them for $25-30 on the economy
Black shoes: $25-30 on the economy, no reason to get those from Vanguard
$114 thru Vanguard exclusively before shoes, or $66.10 if you shop savvy "elsewhere." And by "savvy" I mean "You can probably get a $5 pair of grey slacks at the local Goodwill that will work just fine".

Which leads me to: If it isn't CAP specific, or doesn't have a CAP logo on it, and you can get it from someplace other than Vanguard, you should do so.

[Fubar]

Terrible look, guys.

To who? I'm sure at some point a parental figure told you not to worry about what other people think. There are some who take that into adulthood.

Now, if you're talking about a situation where income is involved, well then you gotta play the game. I'll even throw on a tie. A volunteer gig where I'm wearing an approved uniform correctly while the guy next to me is about to kill someone when his middle button pops on his blues jacket? Well I really don't think I'm the problem.

(P.S. I've seen NIN in person, often he was the only person in a group that was actually in regs to be in blues, so he's by no means a problem either)

[Paul Creed III]

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

This. So much this. Over and over.

The number of times I see people in the wrong category of uniform for the gravity or formality of the event just blows my mind. You're coming up to get an "of the year" award and your wing and region commanders are in service dress (or, you're getting an award from the governor for a CAP thing, and he's in a suit) and you're standing there in a polo shirt and "cargo pants."  Terrible look, guys.

In before the polo shirt crowd goes "BuT tHe PoLo ShIrT iS sO mUcH cHeApEr!"

Polo shirt: $31.75 (screened seal) to $60.50 (personalized long sleeve)
Tac Pants: $58.85 via Vanguard, $45-50 via commerical sources
Rigger belt: $11.80 via Vanguard, $10-12 elsewhere
Black Boots: $35-50 if you need to get them.
$102-$120-ish, depending on sources, before boots

Class B aviator shirt:  $33.40 short sleeve (vanguard) or $20 on Amazon
Grey Nametag: $4.75
Shoulder Marks: $11.35 (whoa, those babies went up!)
Black dress belt: you probably have one
Grey slacks: $65 thru Vanguard, but honestly, you might have them, or you can get them for $25-30 on the economy
Black shoes: $25-30 on the economy, no reason to get those from Vanguard
$114 thru Vanguard exclusively before shoes, or $66.10 if you shop savvy "elsewhere." And by "savvy" I mean "You can probably get a $5 pair of grey slacks at the local Goodwill that will work just fine".

Which leads me to: If it isn't CAP specific, or doesn't have a CAP logo on it, and you can get it from someplace other than Vanguard, you should do so.

Tac pants are not required for the polo uniform so the same "grey slacks" and "black shoes" from the "class B aviator shirt" option would work for the polo uniform as well.

While there could be a new uniform argument (heaven help us) that the polo should be limited to either the tac pants/boots or the slacks/shoes combos, either work. I stressed to my people during my last command to not mix-and-match. The polo, IMHO, works well with tac/pants and boots for non-dressy events and looks pretty good for dressier events with slacks and shoes. (But, please, don't buy the screen print version; that just screams "cheap" to me.) But, I do see NIN's point on polo wear during formal events.

As I near retirement, I have moved squarely into the polo-only crowd. Maintaining other uniforms with wear changes for in-frequent use doesn't serve me much any longer. YMMV

[NIN]

As I near retirement, I have moved squarely into the polo-only crowd. Maintaining other uniforms with wear changes for in-frequent use doesn't serve me much any longer. YMMV

So yeah, unfortunately I have the full-spectrum of uniforms now, partly because I was a wing commander. I had to be "all things to all people all the time" sometimes.  I think the only piece of the puzzle I don't own is that god-awful blue windbreaker, and maybe that goofy winter hat.

Selecting the correct uniform for the formality/gravity of the event was important in that role. Can't tell you how many CPU cycles I wasted going back and forth with units about "What is the UoD for the event?" or "What will everybody else be wearing?" and such.  "Just tell me: is everybody going to be in blues? OK, cool."

Why? Because as the commander there was a certain amount of "formality" that the wing commander coming to your unit should bring, and I needed to represent the wing correctly to the membership.

Everybody is in short-sleeve blues? Awesome. I'll ditch the coat. Thank you!
Its a more formal promotion night? I'll be there in service dress. Especially if the awardees are in service dress.
Got the adjutant general coming to present a Mitchell Awards? Excellent, I'll be there in service dress (but the adjutant general, being an Army guy and on his way home from JFHQ, was in OCPs... Oh well, can't win them all)
If you're in ABUs, sure, I'll show up in ABUs, no problem. No need to look like a raisin in the yoghurt, so to speak.
Its a mission and I'm flying right seat?  I'm in a flight suit.

But I would also wear corporate service dress to community events or conferences where there were either outside folks or a substantial senior presence.
Squadron aircrew meeting? Polo shirt, or maybe aviators.
Mission where I'm working in the comm room?  Blue BDUs
Mission where I didn't get to the barber this week? Corporate Flight Duty Uniform it is.

Its ok to wear the corporate uniform if you need to. Its OK to wear the polo if you need to.

Whats not really OK though is to default to the polo shirt for "everything."  Because thats not appropriate in all cases. But it was about picking the right uniform primarily for the formality of the event. 

Attached is a little graphic aid I came up with to distribute to our units and give them an idea of the categories of uniforms and their rough equivalents, especially to civilian attire (which, BTW, is OK to wear if you don't have the correct uniform!).

The 39-1 changed in 2020 to give the polo legitimacy as a "sometimes Class B/service dress equivalent," but I think everybody can agree that most of the time it is not really that.  And it is still not a substitute for the minimum basic service uniform.

[blackrain]

At the risk of pouring more fuel onto this uniform fire I'll jump in.

I see WAY more obsession with dress uniforms in CAP than I ever did on active duty. Go figure.

The vast majority of those who seem to really really love putting on the dress uniforms never served, and this is their way of playing military.

Of those who did serve most did the "corporate military" I.E. never got far from a climate-controlled/clean environment.

I remember when ABUs first hit the field and in a hot desert people were cooking in the thick material. Joked at the time that a general somewhere needed to stay warm in his over air-conditioned Pentagon Office. Probably got a kickback from the uniform contractor.

Finally, I do still have a nice dress uniform in my closet from my AD days that was not worn much that I'm sure my family will get their revenge by burying me in it one day. Just my observations. YMMV

[Paul Creed III]

As I near retirement, I have moved squarely into the polo-only crowd. Maintaining other uniforms with wear changes for in-frequent use doesn't serve me much any longer. YMMV

So yeah, unfortunately I have the full-spectrum of uniforms now, partly because I was a wing commander. I had to be "all things to all people all the time" sometimes.  I think the only piece of the puzzle I don't own is that god-awful blue windbreaker, and maybe that goofy winter hat.

Hey now, I own that windbreaker and it ain't that bad ;-)

So, reading between the lines, does this mean you own the chicken tracks scarf? ;-)

In all seriousness, I was the same way in my logic on matching (or exceeding such as being in service dress for awards/presentations) the UOD as often and as closely as possible when I started by first command tour.

[SARDOC]

I see WAY more obsession with dress uniforms in CAP than I ever did on active duty.

Did a few years Navy,  Dress Uniform worn less than 20 times.
Army National Guard (reserve), Dress Uniform exactly Zero times.  Never even had my sergeant stripes stitched on. Turned  it in the same exact packaging it was issued in. 

[NIN]

So, reading between the lines, does this mean you own the chicken tracks scarf? ;-)

Oh, hell, I forgot about that dumb thing. No. If you see me wearing that, its a duress sign. Watch for eye blinks in morse code for more clues.

[Stonewall]

For what it's worth, I have worn my service dress more times as a CAP wing commander (I have 120 days left) than in 10 years in the Army/Army Guard and 20 years in the Air National Guard, including 17 1/2 years of active duty service.

I do not enjoy wearing the service dress, it's too stuffy.  I prefer the pre-McPeak style service dress (polyesters) and didn't have a problem wearing those.

In CAP we wear blues at events the modern day Air Force doesn't. In the past 10 years I've been to dozens of Air Force conferences hosted by MAJCOMs and/or career field specific. Never once have I worn blues. All have been in ABU/OCP (or flights suits for flyers).

[Stonewall]

Looking over my promotions in the Air Force (I came in as an E-5 due to prior service in the Army), every single promotion up through CMSgt was done in ABU/OCPs.

Fun fact: since we are required to maintain a full set of serviceable blues, we have our annual blues inspection every December during our drill weekend. However, as a unit fundraiser, I created "buy your way out of blues" since 2018. You have two options, wear your service dress or BRING your service dress on a hanger and donate $20 to the squadron's emergency relief and retirement gift fund.

I ALWAYS wear my blues that day because some airmen do, but 90% do opt to carry their blues in for the "inspection."