thoughts on aircrew weight limitations

[Flying Pig]

Could someone who is 5'4" even fly a 206?  Im 6' and I have the seat all the way up and I still feel like Im head on with the attitude indicator.

[Frenchie]

I have yet to see a 172 be able to take more than three adults in mission mode no matter
what they weigh, the 182's were a gift from the Lord.

The 172p we used to have had a full fuel useful load of 615 lbs even with the required stuff in the back.  If you had the fuel at the tabs, you get 717lbs of useful load left.

We have a few women in our squadron that are 130 lbs or less and a few men that are 175 lbs or less.  With two each of these men and women you could take 4 even with full fuel in theory.  In practice we never did it as far as I know, although we did do a few O-flights with a pilot and 3 cadets.

[jayleswo]

Try recruiting some cadets (over 18) as Scanners and Observers - even mission pilots. They are often below your weight limits.

[DrJbdm]

I'm not ever flying with a cadet who's the Mission Pilot. that should never happen, the MP should always have to be a CAP Officer.

[jimmydeanno]

I'm not ever flying with a cadet who's the Mission Pilot. that should never happen, the MP should always have to be a CAP Officer.

I'm sorry you feel that way, perhaps you should get over yourself and recognize that the cadets skills meet the criteria to be a mission pilot.  It's just a difference of membership type, not skill.  < and no, I am not retracting that statement, ever.

[Flying Pig]

I don't think it has to do anything with getting over ones self.  I dont know that I would be particularly excited about it either on the face of it.  I would want to know more background on the pilot, how long have they been flying, etc. A cadet mission pilot is probably not going to have  a lot of experience.  Then again, you could have a 18-19-20 year old professional CFI-I with 1000 hours already under his belt.  Im probably a little easier with it because I am a pilot and could intervene if necessary, vs. a non-pilot observer or scanner who is putting their trust in a, lets call it what it is a "cadet".
Although I wont say never, I think any cadet MP should expect a lot of scrutiny before we (Seniors) pile in with him or her to go off on a mission.  It should probably be something that is included in a Cadet Mission Pilot check out.  Lets call it, "WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT FROM THE OLD FARTS AS CADET MISSION PILOT"  Is it fair considering the cadet CFI-I, MP met all the same quals as a 60 year old Private Pilot/Mission Pilot?  Yes and no.  Its fair because they are still young and don't bring with them some of the common sense/life experience that an older member will have.  And I might have reservations jumping in with an 18 year old PIC with a Private and 70 hours of flight time. No, because the cadet really may be more qualified AND experienced than the other pilots.   If a cadet is in the position of really getting some serious flight time on missions, and this is becoming an issue, maybe the cadet should evaluate the benefit of staying a cadet vs a Senior FO.  Its just how life is in any arena. A cadet mission pilot walking in on a mission is always going to grab peoples attention, good or bad.

[davidsinn]

Doesn't PRWG have a full cadet Aircrew? I seem to recall reading about it in the Volunteer last year.

[davidsinn]

I'm not ever flying with a cadet who's the Mission Pilot. that should never happen, the MP should always have to be a CAP Officer.

There is a Cadet(Spaatz) in my wing that's training to be an MP and I would rather fly with her than some of our older MPs. She has her act together and does not have the huge head I've noticed a few of our Lt. Col MPs have.

[jimmydeanno]

I don't think it has to do anything with getting over ones self.

Of course it does.  Making the statement that you (not you) wouldn't EVER fly with a cadet mission pilot is absurd.  Would you not fly on a commercial airliner because the pilot happened to be under 25 or take flying lessons from a 20 year old CFI?  Then add to it that it should be required for all MPs to be officers. 

So you have a 20 year old CFI, who flies everyday for a living and teaches people how to fly who happens to be a cadet member and you won't fly with them.

However, you have a 20 year old CFI, who flies everyday for a living and teaches people how to fly who happens to be a TFO and you will?

Same person, different title on their membership card.  It has everything to do with getting over one's self and looking at the qualifications and abilities of the individual who has proven that they are qualified to perform the task.

If you or anyone else doesn't feel comfortable flying with a qualified "cadet in charge" it's probably better that you don't. I guess it is good to know that the 1% of people who makes these types of comments aren't the ones working with cadets or the ones actually making decisions.

Keep up all the great work all you cadet MPs out there and keep on racking up those finds!

[Flying Pig]

Can cadets qualify for the CD program?  Is there any thing a Cadet mission pilot is prohibited from doing?  Although a cadet may be fully qualified, where I could see it being an issue would be working with outside agencies even if the cadet is an older 19-20 yr old cadet.
For example if an adult cadet MP shows up for a photo recon mission with the local Sheriff's Dept, and someone sees the title "Cadet" I could almost guarantee the mission would come to a screeching halt until some calls were made.  I think having the term "CADET" may send up some flags for agencies not really familiar with CAP and our different programs and terminology.  In many agencies outside of the military, the term "cadet" is translated to mean "kid".  I would recommend any cadet MP flying with a non CAP agency to just leave the term "cadet" out of, and off of,  anything unless it is really necessary.  But I think your right if a cadet is truly qualified, it really comes down to a title on a membership card.

I would just encourage anyone with a cadet Mission Pilot coming up in the ranks, sit down with them and explain to them that they are truly a RARE BREED and to expect to feel like a circus freak with all of the whispering and finger pointing.  If you are a cadet MP already, make sure all of your ducks are in a row ALL OF THE TIME and expect people to check and triple check your preflight planning and your flying. Take it as a source of pride when they don't find anything wrong.  But I think most people will bend over backwards to help you.  You are to be congratulated and don't let your skill stop with CAP.

[MIKE]

Topic.

[Flying Pig]

OK.....topic.  Should large people be allowed to fly?