Cadet Recruit in BDUs- "Issue" or "Non-issues"?

[907JenS]

How many problems can you help me see with this picture...

I realize this is a "High class" problem- Over eager enthusiastic teenager (age 16) has applied to CAP, but not processed yet by National and thus does not have CAP ID yet.  She already has BDUs, with names tapes.

The week before our conference, being held on military facilities base education center, this recruit called Wing Administrator for permission to attend conference and get on base secuity authorization list.  I got a call at 6AM on day of conference that recruit was at the gate but was not being admitted, not on the list.  Her parent had DOD card, but not to admit any others-her daughter.  Other CAP Cadet Sponsor members did not have "escort" privileges on base but found another senior member that was retiree-who could escort others, but sent her son with recruit and retiree to avoid 1-1 senior cadet contact situation.

So "recruit" is at conference, on Military base, in uniform, without parent, without CAP Membership.
  Is Okay for her to wear uniform? 
  Is it Okay for her to be at CAP activity without parent?
  How much can she participate?
  My first guess is no flying, no cap vehicles, no drill, no pt--but aerospace activity project in classroom setting?
  Should she have to remove over blouse and just wear t-shirt?
  Should anyone say anything to young lady (not cadet)?  Or not! Or just to her commander?
  I am certain that she will be an outstanding cadet- not wanting to quash any of her initiative or enthusiasm at all.
  Commander still thought cadet required female senior member, vs. male senior member for being driver.
 
Please comment! Or PM.

[lordmonar]

1)  It is not okay for non-members to wear our uniform.
2)  It is not okay to allow non-members to particpate in CAP activites.
3)  Any problems about this individual needs to be addressed to her prospective commander.
4)  What is this 1-1 senior cadet contact situation you are refering too.....there is no such rule....beyond a CYA issue.  Same issue with the female vs male driver.  There is no such rule and commanders need to read the friggin manual!
5)  It is allowable for non CAP members to ride in CAP vans....we do it all the time to transport cadets and their parents from the front gate to the meeting location.
6)  How much can non members particpate?  They may observe and particpate in "regular" squadron meetings while decideing to join or waiting for their applications to be processed.....anything else puts CAP and YOU in a liability issue.
7)  What is there to say to the young cadet.  I bet she thought she was invited and was doing what she was told.

[Al Sayre]

I've found that most cadet memberships show up on eServices within 2 or 3 days of mailing in the application to NHQ.  As soon as the cadet shows up in eServices, they can print a temporary membership card and the problem is solved.  The regular card usually follows within 2 to 3 weeks...

That being said, the Squadron Commander/DCC/Admin/Personnel officer who is processing memberships needs to make it clear to new members that before they can do anything other than attend a local squadron meeting, they have to be on the roles in eServices and this can take up to a week for Cadets and sometimes two weeks for SM's.  They also need to send the applications in promptly (in the mail on the next business day is my general standard) to avoid situations like this.

[EMT-83]

This not-yet-member needs a serious sit down and talking to.

It's not okay for non-members to wear the uniform.

It's not okay to jump the chain of command and call Wing HQ.

It's not okay for her to jeopardize the relationship with the base with her behavior.

[Eclipse]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

I don't see any issue with no parental involvement, that's all too common, and sometimes it's a good thing from the
cadet's perspective.  Unlike the BSA, we have no expectation of parental membership or involvement in activities.

5)  It is allowable for non CAP members to ride in CAP vans....we do it all the time to transport cadets and their parents from the front gate to the meeting location.

See 77-1
Except for the below listed exclusions, only CAP members are permitted to ride as passengers in COVs, TUVs or golf cart type utility vehicles. Non-members may ride as passengers when their presence contributes to the CAP program. Region and wing commanders shall approve, in writing, non-member passengers in advance of travel.

[jimmydeanno]

Is Okay for her to wear uniform?  No.  It is not OK for them to wear the CAP uniform.  Wearing the uniform implies association with the organization and implies certain authority and responsibility.  Essentially, it is misrepresentation.

Is it Okay for her to be at CAP activity without parent?  As a non-member, at an outside activity?  I would not be OK with a non-member hanging out at something like a conference without a parent.  Essentially, this implies that I would be responsible for this child, and without membership, I wouldn't prefer to do that.  There are activities that I have done with non-members (dependent model rocketry day), where the parents dropped their kids off, we taught them about rockets, and launched them.  They were all non-members, and under my care.  However, the scenario is different, and the rules, etc were set in advance.

How much can she participate?  I would limit her to attending regular weekly meetings until her membership processes.  Have her wear jeans and a t-shirt until the membership paperwork goes through.  I wouldn't have a problem with a potential member going through the PT stuff.  Some other units may.

Should anyone say anything to young lady (not cadet)?  Or not! Or just to her commander?  It really is an issue that should be dealt with by her commander.  While it may be tempting to inform her, most likely it'll come across as "hey kid, get off my lawn!"  In reality, it is an issue that shouldn't have arisen.

Commander still thought cadet required female senior member, vs. male senior member for being driver: Not a requirement in any way, whatsoever.
 

[SARDOC]

I wouldn't have a problem with a potential member going through the PT stuff.  Some other units may.

We are one of those units.  We do not have a cadets or seniors participate in any PT activities or really any activities other than meetings until they have a CAPID.  There is a reporting procedure and possible insurance benefits available in the event that there was an injury for CAP members.  We don't want to be liable for someone who is not even a member. 

[nesagsar]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

Why?

[davidsinn]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

Why?

It's not normal.

[Eclipse]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

Why?

It's not normal.

Exactly, it opens several possibilities:

Positive -
Excited cadet who lives near an MCSS, has parents in the military, or a Type A+ mom who ordered the uniform and tapes the day they came back from
their first meeting.  The fact that parents have some sort of DoD base access points to this.

Negative -
A troubled adolescent who may well have already been impersonating a CAP member, was terminated from a previous squadron, or has been transient to CAP because of parents DoD affiliation.

Either way it indicates a predilection of putting the cart before the horse, which will likely need to be tempered and observed.
I would have the same "interest" with a senior who showed up in uniform the day he hands in his application.

[tsrup]

Or the other side to this was a miscommunication between whoever was showing this cadet around the squadron..

To someone who may be enthusiastic about joining CAP hearing things like "you'll need a uniform" doesn't necessarily come across as "when you get your CAP ID you'll need...".

Throw in an after squadron announcement about wing conference with all the details and encouraging as many people to show up as possible, without mentioning the stipulation that the member has to be a member to attend first...

Sound like things we have all done or said at a meeting at one point or another?


Seriously, without all of the details there is no reason to assume that this was nothing more than an embarrassing misunderstanding for the parties involved and anything else is really just reading to far into the situation.

[Extremepredjudice]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

Why?

It's not normal.

Exactly, it opens several possibilities:

Positive -
Excited cadet who lives near an MCSS, has parents in the military, or a Type A+ mom who ordered the uniform and tapes the day they came back from
their first meeting.  The fact that parents have some sort of DoD base access points to this.

Negative -
A troubled adolescent who may well have already been impersonating a CAP member, was terminated from a previous squadron, or has been transient to CAP because of parents DoD affiliation.

Either way it indicates a predilection of putting the cart before the horse, which will likely need to be tempered and observed.
I would have the same "interest" with a senior who showed up in uniform the day he hands in his application.

How many 16 year olds have a credit card to order tapes? Jus' saying. not many.

[SarDragon]

How many 16 year olds have a credit card to order tapes? Jus' saying. not many.

I had a checking account as a 16 yo. Who needs plastic?

[Eclipse]

How many 16 year olds have a credit card to order tapes? Jus' saying. not many.

Paypal.

Pre-paid debit cards.

"Mom, I need your credit card number to order these tapes..."

[nesagsar]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

Why?

It's not normal.

Exactly, it opens several possibilities:

Positive -
Excited cadet who lives near an MCSS, has parents in the military, or a Type A+ mom who ordered the uniform and tapes the day they came back from
their first meeting.  The fact that parents have some sort of DoD base access points to this.

Negative -
A troubled adolescent who may well have already been impersonating a CAP member, was terminated from a previous squadron, or has been transient to CAP because of parents DoD affiliation.

Either way it indicates a predilection of putting the cart before the horse, which will likely need to be tempered and observed.
I would have the same "interest" with a senior who showed up in uniform the day he hands in his application.

For my first uniform I used tapes from my father's old uniform because the ones I ordered were going to be too late for my next meeting.

[davidsinn]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

Why?

It's not normal.

Exactly, it opens several possibilities:

Positive -
Excited cadet who lives near an MCSS, has parents in the military, or a Type A+ mom who ordered the uniform and tapes the day they came back from
their first meeting.  The fact that parents have some sort of DoD base access points to this.

Negative -
A troubled adolescent who may well have already been impersonating a CAP member, was terminated from a previous squadron, or has been transient to CAP because of parents DoD affiliation.

Either way it indicates a predilection of putting the cart before the horse, which will likely need to be tempered and observed.
I would have the same "interest" with a senior who showed up in uniform the day he hands in his application.

For my first uniform I used tapes from my father's old uniform because the ones I ordered were going to be too late for my next meeting.

Blue and white?

[lordmonar]

A 16-year old who already has BDUs with tapes would raise my eyebrows. 

I don't see any issue with no parental involvement, that's all too common, and sometimes it's a good thing from the
cadet's perspective.  Unlike the BSA, we have no expectation of parental membership or involvement in activities.

5)  It is allowable for non CAP members to ride in CAP vans....we do it all the time to transport cadets and their parents from the front gate to the meeting location.

See 77-1
Except for the below listed exclusions, only CAP members are permitted to ride as passengers in COVs, TUVs or golf cart type utility vehicles. Non-members may ride as passengers when their presence contributes to the CAP program. Region and wing commanders shall approve, in writing, non-member passengers in advance of travel.

We got that already.

[johnnyb47]

Wait... there's a teenager excited about getting started in the program? Oh... my... god.....
Must be a sign of the apocalypse.

[Hawk200]

Wait... there's a teenager excited about getting started in the program? Oh... my... god.....
Must be a sign of the apocalypse.

Excited about getting started in the uniform isn't an issue. One showing up looking the part, without having the part is a worrisome situation. Where else might this potential cadet be wearing the uniform?

Second, jumping the chain of command so quickly indicates some potential (notice the potential, not necessarily actual) troubles down the road. How do we know the next question won't be asked of the National commander? How did this not even a member yet individual find the number for a wing level office so quickly.

I'm with Eclipse on this one, there seems to be a history here. Then again, it may just be a highly motivated individual. The person bears watching though.

[tsrup]

Wait... there's a teenager excited about getting started in the program? Oh... my... god.....
Must be a sign of the apocalypse.

Excited about getting started in the uniform isn't an issue. One showing up looking the part, without having the part is a worrisome situation. Where else might this potential cadet be wearing the uniform?

Second, jumping the chain of command so quickly indicates some potential (notice the potential, not necessarily actual) troubles down the road. How do we know the next question won't be asked of the National commander? How did this not even a member yet individual find the number for a wing level office so quickly.

I'm with Eclipse on this one, there seems to be a history here. Then again, it may just be a highly motivated individual. The person bears watching though.

Or excited and unclear on the procedures we have in place.... she is new after all..

"the sky is falling... the sky is falling..."