Flight training for non-citizen cadets in US

[RiverAux]

ABC news had a story tonight on the apparent failure of most flight schools in the US to properly check out non-citizens going through flight training. 

As you know, CAP can provide primary flight training to cadets.  I wonder to what extent the laws applying to flight schools and non-citizens would apply to CAP.  If such laws do apply to CAP, I wonder whether we are following them for what I can only assume are a very small number of non-citzen CAP cadets getting primary flight training through CAP. 

Reminder, CAP cadet membership is open to non-citzen, CAPR 39-2

e. Citizenship. Be a citizen of the United States of America or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence to the United States of America and its territories and possessions or any lawfully admitted non-citizen residing in the United States specifically approved by the National Commander's designee (NHQ CAP/LMM).

Any thoughts?

[Tim Medeiros]

I was at an activity that was co-located with an NFA this past summer, there was a cadet that had to leave NFA part-way due to their citizenship status (at least thats what I recall was the reason)

[DNall]

I was at an activity that was co-located with an NFA this past summer, there was a cadet that had to leave NFA part-way due to their citizenship status (at least thats what I recall was the reason)

That's weird. The citizenship status to join CAP is the same as to join the mil, and it's that way by design.

[Maj Ballard]

I had a cadet whose CAP flight training came to a screeching halt once everyone realized he was Canadian. He since has gotten his US citizenship and has resumed his plans.

[RiverAux]

From what I can tell, giving flight training to non-citizens isn't prohibited by either CAP or federal regulations.  There is just a bunch of paperwork checks and other hoops to jump through to do it. 

[Mustang]

ABC news had a story tonight on the apparent failure of most flight schools in the US to properly check out non-citizens going through flight training. 

As you know, CAP can provide primary flight training to cadets.  I wonder to what extent the laws applying to flight schools and non-citizens would apply to CAP.  If such laws do apply to CAP, I wonder whether we are following them for what I can only assume are a very small number of non-citzen CAP cadets getting primary flight training through CAP. 

The rules in question apply to ALL flight instruction given by any CFI, even checkrides. CAP has no exemption.  And I know for a fact that many CAP instructors and check pilots are not collecting the required records.  Woe unto them should the TSA pay them a visit, they may likely kiss their CFI tickets goodbye.

[Frenchie]

ABC news had a story tonight on the apparent failure of most flight schools in the US to properly check out non-citizens going through flight training. 

As you know, CAP can provide primary flight training to cadets.  I wonder to what extent the laws applying to flight schools and non-citizens would apply to CAP.  If such laws do apply to CAP, I wonder whether we are following them for what I can only assume are a very small number of non-citzen CAP cadets getting primary flight training through CAP. 

The rules in question apply to ALL flight instruction given by any CFI, even checkrides. CAP has no exemption.  And I know for a fact that many CAP instructors and check pilots are not collecting the required records.  Woe unto them should the TSA pay them a visit, they may likely kiss their CFI tickets goodbye.

As well they should.  You never know how many 15 yr old Jihadis there are out there and it would be just like them to exploit the iron clad defenses of the US and sneak them in through CAP to get them trained.  TSA and the FAA should act quickly to close this serious breach of national security and harshly punish all those involved.

[RiverAux]

Mustang you know for a fact that CAP is training non-citizen CAP cadets in our airplanes and not following those rules?

[Frenchie]

Mustang you know for a fact that CAP is training non-citizen CAP cadets in our airplanes and not following those rules?

Seriously what I think Mustang is alluding to is that all CFIs are supposed to collect proof of citizenship for all of their students.  It really doesn't matter if they are actually training non-citizens or not if they can't prove they aren't, at least as far as TSA is concerned.

[flyguy06]

ABC news had a story tonight on the apparent failure of most flight schools in the US to properly check out non-citizens going through flight training. 

As you know, CAP can provide primary flight training to cadets.  I wonder to what extent the laws applying to flight schools and non-citizens would apply to CAP.  If such laws do apply to CAP, I wonder whether we are following them for what I can only assume are a very small number of non-citzen CAP cadets getting primary flight training through CAP. 

Reminder, CAP cadet membership is open to non-citzen, CAPR 39-2

e. Citizenship. Be a citizen of the United States of America or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence to the United States of America and its territories and possessions or any lawfully admitted non-citizen residing in the United States specifically approved by the National Commander's designee (NHQ CAP/LMM).

Any thoughts?

Its different with flight schools vs CAP. Flight Schools fall under FAR part 61 or part 141. They have certain things they have to do. CAP is not a Flight school in that sense and so we do not fall under part 61 or 141. We fall under part 91.

[RiverAux]

Depends on exactly how the law is worded.  If it specfically applies to flight schools and not other instructors, you would be right.  I just don't know the details of the actual law.   

[a2capt]

Its different with flight schools vs CAP. Flight Schools fall under FAR part 61 or part 141. They have certain things they have to do. CAP is not a Flight school in that sense and so we do not fall under part 61 or 141. We fall under part 91.

..and under Part 91- the onus is on the CFI as there is no other entity between them and the student.

Even on the latter situations, it falls on the CFI anyway, but the way the registration system  is setup it allows for a Chief Instructor to be the clearing point.

Under Part 91 individual CFIs are their own chief instructor in the system. IE, each one registers individually.

So they are responsible for the documentation and eligibility determination. The alien applies to the TSA and submits, they pick who their provider is going to be. Where they get the aircraft does not matter.

If it's a Part 141 operation, they will be choosing the name of the operation, if it's a part 91- they will choose the name of the CFI. But it has nothing to do with the operator of the aircraft, but rather the 'operator' of the CFI