Commander's Commendation

[AirDX]

I got another CommComm yesterday, so I have two from the wing and one from the region.  What do I wear on the ribbon, two triangle devices signifying three awards, plus the bronze star denoting the level of one of them, OR one triangle device for the second award and the bronze star denoting both the level of the award and the third award?  I think its the former, but I'm not entirely sure.

[AlphaSigOU]

Wear the ribbon with the two bronze clasps; then add the bronze star to your left. (I now hafta deal with two Com Coms and one National Com Com.) You only get to wear one bronze or silver star commendation on the ribbon.

[Eclipse]

McChord agrees:

[Storm Chaser]

+1

In the event of multiple awards, the bronze or silver star is placed on the ribbon to the wearer's right of any clasps for multiple awards at any level. Only one bronze or silver star (one star of each type) will be worn.

[lordmonar]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

[Eclipse]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

Agreed, and to further compound things, scope is ignored on a regular basis for expediency, which means
you really have no idea what kind of impact a given commendable activity had anyway.

[arajca]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

You mean change it back to the way it was before HWSNBN?

[PHall]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

You mean change it back to the way it was before HWSNBN?

Ah yep!

[Private Investigator]

McChord agrees:

According to McChord you can have both the silver and bronze stars noting a National and Regional CommComms.

[AirDX]

Thanks!

[JC004]

Just wear a silver star attachment, then a bronze "Etc." attachment.  Simple approach.

[LATORRECA]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

Just like in the services. It doesn't matter what level it given, it's the same award.

[flyboy53]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

Just like in the services. It doesn't matter what level it given, it's the same award.

Especially since the approval level of a Region or National Commander warrants such a higher level of award, and also means that those higher levels of awards are strictly political.

[Private Investigator]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

Just like in the services. It doesn't matter what level it given, it's the same award.

Especially since the approval level of a Region or National Commander warrants such a higher level of award, and also means that those higher levels of awards are strictly political.

Not neccessarily. When the Achievement Award was created and the approval level was the Group Commander. The Group next to ours awarded fifty (50+) plus AAs the first week. So at what level does your politics start?    

[flyboy53]

We got to change the rules on this......it should not matter from what level you got the commendation.  If it just comendation level work....it should not matter if God or your just your squadron commander signed the F120....it is the same ribbon.

Just like in the services. It doesn't matter what level it given, it's the same award.

Especially since the approval level of a Region or National Commander warrants such a higher level of award, and also means that those higher levels of awards are strictly political.

Not neccessarily. When the Achievement Award was created and the approval level was the Group Commander. The Group next to ours awarded fifty (50+) plus AAs the first week. So at what level does your politics start?   

Same issue, different level of command. If an award is given at the level of command of a national commander or region commander, it must have been an act of meritorious service, achievement or what ever that had the scale or impact that caught the attention of the commander at that level, so why just give a commendation award?

At the core of the issue with this thread is the fact that we are all volunteers sans the NHQ staff and like volunteer fire fighters, EMTs and police officers (there are some) you develop recognition programs in order to encourage participation and foster morale. However, you end up with "carrot awards" like five different training ribbons and develop a new one every time someone decides we need a new one. You end up with mass awards of ribbons because of politics and commanders just trying to keep the morale at a functional level.

In the grand scheme of things, I'm just another member with an opinion that doesn't really count, but once you start adding devices to reflect a level of approval authority, you start a complex mess that ultimately waters down the meaning of the award. We have awards like Exceptional Service and Meritorious Service for such commanders not stars on ribbons.

On the Air Force side, things like achievement awards and commendation awards are meant for junior officers and airmen -- or at least nobody above the grade of colonel. Although I have seen the same political process, there are those rare incidents where a junior airman or officer does something that warrants something like a Meritorious Service Medal and the citations in those incidents are amazing. Why can't we do the same.

When I joined the Air Force, the common award for meritorious service or achievement for non-aircrews was a Commendation Medal. Award was rare. Then the Meritorious Service Medal was created. I actually worked for the major who got the first one in the Air Force. He was the PAO who escorted the POWs back from Vietnam. Then someone decided that medals would mean promotion points in WAPS testing or necessary parts of APRs and OERs. Long about 1979-80 the two medals became so common that there was a scandal/investigation where too many MSMs were being given to airmen in commands like SAC and the U.S. Air Force Security Service/Electronic Security Command.

Over the years I, too, have seen them awarded politically to people that I never considered merited it, but that sounds too much like sour grapes and that's not my intent -- especially when I met one of the SAC senior airmen who earned an MSM. What he did to earn the medal -- entering a launch silo to fix an out of control Hydrazine leak on a nuclear armed Titan missile -- defines the meaning of meritorious service and is a small token for the sacrifice of what he did.

That is why the CAP program needs a serious overhaul. Let's stop the carrot approach and instead of a national commander generating a junior-level award signified by a star for the level of the approval authority, give the person something really meaningful if the merit warrants it.

At the very least, its just a commendation award, take the star off. This tread started with an individual asking what to wear on his ribbon. I didn't commend him for his achievement -- which is very warranted -- I just don't think the device is necessary.

[Private Investigator]

flyboy53, I see your POV and I agree with you.

The awards program in CAP varies greatly by which Wing you are in and then who the Wing King/Queen is at the moment. Some are generous and others are not into the bling bling. 

[PHall]

Well, our current National Commander seems to be willing to take a fresh look at things and update where required.
Maybe it's time for a top to bottom review of the CAP Awards and Decorations program.

[MSG Mac]

flyboy53, I see your POV and I agree with you.

The awards program in CAP varies greatly by which Wing you are in and then who the Wing King/Queen is at the moment. Some are generous and others are not into the bling bling. 

As a former Wing DP, I saw the problem as  squadrons not submitting awards for their members. In a Wing with 30 units, it was a struggle to get more than 5 or 6 nominations for the "of the Year" awards. You can't complain about the dearth of awards, when you're not putting people in for them.

[Alaric]

Well, our current National Commander seems to be willing to take a fresh look at things and update where required.
Maybe it's time for a top to bottom review of the CAP Awards and Decorations program.

Because that's where he should be spending his time, not worrying about silly things like making sure we remain operationally relevant; making sure the task guides get updated (as they are all 8+ years old); enhancing our relationship with the Air Force and other relevant government agencies.  Nope definitely a top to bottom review of CAP Awards and Decorations that's a top priority

[Eclipse]

Well, our current National Commander seems to be willing to take a fresh look at things and update where required.
Maybe it's time for a top to bottom review of the CAP Awards and Decorations program.

Because that's where he should be spending his time, not worrying about silly things like making sure we remain operationally relevant; making sure the task guides get updated (as they are all 8+ years old); enhancing our relationship with the Air Force and other relevant government agencies.  Nope definitely a top to bottom review of CAP Awards and Decorations that's a top priority

That's why there are supposed to be committees assigned by NHQ, and distributed throughout organization to do the heavy lifting
of these decisions and discussions.  With 60,000^® members, there should be no detail which is too small to address.

Disclaimer: "60,000 members" is a registered trademark of Civil Air Patrol and may or may not reflect the
actual membership, readiness, or troop strength of the organization as a whole.