Amber Emergency Lights

[commando1]

*Disclaimer...please read the entire topic before flaming me...thank you. I am going to be moving to a state that does allow Emergency Management Agencies to have amber warning lights on vehicles. I am not and will not debate the legality of doing so. I would like to know if any other captalk member had a good experience with any particular brand/type (hide-away/deck/lightbar etc). I have asked all my LEO buddies but they all use top of the line state-of-the-art equipment, i.e expensive and unnecessary.   

[NCRblues]

My state allows amber as well, so does CAP...so no flame...until you want to run code with red/blue 

You can get some really nice strobes for rear mounting in van windows for really cheap from CODE3.....send them an email and tell them who you are and they give 25% discounts...

[Pylon]

Kind of hard to help without a price-range.  Galls.com sells a pretty wide range from cheap dash lights to very elaborate systems.

[commando1]

I am looking to stay under $100. I have decent wiring skills but I am also looking for ease of use. I was just wanting something better than a towtruck beacon. 

[ammotrucker]

I used Code 3 on my semi for years.  They are very reliable, and if they need maint.  Parts are easily available.

[Major Lord]

Dashlights don't give you the protection you need from being rear-ended while stopped on the side of the road. A strobe. LED, or Rotator on the highest point of your car offer the best protection. I suggest a magnetically mounted unit that you can take off. It will keep road noise down, not kill your mileage needlessly, and evil-doers will not rip it off your car. Incandescent units are cheapest, but use motors and bulbs that both wear out. A single strobe is low key, but not really clear to other traffic that you are doing something and would prefer not be run over like a wayward armadillo. LED units are not as bright as Halogen bulbs, but offer electronic flash patterns that let traffic know you are an Emergency vehicle, and smushing you would be un-cool.  E-bay and a bunch of discounters have boatloads of different units, but I would look for a DOT approved unit, and not a CHICOM special . Make sure it gives you 360 degree of coverage. Visibility from the air is an important factor.

Major Lord

[PHall]

Take a look at what the local telephone and/or electrical company has on their vehicles. 

What we use at AT&T here in California is usually a single amber strobe mounted on the roof/ladder rack.
Provides pretty good coverage to the sides and rear of the vehicle. Regular four-way flashers cover the front of the vehicle.

[arajca]

Two questions:

1. Is this for a CAP vehicle?

2. What does your wing say if it is?

[Major Lord]

Two questions:

1. Is this for a CAP vehicle?

2. What does your wing say if it is?

See post #1

[a2capt]

When in doubt, see Post #1.  In this case it says "I'm moving to a state that .. "

[arajca]

I'm not asking about the legality of it. I'm asking if the Op is planning to put it on a CAP vehicle (which is NOT specified in post #1) and if the wing allows amber lights on CAP vehicles (also NOT specified in post #1). Legally, vans can tow trailers, however, some wings, or just mine, do not allow CAP vans to tow trailers. Same type of issue.

[niferous]

Just as a tip check craigslist in your area for "warning ligts" "emergency lights" that sort of thing.  A lot of two truck drivers, construction workers, etc etc use the lights and then switch careers, get new stuff, or just like buying new shiny bright lights.  So they sell the old ones.  My buddy was going into the tow business and scored some nice LED stuff that works well for about 25% of what he would have paid new. 

Also meet in a safe place and bring a charged battery so you can check the lights before purchasing.  LEDs last a really long time so if they work when you get them you'll good. 

[commando1]

 arajca, it is not for a COV if that is what you are asking.

I'm asking if the Op is planning to put it on a CAP vehicle (which is NOT specified in post #1) and if the wing allows amber lights on CAP vehicles (also NOT specified in post #1). Legally, vans can tow trailers, however, some wings, or just mine, do not allow CAP vans to tow trailers. Same type of issue.

I am waiting for monday so that wing will get back to me. I will have permission in writing before ever installing said lights on my vehicle. No I am not attempting to run code and I'm not a whacker or whatever other slang name you have for wannabe's.  It is all about visibility. I'm thinking some hide-aways and a roof beacon run off the cigarette lighter type set-up.

[IceNine]

Don't be a whacker.

Some subtle hide-a-light strobes hidden in the marker lamps is more than enough for the reality that you will probably never use these as the law intends.  Any chances of you ever NEEDING a light are REALLY low.  I've been a volunteer firefighter/EMT for years and I haven't turned my lights on for well over a year, and even then it was because I came upon an accident in my POV, and don't like being hit by cars.

But if you must.

LED's- A little pricey but REALLY bright

Or just a single light that plugs into the lighter port. 
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&cat=&style=DL210

[commando1]

I came upon an accident in my POV, and don't like being hit by cars.

Exactly why I want them. I read a study that found the faster your emergency lights flash the faster people react to them so I'm thinking of getting some strobes. (In this case by not hitting you). The only reason I want more than a single beacon is becuase I want to be a little bit cooler than your average towtruck. 

[IceNine]

But why?

What are the odds of stumbling upon an airplane crash, or being the first person on scene of a missing person?

Your chances of being involved in or seeing an airplane crash are about 1:11,000,000

Chances of stumbling upon a vehicle crash 1:5,000.

Like I said above, your chances of using these lights to the letter and intent of the law is about once in a lifetime.  Anyone who wants lights to be "cooler than a tow truck" is textbook whacker.

[IceNine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsekbcXWFrA

WAY more than you or I or any other volunteer will EVER need.

1 yellow strobe on each corner is more than plenty.  Any flashing light is considerably more visible than a stationary light.  Add it VERY bright LED's and Fast but distinct flashes and you will be as save as possible.

[IceNine]

It's shouldn't go unsaid that NFPA law code requires ANSI class II vests for anyone operating outside of a vehicle w/ emergency lights on.  With the exception of those actively fighting fires.

[Pylon]

There are some non-whacker uses for amber lights that I can think of, but it typically does not require a big amber lightbar.


Our airport requested use of an amber roof strobe on the CAP vehicles that traversed taxiways and things.  This was a regular occurrence because our CAP buildings are on the airport grounds and getting to most places from there, including our hangar, required driving across ramps & taxiways.


And for ground team/UDF type stuff, I can definitely see the benefits of an amber arrow-stick facing the rear of the vehicle.  That's practical, keeps traffic advised that you're there, you're stopped and to move around you, and I think is significantly less whacker than a lightbar.  I'm not sure what a lightbar accomplishes for CAP, because we would never need to warn traffic in front of us.

[Eclipse]

When a private citizen comes upon an accident scene, they should be calling 911, not flipping on their stealth strobes, dropping flares and
pull-starting their jaws-of-life. 

Do what you want on your own time, but if the subject of CAP comes up while you're out there as a private citizen, leave CAP out of it.

As for members, during missions, absent a mandate from your state, the only thing you should be using is this:


And if the state mandates something, then you should ask them what to buy and get the bare minimum acceptable.

As soon as the word "cool" is used anywhere in the situation, you are a whacker.

[cap235629]

It's shouldn't go unsaid that NFPA law requires ANSI class II vests for anyone operating outside of a vehicle w/ emergency lights on.  With the exception of those actively fighting fires.

NFPA law??

[SarDragon]

I have had a number of occasions where I have needed to leave my vehicle at night to DF ELTs. Here in CA, the high places are not accompanied by straight roads, making flashing lights over and above the vehicle's flashers pretty much a necessity. The folks around here use something like this:



And, as noted by Pylon, it's a necessity for on airport operations.

I'd put an arrow stick in my 'Burb, but don't want to mess with the headliner. It's a real PITA.

[IceNine]

It's shouldn't go unsaid that NFPA law requires ANSI class II vests for anyone operating outside of a vehicle w/ emergency lights on.  With the exception of those actively fighting fires.

NFPA law??

That's what you have to offer to this discussion?

NFPA publishes codes and standards not laws.  Most of the NFPA codes and standards are written into law verbatim.

[davidsinn]

But why?

What are the odds of stumbling upon an airplane crash, or being the first person on scene of a missing person?

Your chances of being involved in or seeing an airplane crash are about 1:11,000,000

Chances of stumbling upon a vehicle crash 1:5,000.

Like I said above, your chances of using these lights to the letter and intent of the law is about once in a lifetime.  Anyone who wants lights to be "cooler than a tow truck" is textbook whacker.

There is no such thing as too much visibility. Cops get killed all the time alongside the road even with their lights on.  Your car is what, 5.5'-6.5' wide with just two little flashers? The farm equipment I am around all the time is 12'+ and is lighted like a freaking Christmas tree and people morons still manage to hit it from time to time. I love it when people throw out odds. Yes the odds are against getting hurt but how many times does it take for you to be the injured one for it to matter?

[IceNine]

Ok, lets talk about THIS discussion. 

A cadet wants to put lights on his car to be

I want to be a little bit cooler than your average towtruck.

IF your vehicle is used for UDF AND your locality authorizes their use a couple of flashing strobes in place of the emergency flashers could be considered appropriate.  Certainly a single strobe on top is also appropriate.

Emergency lights are most effective when they are bright and flashing.  An alternating flash pattern of yellow lights where one is always visible is the safest non-whacker configuration.

I honestly don't care how many lights it takes you to be "cool" or "safe".  And I wouldn't contend that there is no need for visibility.  I would however never allow or even encourage that any cadets have emergency vehicle lights. 

On my Fire Department unless you have been active for at least a year you can't even have them in your car, and to have them legally in the state you must have chief approval.  This eliminates the desire to spend way to much money, and drive fast because you have lights.  There is an increased responsibility that comes along with the ability to have lights in your vehicle.  This takes maturity and a level of experience to control the adrenaline.

And to address the reason for this post the any member that wants lights should be asking themselves WHY do you NEED lights?  How many times have you been in a situation in a CAP capacity that you NEEDED lights? How many times were you in your POV?  How many missions a year are you on in your POV? 

If the answer is anything other than a true well thought out "safety" then you don't need them.

It's much more fiscally sound to buy one strobe that can be placed in your go bag and used in any vehicle your in.

[Eclipse]

I didn't catch that this was a cadet.

Under no circumstances should a cadet be installing lights on mom's station wagon their cars under the auspices of CAP.

For starters, cadets would rarely be driving their POV's on missions, and can't drive COV's.

Nearly all wings require the Wing CC to approve emergency lights on POVs, and few would approve it for cadets
(let's all run at the screen now with a hearty, mature, "you can't tell me what to do with my car...")

[lordmonar]

Gee Eclipse......opinionated?

Full of assumptions too.

Cadets come in all ages....some of them OWN THEIR OWN CARS!

Wing can't tell me buckus about what I put on my POV.....they can only approve or disapprove the use of my POV on an ES mission.

As for the idea of having amber strobes......well if they are going to require us to wear ANIS vests....then strobes make a lot of sense.

Just because it is "COOL" looking does not make it a bad idea.

[Eclipse]

Gee Eclipse......opinionated?

duh

Wing can't tell me buckus about what I put on my POV.....they can only approve or disapprove the use of my POV on an ES mission.

(let's all run at the screen now with a hearty, mature, "you can't tell me what to do with my car...")

Congrats on winning the race.

For the record, CAP can does have some power over your POV.  You can't affix CAP insignia without Wing CC approval, as you
say, you can't even use your POV for missions without the same approval, and you can't use emergency lights without CAP approval.
(on CAP time).

As for the idea of having amber strobes......well if they are going to require us to wear ANIS vests....then strobes make a lot of sense.

You won't get a ticket for having an ANSI vest.

Just because it is "COOL" looking does not make it a bad idea.

If you have a mandate within your profession, fine, spend the money on spinners with strobes on them, whatever.
If your reasoning is "Man I dig police cars, and they sure have cool lights...How can I do I do some mental gymnastics and
stretch the sliver of a possibility that some day I will be somewhere that having strobes on my car would be so cool...er..."important"
that I need to go and drop a month's salary on them..." You're a whacker.

Here's another test.

Those who work for an agency or department where the agency or department deems having emergency lights on your vehicle
is important either provide / install them for you, provide detailed instructions as to what and where to buy them, or at the least provide within the regulations what is required.

The single biggest issue here is not the lights, it is the attitude, and for every one of us who would go to Autozone and buy the $40 LED turn signal / reverse light strobes and only turn them on during missions, there is at least one goof who will be using them every time it rains, or when "helping a motorist on the side of the road".

And who do those goofs encounter regularly?  FD's and LEA's exactly the people with whom we already have limited credibility.

Are you a volunteer fireman, donut salesman, or meter reader?  Fine, then you already have authorization and shouldn't look to CAP as another excuse for burning DC amps, otherwise, 99.9999999% of members have no use for emergency strobes, and even those who actually have a random legit need, won't use them more than once or twice a year.

[cap235629]

Nearly all wings require the Wing CC to approve emergency lights on POVs,

Yeah right, MY CAR I can do anything I want. He can tell me to park for a mission but that is as far as it goes.

[Eclipse]

There's also nothing that makes a CUL happier than to hear the capacitor charging of an incorrectly installed strobe light being broadcast over an incorrectly installed CAP radio.

They also cause interference on L-Pers.

[cap235629]

Again it may be a ticketable offense to have amber lights on your car in ILLINOIS but that is not the case everywhere.

[Eclipse]

Again it may be a ticketable offense to have amber lights on your car in ILLINOIS but that is not the case everywhere.

It is a ticket-able offense in all jurisdiction if the officer deems you are using them improperly.

Even I won't engage in a silly argument about simply possessing the lights themselves.

[Major Lord]

*Disclaimer...please read the entire topic before flaming me...thank you. I am going to be moving to a state that does allow Emergency Management Agencies to have amber warning lights on vehicles. I am not and will not debate the legality of doing so. I would like to know if any other captalk member had a good experience with any particular brand/type (hide-away/deck/lightbar etc). I have asked all my LEO buddies but they all use top of the line state-of-the-art equipment, i.e expensive and unnecessary.

I was so impressed with your initial post, and how you would not be sucked into a devolving thread and involve endless and pointless commentary from arguably some of the most dysfunctional people in CAP. Its too bad that you broke radio silence and invited vampires into your house. Its only a matter of time now until it turns into a uniform argument. Darn...

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

Lord, you know that isn't how it works in CAP, especially for cadets.

When a member, especially a cadet, asks you for advice on something which is a bad idea, you don't advise them on the best way to
perform that bad idea and then pin an asterisk to your answer.

You tell them, directly, to knock it off.  At least that is what we are supposed to do.

"Sir, I don't want to debate the legality of breaking the law or impacting my reputation, I'd just like to you to help me do it in the coolest way possible."

[Major Lord]

He should properly ask his own chain of command, which it sounds like he is doing. He made the mistake of asking here, thinking he could limit it to the technology available, but the C-Squared's on this board could not resist offering condemnation without information. That is how it works here. He will know better in the future.

Major Lord

[IceNine]

Again it may be a ticketable offense to have amber lights on your car in ILLINOIS but that is not the case everywhere.

Having emergency lights of any color in any state is a ticketable offence if you aren't using them according to the associated rules, regulations, codes, laws, etc. 

This includes being appropriately approved by the organization you are choosing to use as justification, if so written.  This may be as simple as having a membership card, or as complex as your wing commander writing a letter justifying your individual use on specific vehicles.

[cap235629]

Again it may be a ticketable offense to have amber lights on your car in ILLINOIS but that is not the case everywhere.

Having emergency lights of any color in any state is a ticketable offence if you aren't using them according to the associated rules, regulations, codes, laws, etc. 

This includes being appropriately approved by the organization you are choosing to use as justification, if so written.  This may be as simple as having a membership card, or as complex as your wing commander writing a letter justifying your individual use on specific vehicles.

Not in Arkansas.  So stop making blanket statements. Amber lights are treated the same as hazard flashers in Arkansas.

[Eclipse]

Not in Arkansas.  So stop making blanket statements. Amber lights are treated the same as hazard flashers in Arkansas.

Arkansas Code Title 27-49-219

(C) (i) Motor vehicles owned by state, county, and municipal agencies whose use is determined by the state agency to be required for dangerous or hazardous services and motor vehicles owned by public service corporations or private individuals whose use is determined by the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles, in accordance with regulations established by the commissioner to prevent abuses thereof, to be for extra hazardous service, may be equipped with amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights that shall not qualify them as emergency vehicles, but which shall during hazardous uses display their amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights in order that other motorists and the public may be aware of the special or hazardous use of the vehicles and shall exercise caution in approaching the vehicles at all times while the amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights are in operation.

(2) It shall be unlawful to install, operate, or use any rotating or flashing light on any motor vehicle except as authorized in this subsection.

(e) "School bus" means:

(1) A motor vehicle designed to carry more than ten (10) passengers:

(A) Owned by a public or a governmental agency or a private school and operated for the transportation of students to or from school or school-sponsored activities; or

(B) Privately owned and operated for compensation for the transportation of students to or from school or school-sponsored activities; and

(2) A motor vehicle designed to carry more than twenty-five (25) passengers is exempt from this section if the motor vehicle is:

(A) Owned by a public or a governmental agency or a private school and operated for the transportation of students to or from school-sponsored activities but not used to transport students on any scheduled school bus route; or

(B) Privately owned and operated for compensation under contract to a school district and used for the transportation of students to or from school-sponsored activities.

Looks about the same as most other states to me....

[cap235629]

Ok let Google be your guide, not a 12 year veteran Arkansas Police Officer. The reality is I said "treated".

everyone from storm chasers to mailmen run amber lights in Arkansas.

I am so glad I am not in Eclipse land, because he knows EVERYTHING! There would be nothing left for anyone else!

[Eclipse]

Ok let Google be your guide, not a 12 year veteran Arkansas Police Officer. The reality is I said "treated".

everyone from storm chasers to mailmen run amber lights in Arkansas.

Storm chasers and mailmen may well fall directly into the statute quoted, random POV's do not, and in fact
are specifically prohibited from even having them installed.

Further, it is a crime to even posses a blue light unless it is in its original packaging.

Just because the statute is not uniformly enforced, doesn't change the facts.   Your insinuation has been that Arkansas
is somehow different from other states, when in fact, at least as far as the law is written, they are actually more strict
than many others.

I would also bet a Trente that given the right mix of doofus behavior on someone's part, you or anyone else would enforce
every statute you could find.

There's a lot of things that are only enforced when they are enforced - window tint, front license plates, even seat belts,
that doesn't make them "kinda legal".

[IceNine]

Doesn't matter what state you are in.  The statement I made is always true, try something new and read what I said.

I specifically said if not using them according to the laws, codes, etc of your locality it is a ticketable offence.  If Arkansas or wherever says Everyone can use them, you are using them according to your law.

Ok let Google be your guide, not a 12 year veteran Arkansas Police Officer. The reality is I said "treated".

everyone from storm chasers to mailmen run amber lights in Arkansas.

I am so glad I am not in Eclipse land, because he knows EVERYTHING! There would be nothing left for anyone else!

Interesting that the details are killer until you get caught in the.  And for the record he doesn't have to know it, google does.

Just because you and your buddies turn your head doesn't make it more or less legal.

[cap235629]

Gentlemen,

Use your google-fu to produce 1 citation in case law where such an offense has ever been enforced in Arkansas.  Then and only then will I back off my position.

Also I am specifically referring to amber lights, not blue, red, white or green.

[Eclipse]

Do you speak for every jurisdiction in Arkansas?

I am also referring to amber lights, which the law prohibits, specifically.  I only raised the blue as an example
of an area where Arkansas is actually more strict that many states.

[IceNine]

Not the way this works, sir.

We discredited your statement, now it's time to discredit ours or make a new one. 

Debate 101 for reference

[JoeTomasone]

To address the OPs question, I use a dual-rotator mag-mount lightbar that cost me about $200.00.   It's bright, gives 360 degree visibility, and is removable in 3 minutes should the need arise.   Check Northern Tool for some decent models at decent prices.

To add to the debate:

Florida Law does not permit amber rotating lights on POVs.   However, after nearly being hit during blackout conditions after a hurricane, and having almost been clipped during a UDF mission while out of the vehicle, I have taken the position that a ticket is far less of a concern to me than potentially being injured.   Therefore, I use it when outside of the vehicle (taking bearings, etc), on an airfield (as directed by competent airport authority), and in any other case in which I determine that it adds safety to a given situation.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

[cap235629]

To address the OPs question, I use a dual-rotator mag-mount lightbar that cost me about $200.00.   It's bright, gives 360 degree visibility, and is removable in 3 minutes should the need arise.   Check Northern Tool for some decent models at decent prices.

To add to the debate:

Florida Law does not permit amber rotating lights on POVs.   However, after nearly being hit during blackout conditions after a hurricane, and having almost been clipped during a UDF mission while out of the vehicle, I have taken the position that a ticket is far less of a concern to me than potentially being injured.   Therefore, I use it when outside of the vehicle (taking bearings, etc), on an airfield (as directed by competent airport authority), and in any other case in which I determine that it adds safety to a given situation.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Eclipse]

Bill,

Applaud all you want - you contended a number of times that Arkansas was somehow "different" than other states.
It was shown they are no different than anyone else, and are probably more strict than other states.

So then you respond that it is irrelevant because no one in your state enforces that law.

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

[IceNine]

To address the OPs question, I use a dual-rotator mag-mount lightbar that cost me about $200.00.   It's bright, gives 360 degree visibility, and is removable in 3 minutes should the need arise.   Check Northern Tool for some decent models at decent prices.

To add to the debate:

Florida Law does not permit amber rotating lights on POVs.   However, after nearly being hit during blackout conditions after a hurricane, and having almost been clipped during a UDF mission while out of the vehicle, I have taken the position that a ticket is far less of a concern to me than potentially being injured.   Therefore, I use it when outside of the vehicle (taking bearings, etc), on an airfield (as directed by competent airport authority), and in any other case in which I determine that it adds safety to a given situation.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

That is a liability that you have been fully informed of and chosen to undertake. 

At the very least you should open any discussions with "its not allowed".  A member taking a risk with no beliefs that what they are do acceptable is leaps and bounds different than members accepting unknown risk.

[JoeTomasone]

That is a liability that you have been fully informed of and chosen to undertake. 

Yep.   And I should add that it has been both seen by and used in the presence of LEOs from various departments, none of which appeared to show the slightest interest.    My supposition is that we're "all on the same team", so to speak, doing "good things", and thus are viewed differently somehow.

[IceNine]

I don't disagree...

You know as well as I do though that a clean setup that looks like it is supposed to be there, run by people that are acting professional won't raise any eyebrow (Most of the time).  Adding any "cool factor" and pretending that you're entitled to lights is a trap.

I am not telling anyone not to put lights on their car, I'm saying EVERYONE should calculate the risk to gain ratio of adding lights to their cars.

If you can get approval legally, please do so.  But a cadet being handed a $75 ticket or more can't say "Capt Tomasone said I was alright".  And telling anyone in the organization that you can have lights in Florida is incorrect.  Telling them the risk, and letting them make a decision without saying "they probably won't say anything" is ok.

[SarDragon]

OK, help me out here. Where did we establish that the OP is a cadet? I searched the thread, and the word cadet isn't in any of his posts. Do any of you know him personally?

[cap235629]

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

Of course I can't speak for all jurisdictions. I applauded because, wait for it, it made sense. I know that your world is all about black and white. Your rigidness and inability to use common sense makes me glad that you never served a day in your life in the military or have ever served as a law enforcement officer. An outlook such as yours gets people killed.

My point is simple. Using an amber light in Arkansas will not, in my experience which is much more than yours, be looked at any differently than using your flashers.  I have seen them on everything from a farmers tractor to a golf cart.  I would be hard pressed to find a judge you would NOT tick off for wasting his/her time by writing such a citation.  Just because you have the authority does not mean you have to use it. Common sense is still the rule in a free state like Arkansas.  This is precisely why I moved here rather than to states like Illinois or California.  I had enough of the authoritarian mindset when I lived in Massachusetts.

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

[a2capt]

OK, help me out here. Where did we establish that the OP is a cadet?

Participation in the "You know you're a CAP cadet if... " thread.
Plus: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=11349.msg216892#msg216892 and other posts where it's been claimed/admitted as well as the general direction of topic participation direction.

[SarDragon]

I sit chastised, humbled, and corrected.

Now back to our regularly scheduled UC.

[IceNine]

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

Of course I can't speak for all jurisdictions. I applauded because, wait for it, it made sense. I know that your world is all about black and white. Your rigidness and inability to use common sense makes me glad that you never served a day in your life in the military or have ever served as a law enforcement officer. An outlook such as yours gets people killed.

My point is simple. Using an amber light in Arkansas will not, in my experience which is much more than yours, be looked at any differently than using your flashers.  I have seen them on everything from a farmers tractor to a golf cart.  I would be hard pressed to find a judge you would NOT tick off for wasting his/her time by writing such a citation.  Just because you have the authority does not mean you have to use it. Common sense is still the rule in a free state like Arkansas.  This is precisely why I moved here rather than to states like Illinois or California.  I had enough of the authoritarian mindset when I lived in Massachusetts.

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

Precisely the problem.  You are arguing that you can have them because you like them or simply don't like rules.  Not something you should be passing along as a rule.  Ignoring that rules exist get's people killed, just as much as those that adhere to them so strictly you can't see past them.

Common sense here say's you don't tell a cadet he can have illegal lights on his car.  It says you offer the facts and let him decide.  Actively promoting the use, doesn't make you proactive, it just means you can ignore things when you don't agree with them.

[cap235629]

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

Of course I can't speak for all jurisdictions. I applauded because, wait for it, it made sense. I know that your world is all about black and white. Your rigidness and inability to use common sense makes me glad that you never served a day in your life in the military or have ever served as a law enforcement officer. An outlook such as yours gets people killed.

My point is simple. Using an amber light in Arkansas will not, in my experience which is much more than yours, be looked at any differently than using your flashers.  I have seen them on everything from a farmers tractor to a golf cart.  I would be hard pressed to find a judge you would NOT tick off for wasting his/her time by writing such a citation.  Just because you have the authority does not mean you have to use it. Common sense is still the rule in a free state like Arkansas.  This is precisely why I moved here rather than to states like Illinois or California.  I had enough of the authoritarian mindset when I lived in Massachusetts.

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

Precisely the problem.  You are arguing that you can have them because you like them or simply don't like rules.  Not something you should be passing along as a rule.  Ignoring that rules exist get's people killed, just as much as those that adhere to them so strictly you can't see past them.

Common sense here say's you don't tell a cadet he can have illegal lights on his car.  It says you offer the facts and let him decide.  Actively promoting the use, doesn't make you proactive, it just means you can ignore things when you don't agree with them.

Show me where I told anyone to use anything, cadet or senior.  I was pointing out that once again the omnipotent Eclipse was making blanket statements that may or may not be true everywhere.

I never promoted the use nor advised against it.

[Eclipse]

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

Clearly.

[Eclipse]

Show me where I told anyone to use anything, cadet or senior.  I was pointing out that once again the omnipotent Eclipse was making blanket statements that may or may not be true everywhere.

Actually, my "blanket statement" turned out to be 100% true in Arkansas where you apparently simply ignore laws you are supposed to enforce.

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Change you argument all you want, try to make it a personal attack, or spin it ad infinitum. It doesn't change the facts or the law.

[cap235629]

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Once again showing your ignorance of anywhere outside of your little world.  Fact is in Arkansas, tractors routinely travel on highways and in fact have the right of way.  They also tow just as many "vehicles in distress" as wreckers do.

[Eclipse]

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Once again showing your ignorance of anywhere outside of your little world.  Fact is in Arkansas, tractors routinely travel on highways and in fact have the right of way.  They also tow just as many "vehicles in distress" as wreckers do.

Give me a break "my little world"?

You're seriously going to try and spin this to mean that the fact that a tractor having a blinky light is the same as a POV?  Wait, I know, outside my "little world" everyone drives tractors as their POV.  How far are you going to stretch to try and prove you were
right despite the facts?

How big is your jurisdiction?  A county, a township, city? 

[cap235629]

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Once again showing your ignorance of anywhere outside of your little world.  Fact is in Arkansas, tractors routinely travel on highways and in fact have the right of way.  They also tow just as many "vehicles in distress" as wreckers do.

Give me a break "my little world"?

You're seriously going to try and spin this to mean that the fact that a tractor having a blinky light is the same as a POV?  Wait, I know, outside my "little world" everyone drives tractors as their POV.  How far are you going to stretch to try and prove you were
right despite the facts?

How big is your jurisdiction?  A county, a township, city?

I some parts of the state you will see tractors in Wal-Mart parking lots. I am no longer a law enforcement officer but when I resigned it was for a Sheriff's Office.  And in Arkansas the Sheriff is truly the "King" of the county.  Not that it matters but all courts are district courts and circuit courts that fall under the same rules. Mayors courts and municipal courts are a thing of the past.

So what was your point about jurisdiction? All Law Enforcement Officers receive the same training in Arkansas.

[Eclipse]

I am no longer a law enforcement officer

I'm done..

[cap235629]

So what was your point about jurisdiction? All Law Enforcement Officers receive the same training in Arkansas.

Because I am curious regarding the scope of your influence.  Size and scope of the jurisdiction generally shapes the attitude.
Officers in NY have different priorities from those in Fargo.

Now who is stereotyping?

And at one time I worked in a city of over 1/2 a million and in a town of 1500. So what is your point again?

[Eclipse]

See above...

[cap235629]

I am no longer a law enforcement officer

I'm done..

I would much rather be a "has been" than a "never was".

Are you somehow disparaging my service because I changed careers?  The amount of BS I had to put up with as a cop far outweighed the rewards.  I met a lot of people who knew everything and I developed a strong dislike for them. It made me grumpy and I sought out a better way to live....

When was the last time you put your life in constant and direct  jeopardy out of a selfless sense of duty again?

Oh that's right, you never have......

Back to your regularly scheduled episode of the world according to Bob from Chicago.....

[caphornbuckle]

*Disclaimer...please read the entire topic before flaming me...thank you. I am going to be moving to a state that does allow Emergency Management Agencies to have amber warning lights on vehicles. I am not and will not debate the legality of doing so. I would like to know if any other captalk member had a good experience with any particular brand/type (hide-away/deck/lightbar etc). I have asked all my LEO buddies but they all use top of the line state-of-the-art equipment, i.e expensive and unnecessary.

Let's stop this nonsense and get back to the original topic:

I have a code 3 halogen rotator that I used to use on a regular basis at my work.  Years later and it still works like a charm!  Never had to replace the bulb (although I had to replace the dome when I dropped it once).  Magnetic mount and plugs into the cigarette lighter.  Pretty simple and can be placed on the roof when needed.  If you look around on-line, you can find them at very reasonable rates.

[Eclipse]

Bill,

Knock it off.  No one is disparaging anything, you're the one who decided to tell me "how it is" with your statements
regarding things being different in your state, not me.

I can't help it the facts disagree.

[IceNine]

*Disclaimer...please read the entire topic before flaming me...thank you. I am going to be moving to a state that does allow Emergency Management Agencies to have amber warning lights on vehicles. I am not and will not debate the legality of doing so. I would like to know if any other captalk member had a good experience with any particular brand/type (hide-away/deck/lightbar etc). I have asked all my LEO buddies but they all use top of the line state-of-the-art equipment, i.e expensive and unnecessary.

Let's stop this nonsense and get back to the original topic:

I have a code 3 halogen rotator that I used to use on a regular basis at my work.  Years later and it still works like a charm!  Never had to replace the bulb (although I had to replace the dome when I dropped it once).  Magnetic mount and plugs into the cigarette lighter.  Pretty simple and can be placed on the roof when needed.  If you look around on-line, you can find them at very reasonable rates.

That's not "Cool" enough.  We've said use a mag mount a few times now.

[caphornbuckle]

*Disclaimer...please read the entire topic before flaming me...thank you. I am going to be moving to a state that does allow Emergency Management Agencies to have amber warning lights on vehicles. I am not and will not debate the legality of doing so. I would like to know if any other captalk member had a good experience with any particular brand/type (hide-away/deck/lightbar etc). I have asked all my LEO buddies but they all use top of the line state-of-the-art equipment, i.e expensive and unnecessary.

Let's stop this nonsense and get back to the original topic:

I have a code 3 halogen rotator that I used to use on a regular basis at my work.  Years later and it still works like a charm!  Never had to replace the bulb (although I had to replace the dome when I dropped it once).  Magnetic mount and plugs into the cigarette lighter.  Pretty simple and can be placed on the roof when needed.  If you look around on-line, you can find them at very reasonable rates.

That's not "Cool" enough.  We've said use a mag mount a few times now.

True enough...figured someone had to do something to stop the bickering and get back on topic.

[Pylon]

Thanks to the devolvement of the thread into bickering, actually, the topic is already done.