Velcro shoulder pocket blouse

[800bestofcap]

This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you.   You have two choices:


1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)

2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.


If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into.    Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience. 

</soapbox>

Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.

[LGM30GMCC]

So you took 2 minutes to take out a map/compass. Annoying perhaps, but unlikely to be a game changer unless you are doing it 15-30 times. Though I also have to ask where the heck they had it buried? They must have been from the infomercial universe.

I just tested myself. I got up from my computer, walked across the room, picked my pack up out of my closet, put it on, took it off, laid it down, got out my map, dug around and tried to remember where I put the compass (I'm reconfiguring my pack and I'm tired) took it out, and put stuff away and came back to my computer. All at a leisurely stroll. It took me 1.5 minutes to do that. (I used a stopwatch)

Also a note 'They do it at Hawk' does not win you points on this board. IF your Wing/CC is in fact authorizing this stuff (I highly doubt it) I have no doubt a Region/CC would be very interested to see that and that the conversation would not go swimingly for that wing/CC. You probably didn't see the ruckus that a picture from an encampment garnered when it had a bunch of uniform violations and unathorized crap.

[JoeTomasone]

Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.

Sounds like he needs a talking to by your Wing Commander - or that your Region needs to get involved.   No one at Wing HQ can authorize that which regulations prohibit.   As a Wing level director, I can assure you of that.   (And boy, what I would change if I could!)

[800bestofcap]

Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.

Sounds like he needs a talking to by your Wing Commander - or that your Region needs to get involved.   No one at Wing HQ can authorize that which regulations prohibit.   As a Wing level director, I can assure you of that.   (And boy, what I would change if I could!)

I'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.

[vento]

This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you.   You have two choices:


1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)

2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.


If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into.    Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience. 

</soapbox>

Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.

My final advise and final entry into this thread: Stop digging a hole for yourself that you can't get out of it.

[800bestofcap]

So you took 2 minutes to take out a map/compass. Annoying perhaps, but unlikely to be a game changer unless you are doing it 15-30 times. Though I also have to ask where the heck they had it buried? They must have been from the infomercial universe.

I just tested myself. I got up from my computer, walked across the room, picked my pack up out of my closet, put it on, took it off, laid it down, got out my map, dug around and tried to remember where I put the compass (I'm reconfiguring my pack and I'm tired) took it out, and put stuff away and came back to my computer. All at a leisurely stroll. It took me 1.5 minutes to do that. (I used a stopwatch)

Also a note 'They do it at Hawk' does not win you points on this board. IF your Wing/CC is in fact authorizing this stuff (I highly doubt it) I have no doubt a Region/CC would be very interested to see that and that the conversation would not go swimingly for that wing/CC. You probably didn't see the ruckus that a picture from an encampment garnered when it had a bunch of uniform violations and unathorized crap.

I have seen that pic, it was terrible. But 1.5 is still time you could be using treating wounds of victims if it took you .05

[800bestofcap]

This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you.   You have two choices:


1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)

2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.


If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into.    Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience. 

</soapbox>

Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.

My final advise and final entry into this thread: Stop digging a hole for yourself that you can't get out of it.

Ill end at this too. I don't see how I've built a hole if I haven't broken any regulations because I was asking where too get these blouses, not telling the world I had them.

[JoeTomasone]

I'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.

I sincerely doubt it.   But hey, you've got to do what you think is right.





(That's my polite way of saying that I've given up discussing it because you apparently will soon explain that the Region Commander got the OK from the National Commander, and what would we have left to talk about?)

[Eclipse]

Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.

A wing ES officer does not have the authority to change the uniform.  That can only be done, within a pretty narrow lane, via a NHQ approved supplement.

I'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.

Cadet.  This is the point where you should just stop, accept you made a bad choice, and move on.

The Region CC doesn't "know about it", and no tactical excuse changes the simple fact that it isn't allowed.   You can continue to argue in a circle if you want, but you're
just making yourself look immature.   

Based on past experience in similar situations, odds are someone has already emailed your unit cc and this will be discussed at your next unit meeting.

[800bestofcap]

I'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.

Cadet.  This is the point where you should just stop, accept you made a bad choice, and move on.

The Region CC doesn't "know about it", and no tactical excuse changes the simple fact that it isn't allowed.   You can continue to argue in a circle if you want, but you're
just making yourself look immature.   

Based on past experience in similar situations, odds are someone has already emailed your unit cc and this will be discussed at your next unit meeting.

Did I not just say I was done sir? Theonly reason I reply is to get rid of the email alert.

[LGM30GMCC]

Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it'  The results might just not be fully expected.  :angel:

[800bestofcap]

Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it'  The results might just not be fully expected.  :angel:

Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Where's the popcorn? Also 800,  in what capacity have you treated victims on an ES mission?

[Duke Dillio]

So to answer your original question (whether unauthorized or not), I assume this is what you are talking about:

http://bdu.com/mens-tru-spec-nylon-cotton-ripstop-tru-coats/woodland

In reference to your attitude though, I think that you have a little bit of maturing to do.  Take this advice from a 20+ year ground team member/leader.  Tie your compass around your neck and put your map in the cargo pocket of your BDU pants.  No more 2 minutes trying to find your stuff.  In the grand scheme of things, more often then not you will find that most people who are involved in a plane crash in a small aircraft will be dead by the time you arrive.  With the prevalence of cell phones now, those who do survive will have called for help and thus local law enforcement and other rescuers will be on-site before you are even activated.  While time is critical, we will always find ourselves behind the eight ball.

[Duke Dillio]

Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it'  The results might just not be fully expected.  :angel:

Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.

It is interesting to note that Lt. Col. Wiggs is not the ES officer of NC wing.  That would be Maj. Chris Bailey.  I am sure that Col. Crawford and Col. Ragland would be interested to hear about this whole situation.  Of course, knowing the people on this board as I do I am pretty certain that their phones have already rung at least once...

[lordmonar]

Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it'  The results might just not be fully expected.  :angel:

Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.

Dude.......Thanks for giving us all the names of your wing/region leaders who supposedly can't read regulations.
We appreciate it.

Now.....guess what....this is what is going to happen.  This thread will be delivered to the named officers with a note that says something like  "WTF guys......are you really telling people that this is okay?"

Then the fecal matter will start to fly.

It seems that you are new to CAPTALK and maybe fairly new to CAP as well........The answer you were really looking for was given in the first reply.  It is not authorised.  No one below NHQ level has the authority to modify 39-1 to allow you to wear them.

So......go ahead and do what you want.....as USAFAUX said.....where's the popcorn?  I want to watch.

[CAPDan]

For my GT gear I have a compass pouch like this
http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0C0V/product-id/195031.html
that fits nicely on a web belt or as in my case a molle backpack. Most compasses also fit nicely in a BDU trouser pockets, all 3 options are nicely within a hands reach without having to go digging through my gear.

As for the map, I currently have a map case like this
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7184&tabid=1&catid=3432
that nicely rolls up and fits in a outside pocket of my backpack, also I have found that a large ziplock does well and will fit in the BDU pocket.

It's all about getting your gear squared away properly and putting everything in a place where it is easily accessible and in a consistent location.

[800bestofcap]

For my GT gear I have a compass pouch like this
http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0C0V/product-id/195031.html
that fits nicely on a web belt or as in my case a molle backpack. Most compasses also fit nicely in a BDU trouser pockets, all 3 options are nicely within a hands reach without having to go digging through my gear.

As for the map, I currently have a map case like this
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7184&tabid=1&catid=3432
that nicely rolls up and fits in a outside pocket of my backpack, also I have found that a large ziplock does well and will fit in the BDU pocket.

It's all about getting your gear squared away properly and putting everything in a place where it is easily accessible and in a consistent location.

Thank you! My problem with the maps and compasses with my gear is I can never fit a map in my tactical vest and have to put it in an Alice clipped bag in the back. That wastes quite a while.

[Stonewall]

I made a set of these several years ago as a "prototype" for use in the field, not specifically for the Air Force or in CAP, but it was fun making them.

"You gotta know the rules before you break them." -Col Charlie "Chargin" Beckwith

[Luis R. Ramos]

All-

I certainly would like to read the results when the named Wing personnel get involved... Although I do seem to have predicted the results in my mind...



Flyer