Exhibition Drill

[AmericanRifleSpinner]

So I have been a member of CAP for 3 years now. I was also in jrotc but I've already graduated. Well drill has always been my passion. Spinning a rifle is something im good at and I do it all the time. Well tonight, a parent of a new cadet complained about me drilling and now the senior members have banned spinning rifles and even removed me off the color guard. I would spin my rifle all the time before a meeting and I did that for years and only now are senior members having a heart attack about it.
Now I respect the idea of the whole safety thing but truthfully I think its just starting to get out of hand. I'd never spin a rifle if another cadet was too close and ran the risk of getting hit. If a cadet acted dumb and would purposely walk too close, I would tell them to back up. Safety is my main priority when it comes to spinning a rifle but I mean this whole safety thing is just getting out of hand now.
So whats the deal with rifle spinning? Why is it that all these people are freaking out about this? And, should cadets be allowed to spin rifles like they do in jrotc?

[arajca]

In general, CAP does not do rifle spinning. Our drill teams do not carry rifles, pistols, or sword - to the dissapointment of many a cadet.

My recommendation, not knowing anything about your unit, would be to POLITELY ask why.

A case that happened in a unit I work with - two cadet were good at rifle demonstration. During the presentation of the colors at the start of the meeting, after posting, they faced the audience while in front of the flags and spent the next five minutes doing rifle tricks. Entirely inappropriate time for that. The focus there is the American and state flags, not the guards.

[Eclipse]

Cadets know better then to spin rifles around me, especially with my rifles.

I got tired of replacing rifles and divots in the floor / walls / cadets.

It is also not a part of CAP's culture, which is why you rarely see it, and when you do it is not done properly.

[Al Sayre]

Ditto.  You want to spin rifles, buy your own and do it somewhere away from my building and my cadets unless you are prepared to pay the replacement /repair and hospital bills that result when you make a mistake.   I know spinning rifles looks cool and some people really get into it, but there is a time and place for everything, and a CAP meeting is not the place to be spinning rifles.

[Eclipse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9q7b_2tkMo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKiiPW74pgE

[tsrup]

I teach my cadets exhibition drill.  We have some mock rifles (the indestructible 2x4s that are shown in the Honor Guard manual). 

Some Caveats,
   Exhibition drill does not replace standard drill
   No spinning during color guard practice
   Spinning is only done on the cut outs
   I teach at the pace of the slowest person
   This is purely as an exercise in precision and discipline, not for performance.

As long as it is properly taught and supervised, risk is mitigated.

I would not trust spinning of full weight M1's or replicas to cadets (some just plain aren't strong enough), and they are too expensive. 


Cadet I would talk to your chain of command as to why they won't let you spin at meetings, and remember, no matter what you read here, what they say goes.

The excuse "I'm experienced, so I won't ding the rifle" does not fly.  I have been doing exhibition drill for upwards of 8 years now, and I still drop one from time to time (not often, and usually when I'm trying new stuff, I do it on grass).  So does my colleague who is in the AF honor Guard drill team.

And eclipse, its always funny to watch what could happen when things go wrong. 

But it is excellent to see it when it is done right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsaJu_o1-tY

sometimes its just the inspiration or motivation a cadet needs to try new things within the program.

[HGjunkie]

If you really want to spin rifles, start up an HG. Once you get the basics done, you can start working on exhibition rifle drill/spinning. My HG unit is working on a rifle demonstration performance for an upcoming banquet, and yes I do agree that it takes a lot of time and practice to do it properly.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Before you get into spinning and all that, you should get this good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqZ-mkdp1H0
I know, they are Army, but they are The Guard of The Tomb of The Unknown Soldier, they are the pinnacle of discipline, timing, and professionalism. Get that good, even notice how when the SSG comes to the private patrolling the tomb, they are in step with each other, even though they started at different times, and from different positions. They know their timing, they know their pace count, they even know how to react to each other when a rifle inspection is being performed.
Don't worry about being able to spin your rifle until you can get this good.

[AmericanRifleSpinner]

LOL okay well I'm already great at spinning rifles. I've placed first place in 5 competitions (non CAP). I never spinned my actual demil M1903 at the squadron. I have a cheap wooden 2 pound rifle that I bring to meetings and its always BEFORE the meeting. Never during a meeting. As i said, I stressed safety whenever I even picked up a rifle. Even if it was a practice rifle.
Myself and another cadet spin our full weight rifles outside of the squadron all the time.
I'm not going to say im experienced enough to not drop the rifle or break them. I've gone through 4 of my own personal rifles. I wont use my squadrons rifles to drill with because their for color guard only and I dont want to risk breaking them.
I've tried countless times to get an honor guard started but with no luck as the senior members think it would be too much of a safety risk.

[davidsinn]

I've tried countless times to get an honor guard started but with no luck as the senior members think it would be too much of a safety risk.

Now that's just dumb. It's a part of the program. How can it be too dangerous?

[SarDragon]

I've tried countless times to get an honor guard started but with no luck as the senior members think it would be too much of a safety risk.

Now that's just dumb. It's a part of the program. How can it be too dangerous?

They have an incorrect impression of what Honor Guard does, possibly based on conversations like this one.

[AmericanRifleSpinner]

Yeah well I guess our senior members think an honor guard is too dangerous and I mentioned NOTHING about spinning a rifle. I only mentioned honor guard and they said an honor guard is too dangerous. Its beyond dumb.

[spaatzmom]

Spinning is a very minor part of what an Honor Guard does.  The primary focus is really to be ambassadors of CAP to the public.  Presenting colors at highly visible events makes people aware of the entire CAP organization and can result in recruitment of new members, both cadet and senior.  Assisting in funeral elements with the proper training and approval of the local base, promotes a better understanding and working relationship with the military.  DDR is an Air Force mandated part of the Honor Guard program and the opportunities are endless there with what to do within the community.  Drill presentations are not often requested due to the amount of training needed to do this correctly, the number of people needed, and safety. 

However, I believe the resistance you are encountering may be related to how you are unconsciously presenting yourself to others.  Did you just appear and begin spinning without asking the chain of command if this is possible?  Have you forgone the essential elements of drill and spin exclusively?  Are you using the proper Air Force spinning methods and movements or are they something you have made up on your own?  Someones toes may have been stepped on by your approach.

Perhaps if you had been a 3 year graduate of the CAP NHGA, you might have been more accepted by your command staff.  Col. Mayhew has worked very hard with countless commanders around the country to make NHGA a valuable asset to CAP and promote ways an Honor Guard can assist wings, groups and squadrons in the positive interaction of CAP and the local community.

[tsrup]

^^^^
agreed,

It's all about how you bring this up to your chain.  It's all about how you sell the program to them.

It helps if you do all the work for them before hand.
Create a lesson plan, garner interest.  Set realistic goals and expectations of the program.  Do an ORM worksheet.  It helps if you get everything done and lay it out on the table for your DCC, so you can say that you have a plan.

DO NOT ask your DCC if you can just spin rifles, or teach spinning.   You need to set goals that fall in line with your mission. 


Be the salesman.

And if they say no, don't be bitter about it.   

[AmericanRifleSpinner]

Well when I mention Honor Guard, I dont mention the spinning part. I just mention Honor Guard in general. And I understand the spinning is a small part of the Honor Guard.
And no, I do not just go in with my rifle and start to spin. I would ask the cadet commander if he was okay with it and he would say yes and then I would spin my rifle. When I'm at CAP, I spin my rifle the way the USAF HG does it. I only make up my own moves when Im outside of CAP. When I request to spin my rifle, I'm very polite about it and if they say no, then by all means i am not going to argue with them. But I honestly think that spinning a rifle should not be a big deal. You would think CAP being the Auxiliary of the Air Force spinning would be no problem as long as we did
I would go to NHGA but I dont have the money to go and I'm in the process of moving to another city.

[spaatzmom]

You do realize that your cadet commander has to answer to a higher authority ----- Sq CC.  That commander has the ultimate say considering they are the ones responsible for everything relating to the SQ.  So, is something does happen, they endure the wrath of the group CC and or the wing king.  Not many want to put themselves in that fire-pit if they don't have to.  Who knows, maybe someone prior to you did the same thing with a very poor out come so they are gun shy.  Whatever the reason, they do not need to inform you of the specifics other than denied.  Since they have done that, it is time to let it go and move on.

[AmericanRifleSpinner]

Well you do have a point there and that is a very good point. I dont want anyone else getting in trouble for something I did, even if its something I love to do but I guess I'll just have to deal with it and not turn it into a bigger problem