Search is being funky. Final word on the 1st Sgt Diamond

[Майор Хаткевич]

Had this come up at the meeting with the cadets last night. I know CAPR 52-16 has been rewritten a dozen or so times it seems over the last few years, but a search within for "diamond" yielded zero results, and nothing around the words "sergeant" or "first" got to anything either.

I'm of the opinion that the diamond is gone officially, but I can't seem to find anything definitive to prove that within CAPM 39-1 or CAPR 52-16 and of course Vanguard still sells them.

Anyone have anything I can substantiate it with.

[Garibaldi]

I'd always thought that the First Sergeant was a title more than a rank, like at encampment or other large gathering of cadets. As far as it being an "official" thing, I guess that depends on what side of the fence you're on.

Our unit is large enough that we actually have a first sergeant position. I forget what his actual grade is, but I haven't seen him wear a diamond. That doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't. I just haven't been up close enough to see it.

Keep in mind that this is my local unit, and yours might differ. I'll do some checking and get back to you.

[Abby.L]

No. No. No. Don't even open this can of worms.

I know I'm gonna get flak for this but... As far as I'm concerned, wear it. As far as the reg Nutzis are concerned, you're committing sin if you wear it. Having been a Shirt back in the day, those were some of the best in my CAP career. Sure, I didn't have to wear the diamond, but it helps give you an identity.

[Eclipse]

The final word.

Not authorized by the regs, produced by Vanguard, worn commonly.

That's all you have go work with right now.

[Майор Хаткевич]

How so? I was a C/1st Sgt at an encampment as well as at my unit. I wore the diamond, but that was before NHQ actually started working out requirements for the position as well as all the allowed/not allowed discussions.

The typical discussion goes like this:

Why do you need the diamond?
So my cadets know I'm the first sergeant.
They should know that given the fact that you are, and act like one.
Well how would new people in the squadron know?
How does a little speck on your chevron signify anything to a new member?
I don't know.

I simply want to know the answer based on something from NHQ or the regs (preferably the regs).

I'm not against the diamond, but if it's not on the books, then it's simply not allowed.

[Garibaldi]

I looked. No diamond. First Sergeant is a position and not a grade insignia. It used to be, but no longer. Cadets should know who the heck is in their chain of command and who does what. Some people insist on using the diamond to differentiate between the first shirt and the rest of the NCOs, but I'd have to say they are wrong.'

Diamond is not authorized by 39-1....well, it isn't IN there at any rate. It isn't even in the Cadet Great Start Guide or whatever they're calling it these days.

[AngelWings]

Any command cheif stars authorizied? 

[Garibaldi]

Any command cheif stars authorizied? 

Might as well ask for wreaths!

[SarDragon]

Any command cheif stars authorizied? 

No, but even if they were, you can't wear it if you can't spell it.

[AngelWings]

Any command cheif stars authorizied? 

No, but even if they were, you can't wear it if you can't spell it.

It's a portmanteau of chef and cheif! As in the soup chef, because Command Chief pins= soup sandwich!

Any command cheif stars authorizied? 

Might as well ask for wreaths!

CMSCAP?

[SarDragon]

Give it up.

Fail all around. 

[coudano]

The staff position is now talked about in Cadet Staff Handbook CAPP 52-15.
But as others noted, that does not explicitly authorize the bling/diamond.

[ßτε]

In case anyone is interested in what the CAP Knowledgebase says:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/874/kw/first%20sergeant

[arajca]

Since the First Sergeant diamond is a position device, and position devices are addressed in CAPM 39-1 (see Commander's Badge), and the diamond is not in the manual, the diamond is not authorized.

The Knowledge Base does not trump the regs. Pamphlets do not trump regs. In the past, the absense of the First Sergeant diamond from CAPM 39-1 was attributed to an oversight, however, nothing has been done since to 'correct' this oversight, despite multiple ICLs and NB motions since the last version of CAPM 39-1 was published. CAPR 52-16 did list the diamond, but it has been removed from that publication in the last rewrite.

[Struts]

According to The Knowledgebase, it is authorized for a cadet who occupies the position of cadet first sergeant. In the second volume of learn to lead on page 13, if you take that picture and crop it down to just the insignia, then you can faintly see a device in the middle of the chevrons.

[capmedic]

Seems like folks would have better things to day than to worry about if a cadet is wearing a diamond on their insignia.  In the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't matter one little bit.  Ease up a bit.    Some of you guys need to realize that we aren't in the military.

[Eclipse]

According to The Knowledgebase, it is authorized for a cadet who occupies the position of cadet first sergeant. In the second volume of learn to lead on page 13, if you take that picture and crop it down to just the insignia, then you can faintly see a device in the middle of the chevrons.

Check the date(s) on the KB article.
There are plenty of national publications which show uniform issues, either because things have changed since their publication, or
because the people authoring the publication made assumptions and didn't check.  That doesn't mean it's correct.

[Eclipse]

Seems like folks would have better things to day than to worry about if a cadet is wearing a diamond on their insignia.  In the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't matter one little bit.  Ease up a bit.   

In the grand scheme, ignoring these "little things" is the reason the program is in the state it is in, and commanders feel they are free to take local liberties with the regulations.

A big part of our program is instilling attention to detail in our members.  One part of that attention to detail is being able to negotiate regulations that
govern your conduct and appearance.

Some of you guys need to realize that we aren't in the military.

Relevance? 

[Struts]

Eclipse you were correct on the dates. The knowledgebase article was dated from 2003 and the newest editions of 39-1 and 52-16 are from 2005 and 2006 respectively.

[jeders]

Actually, the KB is dated Feb 2012, and the most recent 52-16 is Feb 2011.