Veterans Day uniform wear?

[TheSkyHornet]

Ask your commander = Good
Follow your chain of command = Good
Listen to/obey your commander = Good
Your commander can order you to violate the regulations = Bad

How you say things is as important as what you say.

And in addition to this, if you know your commander is ordering you to violate regulations, and you think something improper is occurring, address it with him/her. If it seems to get worse, use the chain of command to address it further if needed.

There's a system in place for this issue.

[Garibaldi]

How is it improper to explain to our young cadets the true nature of our system of leadership?

Are you telling me it is proper to lie to my cadets? 

Now you're just trolling.

Ask your commander = Good
Follow your chain of command = Good
Listen to/obey your commander = Good
Your commander can order you to violate the regulations = Bad

But "Your commander can order you to violate the regulations" is a true statement.
How is telling them that fact bad?

Sure...we got to put it into proper context.......sure we always put in the caveat about using experience, command intention, mission vs regs, safety, legal orders vs order against regulations.

But to say "you should not say such things" is not educating our cadets on the proper use of authority and leadership.

Unless it involves Corporate assets, pretty much anything coming out of your commander's mouth can be either ignored or followed. What is the punishment for not following an "illegal" order not involving cadets or Corporate assets? 2B?

We can't force anyone to do anything. We can't really order anyone to do anything, since either the person being ordered can take their ball and go home, or the commander can just 2B the individual. We have no legal authority over anything but the Corporate assets given us, or cadets' well being. Those I can see having justifiable legal and ethical ramifications.

But not "Thou shalt wear your uniform to school to celebrate the equinox".

[Storm Chaser]

How is it improper to explain to our young cadets the true nature of our system of leadership?

Are you telling me it is proper to lie to my cadets? 

Now you're just trolling.

Ask your commander = Good
Follow your chain of command = Good
Listen to/obey your commander = Good
Your commander can order you to violate the regulations = Bad

But "Your commander can order you to violate the regulations" is a true statement.

So is "but you can refuse to obey his order of you think he's not right."

How is telling them that fact bad?

You answer your own question below.

Sure...we got to put it into proper context.......sure we always put in the caveat about using experience, command intention, mission vs regs, safety, legal orders vs order against regulations.

But to say "you should not say such things" is not educating our cadets on the proper use of authority and leadership.

If you were attempting to "educate" our cadets, then the lesson was incomplete.

Sure, my commander can order me not to follow a regulation. I can also refuse to follow his orders. Which one is right? It depends on the order given, who's giving it, the regulation in question, the circumstances and context of the situation, among other factors. As you know, it's not always black and white, and neither was your statement.

[lordmonar]

How you say things is as important as what you say.

Which if you go back to my original post.....more or less what I said. 

Be careful with telling C/Amn to ignore the lawful orders of their commanders.   And yes squadron commanders can order you to violate regulations.

[lordmonar]

If you were attempting to "educate" our cadets, then the lesson was incomplete.

Sure, my commander can order me not to follow a regulation. I can also refuse to follow his orders. Which one is right? It depends on the order given, who's giving it, the regulation in question, the circumstances and context of the situation, among other factors. As you know, it's not always black and white, and neither was your statement.

So....I was right.....but I did not include the whole one hour education session.

okay...got it.

[Storm Chaser]

If you were attempting to "educate" our cadets, then the lesson was incomplete.

Sure, my commander can order me not to follow a regulation. I can also refuse to follow his orders. Which one is right? It depends on the order given, who's giving it, the regulation in question, the circumstances and context of the situation, among other factors. As you know, it's not always black and white, and neither was your statement.

So....I was right.....but I did not include the whole one hour education session.

okay...got it.

If you would've done right the first time, it would've taken half the time.

[kwe1009]

Please review CAPR 39-1 1.2.4 and 1.2.7 .  If it is not a CAP event or you are not representing CAP in an official capacity then you are NOT authorized to wear the uniform no matter what your commander may say.  Your squadron commander can't authorize you to wear it if it violates 39-1.

Be careful with telling C/Amn to ignore the lawful orders of their commanders.   And yes squadron commanders can order you to violate regulations.

Exactly where did I tell anyone to ignore any order?  I said that the squadron commander can't authorize something and that is true.  The commander could certainly give an unlawful order and if the receiver of that order knows or believes it is unlawful then they should address that with the commander. 

There are many different circumstances here that could change how a person should proceed so I am just talking about wearing the CAP uniform when you should not.

[PHall]

Pat, knock it off, you know better...

[lordmonar]

Sorry.   Sometimes I just can't keep the voices quiet.

[SarDragon]

[Elihu.Lowery]

It is interesting how fast the threads can move sideways on these post and it is intriguing how you can tell how experienced or educated one is by how fast they can find a problem for every solution. You can take a problem to a Jr NCO and get a working solution within a few mins but take the same problem to a SNCO or an Officer and they will take it to a committee and argue over all the points of the issue for a week or more than up channel it to a review board for final determination (since none of them wants to held accountable if its wrong). The Review Board will then down channel the solution to you but by then the mission is already over. This is kind of what happens on these discussion boards. The Cadet asked a simple question about being able to wear the uniform during Veterans Day. What should have been a simple answer has become: No, Yes, maybe, ask the Commander, ignore the Commander, obey the Commander, and/or follow the chain of command. I served over 9yrs in the Air Force and am now employed as a AF civilian Security Forces member I understand the topic of illegal orders but a new CAP Cadet would not have an idea as to what is being discussed and the cadet has wisely dropped this thread like the hot potato that it is. However the simple answer to the question is: Ask your Commander and if the Commander gives the wrong answer then its on the Commander not the Cadet.

[SMWOG]

 :clap: buy that man a drink!

[Pace]

*lock*