There isn't a clear list of mission aircrew (**individual equipment** - not stuff that is supplied by CAP like the camera kit for APs) like there is for UDF and GT
- What would you include in a mission bag/kit for aircrew members (non-pilots, such as MS, MO, AP, etc.)?
- What software/apps would you include as well?
- And what would you add to the list for pilots?
- Anything you'd include in a sub-section for people with specific duties or mission conditions? (for example, on the Ground Team Individual Equipment list there's a sub-section for GTLs. I also include a sub-section on my GT list for personnel operating in cold weather. It helps to outline this stuff in particular because it'd be silly to read through the cold-weather gear when it's over 100 degrees. And there are items that ALL members of an aircrew simply don't need to carry (adding weight, and complexity).
Example Aircrew Individual Equipment:(http://www.colgan.info/img/kit1.jpg)
Example items pictured: - Mission bag
- Signal mirror (https://www.amazon.com/UST-StarFlash-Floating-Signal-Mirror/dp/B008BWO7OO/) with pouch
- Aircrew tasks book (https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-aircrew-and-flight-line-task-study-guide)
- Motion sickness pills
- Aircrew logbook (https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-logbook-scanners-and-observers-study-guide)
- CAP logbook case (https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-black-log-book-holder)
- Kneeboard
- Pen with embedded red light (so writing is easily seen, but doesn't interfere with night vision)
- Battery-powered light stick (NITE IZE)
- Mini flashlight on outside of bag for easily finding contents (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BP5176/) (light stick and flashlight attached with steel cable ring)
- Steel cable rings/ties for easy attachment of items (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BFVL4SQ/)
- David Clark Company (https://www.davidclarkcompany.com/) headset
- Rite-in-the-Rain notepad (https://www.riteintherain.com/3x5-top-spiral-notebook)
- Rite-in-the-Rain ICS log (http://www.nationalfirefighter.com/store/p/3918-Rite-in-the-Rain-ICS-214.aspx)
- Water bottle (Nalgene)
- Nametape on 3M Reflective tape (https://store.1800nametape.com/reflectivetapes.aspx) (attached with Velcro)
Some items not pictured: - Rite-in-the-Rain or Space Pen (both use the same cartridges) - (Fisher Backpacker Space Pen, Orange) (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01798A6FY/)
- Rite-in-the-Rain All-Weather Mechanical Pencil, Yellow Barrel, 1.1mm Black Lead (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MX5F51O/)
- Rite in the Rain All-Weather Durable Clicker Pen - Black Ink (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013HBL318/)
- Other writing items
- Tablet (Android)
- Maps
- Radio scanner
- Nite Ize S-Biner MicroLock, Locking Key Holder (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FQV9TXY/)
- Nite Ize S-Biner Carabiner, Assorted, Stainless (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D3OGPYO)
- Flight gloves (green for AF-style FDU; black for CAP FDU) (both NOMEX)
- Plastic ZipLoc bags for keeping items organized, dry, and clean
- Operational Mission Inflight Guide (PDF) (https://nesa.cap.gov/media/cms/Inflight_Guide_5E6B3452FACBF.pdf)
- Mission Aircrew Reference Text - Volume I - Mission Scanner (PDF) (https://nesa.cap.gov/media/cms/CAP_Scanner_Ref_Text_Rev_Dec_2017_7_C20FA7C6F76BF.pdf)
- Mission Aircrew Reference Text - Volume II - Mission Observer and SAR/DR Mission Pilot (PDF) (https://nesa.cap.gov/media/cms/CAP_MO__MP_Ref_Text_Rev_Dec_2017_18_8C745BD9DD582.pdf)
- EXTRA copy of CAP ID card
- etc.
When I take my air stuff while cadets are doing o-flights, I also stick some air sickness bags (https://www.amazon.com/MonMed-Emesis-Sickness-Motion-Disposable/dp/B07GPPNJYH/) in the kit. The cadets have used them a few times over the years.
The nametags I use on my bags, safety vests, etc. all light up brilliantly when hit with a little bit of light:
(http://www.colgan.info/img/kit2.jpg)
Source for Reflective Nametapes for Gear Bags, Safety Vests, etc.:- 1800Nametape.com (REFLECTIVE TAPES OPTIONS) (https://store.1800nametape.com/reflectivetapes.aspx)
The reflective nametapes work GREAT on your safety vests:
(http://www.colgan.info/img/vest.jpg)
Tracking Battery NeedsWhen preparing, repacking, or inspecting ALL my mission kits (individual and team/squadron), I use my own Battery Needs Worksheet to make sure I always have enough batteries, and the right type. Anyone is welcome to use my worksheet:
- Battery Needs Worksheet (PDF) (http://www.colgan.info/img/BatteryNeedsWorksheet.pdf)
Other Suggestions and Discussion Welcome!
I wear a military survival vest containing:
1) Military FRS/MS2000M LED strobe
distress beacon.
2) Portable Airband radio.
3) Personal first aid kit,ie
bandage dressing, tourniquet,
and Quickclot bandage.
4) Pilot nomex gloves and over the
head nomex facemask/hood.
5) Military style signal mirror.
6) 24 hours emergency rations.
In my flight bag I have:
1) Headset
2) VFR kneeboard with 5x7 legal
pad.
3) Red/white light headlight.
4) Phone charging pack with cord.
5) Flight plotter.
6) CAP Scanner/Observer Logbook.
7) Sectionals for AO.
8) 2 ea. 1 quart water bottles.
9) Extra pens and pencils.
I always refill the water bottels after every sortie.
I use a small 5.11 bag, not sure of the model offhand. Inside it has:
David Clark headset
Kneeboard
Plotter
Space pens, grease pencils
Sectional with CAP grids in map case
Aircrew logbook
Small flashlight with red led
Android tablet with Avare and Locus Maps (offline maps preloaded)
Anker battery pack and cables for tablet and phone
1 quart Nalgene
Nauzene chewable tablets
Air sickness bags (paper lunch bag, quart ziploc inside with a small pack of wet wipes. Always have them, never use them, but the one time I forget them is when I will need them)
First aid kit
Nomex gloves
Signal mirror
Compass
Waterproof matches in container
Light sticks (1 chemlight, 1 nite ize)
I assume most kits will vary depending on geographical location. In MIWG you are rarely more than a few miles from a road unless you are up north, so survival gear can be minimal. If I was flying over mountains frequently or in areas where a crash could mean several days of surviving in the field before rescue, the survival kit would need to be more robust.
A note on barf bags - one quart Ziploc with two paper towels in it. For use, open and remove one towel. Leave the other one in the bag. This will absorb the liquid part and reduce the slosh problem. The second towel is for cleanup. When finished, put the second towel back in the bag, seal, and properly dispose when back at base. I carry at least one in my flight suit leg pocket.
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 22, 2020, 07:22:22 PMI assume most kits will vary depending on geographical location. In MIWG you are rarely more than a few miles from a road unless you are up north, so survival gear can be minimal.
Bingo. In my Wing in the hot south, I'm minimalist as a MP. Cool and comfortable polo uniform, headset, iPad. Very rare that a sortie goes over two hours here, so hydration and food isn't an issue. Engine trouble ... land on a road and plenty of help will be right there. A couple of these are nice tohave on hand. LOL
(https://www.sportys.com/media/catalog/product/1/3/13089_3.jpg)
As a MP who flies three of us in a C-172 more often than a C-182, W&B is always critical. If folks start showing up with 20 lb personal kits, their kit might get left behind at Mission Base. LOL
Quote from: etodd on July 23, 2020, 12:21:41 AMA couple of these are nice tohave on hand
Yeah
no.
120% don't even
consider with cadets onboard, and even if the flight is
all the same gender no one wants to see that, nor do they want your morning coffee all
over them if you hit an air bump.
Do what you will if you are by yourself, otherwise land if you can't hold it.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 23, 2020, 01:35:24 AMDo what you will if you are by yourself....
Yes, of course. Never in front of anyone. I do a lot of solo flying. LOL
Quote from: etodd on July 23, 2020, 01:06:30 AMAs a MP who flies three of us in a C-172 more often than a C-182, W&B is always critical. If folks start showing up with 20 lb personal kits, their kit might get left behind at Mission Base. LOL
I can't imagine carrying that much needlessly (I have back trouble). The uniform boots and reference books probably weigh the most, so all my books (except the pocket task guide) are electronic (PDF). I wish I could easily get them on paper for ground use, but it'd LITERALLY be a pain to lug then on the plane. My goal is that my kits be easily moved when I need something,without causing back strain. I think that's a good guideline.
Quote from: JC004 on July 23, 2020, 01:28:23 PMQuote from: etodd on July 23, 2020, 01:06:30 AMAs a MP who flies three of us in a C-172 more often than a C-182, W&B is always critical. If folks start showing up with 20 lb personal kits, their kit might get left behind at Mission Base. LOL
I can't imagine carrying that much needlessly (I have back trouble). The uniform boots and reference books probably weigh the most, so all my books (except the pocket task guide) are electronic (PDF). I wish I could easily get them on paper for ground use, but it'd LITERALLY be a pain to lug then on the plane. My goal is that my kits be easily moved when I need something,without causing back strain. I think that's a good guideline.
For those that do carry a bunch of gear, where do you keep it so that it's easily accessible in a 172 with three aboard? Empty spot next to the scanner?
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 23, 2020, 04:34:47 PMFor those that do carry a bunch of gear, where do you keep it so that it's easily accessible in a 172 with three aboard? Empty spot next to the scanner?
Please do not burden your Mission Scanner that way. Especially in a 172. They need room to turn around a bit in that tiny area if on a 3 hour flight. And if its an AP in the back, he already has photo gear to deal with.
I know, sure, some people who have been Cadet and then Senior ground team members for years, have that 72 hour pack drilled into their mindset. If you're moving to aircrew ... leave it at home. Take what you can comfortably have in your pockets or lap. You're in an airplane that is being carefully watched online as you fly. Three people with cell phones that can be tracked. You're not going to be stuck eating frogs and bugs for days. You'll be back at the air conditioned Mission Base in time for the pizza to arrive. :)
Those last two sentences might not necessarily be true out here in high dirt country. Accessibility can be much more difficult in mountain areas.
Our birds in Maine have a robust survival kit in each. Is that true across the board for other wings? And yes, I know the argument that survival gear is whatever you leave with when you leave the plane.
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Quote from: etodd on July 23, 2020, 11:11:01 PMQuote from: Capt Thompson on July 23, 2020, 04:34:47 PMFor those that do carry a bunch of gear, where do you keep it so that it's easily accessible in a 172 with three aboard? Empty spot next to the scanner?
Please do not burden your Mission Scanner that way. Especially in a 172. They need room to turn around a bit in that tiny area if on a 3 hour flight. And if its an AP in the back, he already has photo gear to deal with.
I know, sure, some people who have been Cadet and then Senior ground team members for years, have that 72 hour pack drilled into their mindset. If you're moving to aircrew ... leave it at home. Take what you can comfortably have in your pockets or lap. You're in an airplane that is being carefully watched online as you fly. Three people with cell phones that can be tracked. You're not going to be stuck eating frogs and bugs for days. You'll be back at the air conditioned Mission Base in time for the pizza to arrive. :)
I don't think the weight limit on a 172 would allow you to bring the 72 hour pack. How much can a 172 hold with the tanks filled to the tabs anyway? I would think even with 3 skinny aircrew members, a survival kit and AP kit there wouldn't be much weight capacity left.
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 24, 2020, 12:32:07 PMI would think even with 3 skinny aircrew members, a survival kit and AP kit there wouldn't be much weight capacity left.
Probably not.
If I fly with three people, I'm bringing a flight crew equipment only. This is not a plane to bring your luggage on board, especially on those hot and humid days.
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on July 24, 2020, 01:20:50 PMQuote from: Capt Thompson on July 24, 2020, 12:32:07 PMI would think even with 3 skinny aircrew members, a survival kit and AP kit there wouldn't be much weight capacity left.
Probably not.
If I fly with three people, I'm bringing a flight crew equipment only. This is not a plane to bring your luggage on board, especially on those hot and humid days.
I've lost 25 lbs since the start of COVID-19.
The MPs love it when I report the weight of me and my equipment as 205 instead of 230. Especially when the guy before us left the airplane at 32 per side not 21, as asked, and we have to fly for 1.1 to get below minimum landing weight.
A two bottles of water, a flashlight, signal mirror, 2 cliff bars, multitool, a compass, handheld GPS and my cell phone battery charger are in my flight bag. When it's cooler, a jacket, gloves and hat.
Sigh... I remember being 230, which didn't sit too badly on me, being six foot four in Freedom units. There's a reason I was tagged as "Spam" at test pilot school, because of how I fit in the cockpit (you should see me in an AH-1 forward seat, ouch).
I love your short sweet list, NIN. Its actually pretty close to the official pack list for the F-22. I had a work package around 2003 to verify that the Raptor cockpit could actually fit all the junk on the list (it did, with creativity) but we designed extra stowage because the pilots were looking for more space to fit flight meals extra piddle packs etc. On long bag drags to Kadena they would stuff junk under the armrests, behind the throttles, etc. It makes Cessna cockpits look like the flight deck of a C-5.
Cheers
Spam
Quote from: Spam on July 25, 2020, 09:08:37 AMSigh... I remember being 230, which didn't sit too badly on me, being six foot four in Freedom units. There's a reason I was tagged as "Spam" at test pilot school, because of how I fit in the cockpit (you should see me in an AH-1 forward seat, ouch).
I'm actual 182 right now, so with uniform, flight gear and AP camera gear, I'm clocking about 205 in the weight & balance. That 25 lbs I lost is worth about 8/10 of an hour of gas in a 182.
I'm just about 6 Freedom units tall, I fit great in the front seat of a Cobra. And yes, I have flight gear for an MTF. Let's go.
QuoteI love your short sweet list, NIN. Its actually pretty close to the official pack list for the F-22. I had a work package around 2003 to verify that the Raptor cockpit could actually fit all the junk on the list (it did, with creativity) but we designed extra stowage because the pilots were looking for more space to fit flight meals extra piddle packs etc. On long bag drags to Kadena they would stuff junk under the armrests, behind the throttles, etc. It makes Cessna cockpits look like the flight deck of a C-5.
There's no need in a 182 on a 3hr AP sortie for much more. Nor is there much more room. The missions we've been doing are reduced crew (just pilot and AP) so even better for weight and balance and space, but no need to fill the volume unnecessarily. It's not like we have a crew van: I have to schlep anything I bring down the ramp myself.