Corruption Thesis

[Major Lord]

Now see, that's exactly the kind of attitude that I'm talking about. "Nobody wants to discuss the topic." Really? We have several pages discussing the topic.

No, until this page we have several pages denying there's a problem and attacking those believe there is one.

Hint on how to read this - without passion and with a certain level of defeatism.

If you don't think the description CyBorg gave could (has?) happened, then you have a very different view of the structure here than I've experienced.  In general, how dare anyone question their superiors, how dare anyone make a suggestion. It's all been asked before, you don't know who you're offending, do pipe down before you get in trouble.

Tell me it won't happen.

I came to CapTalk because I had some ideas I wanted to bounce around. A mere three weeks later, I hate this place and being here is completely demotivating. I'll probably stop coming here soon before It makes give up and quit CAP all together. If this is what CAP is about then I completely understand the warnings I got three tears ago about joining. I heard about this attitude before I joined and dismissed it. Then I run smack into it here.

The members on this page are not representative of CAP; If they were, CAP would be a continual fist-fight. This is where the most cynical among us come to die, so don't let us take the wind out of your sails. Come back again in a few years after you have burned out and you will be welcome back with open and cynical arms.....

Major Lord

[a2capt]

I came to CapTalk because I had some ideas I wanted to bounce around. A mere three weeks later, I hate this place and being here is completely demotivating. I'll probably stop coming here soon before It makes give up and quit CAP all together. If this is what CAP is about then I completely understand the warnings I got three tears ago about joining. I heard about this attitude before I joined and dismissed it. Then I run smack into it here.

Kinda funny, actually.
You came in swinging and thrashing from the get go. What did you expect to get back from that?

[Major Carrales]

I came to CapTalk because I had some ideas I wanted to bounce around. A mere three weeks later, I hate this place and being here is completely demotivating. I'll probably stop coming here soon before It makes give up and quit CAP all together. If this is what CAP is about then I completely understand the warnings I got three tears ago about joining. I heard about this attitude before I joined and dismissed it. Then I run smack into it here.

The Civil Air Patrol is, despite all the high profile machinations we tend to read about, a very "local" organization.  The Squadron level is where the "rubber meets the road."  Not only in terms of mission readiness, but in the culture.

In that regard, CAP is what we choose to make it.  If I want a unit where we are doing things reminiscent of the Gregory Peck film "12 O'clock High" where we are extremely structured and professional...then that is the Culture of that unit.  If you are in a unit more reminiscent of the Bill Murray Film "Stripes" then that is what the culture of that unit is.

I prefer a balance...adherence to traditions of military courtesy and custom, with an atmosphere of fellowship all the while adhering to the rules and effectively accomplishing the mission.  If you are not having "fun," by that I mean feeling fulfilled by your service to "COMMUNITY, STATE and NATION" then something is wrong.  Then there needs to be changes...we should not be fighting and undergoing drama at our SQUADRON MEETINGS.

CAPTALK, however, is not a squadron meeting.  It is a place to, for some, 1) vent, 2) rant, 3) temper ideas, 4) bicker, 5) network and a whole host of other personal reasons for coming her.

Some people aren't even members of CAP anymore, or at all (ever) and just want to criticize the organization based on some isolated experience with some unit or CAP Officer in the past.  To those people, and especially those riled up by the criticisms of those people, I will remind you of Teddy Roosevelt's "man the the arena..."

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

You and I, my friends...are the MEN in the ARENA.

[a2capt]

That's an excellent in a nutshell view, actually.

[SarDragon]

Some people aren't even members of CAP anymore, or at all (ever) and just want to criticize the organization based on some isolated experience with some unit or CAP Officer in the past.  To those people, and especially those riled up by the criticisms of those people, I will remind you of Teddy Roosevelt's "man the the arena..."

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

You and I, my friends...are the MEN in the ARENA.

Thank you!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The members on this page are not representative of CAP; If they were, CAP would be a continual fist-fight. This is where the most cynical among us come to die, so don't let us take the wind out of your sails. Come back again in a few years after you have burned out and you will be welcome back with open and cynical arms.....
Major Lord

Not entirely true, sir.

For one thing, I was a hardened cynic long before I ever put on a CAP uniform.

[BillB]

If you take note of the signatures, you'll find that many new posters are 2LT, 1LT or cadets. Hardly the cynical old men that's claimed.

[SarDragon]

Bill, being a 2Lt or a 1Lt doesn't necessarily imply youth. Most of the recent new members in my unit are 40+, just about the right age to be incipient cynics.

[Major Carrales]

Bill, being a 2Lt or a 1Lt doesn't necessarily imply youth. Most of the recent new members in my unit are 40+, just about the right age to be incipient cynics.

Yes, but I took "youth" in this case to be "young in the organization."   Newbies who haven't the three clasped RED SERVICE RIBBON or the like.

[SarDragon]

Bill, being a 2Lt or a 1Lt doesn't necessarily imply youth. Most of the recent new members in my unit are 40+, just about the right age to be incipient cynics.

Yes, but I took "youth" in this case to be "young in the organization."   Newbies who haven't the three clasped RED SERVICE RIBBON or the like.

I think you are approaching this logical fallacy: Correlation does not imply causation. Merely being in CAP does not necessarily lead to cynicism.

Just because CT is rife with cynics, that shouldn't tar all members with that brush. Cynics abound in real life, of all ages.

[AirAux]

To support my prior example:  Merriam-Webster Definition:

1 a: impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle: a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct.

Therefore, my example is spot on to corruption in CAP.  To allow cadet officer promotions without requiring the cadets to complete SDA requirements is not only corruption on the commanders part, but also on the part of all seniors and cadets involved and aware of the infraction.  Further this sets an example to all that the requirements are only guidelines to be loosely followed.  Ergo, the whole system becomes corrupt.  If the ego maniacs on the board would stop espousing to hear themselves espouse and provide answers to the original question it would benefit all.  This does appear to be difficult if not impossible for the handful that fortunately know everything about everything and must post as routinely as the toilet flushes.  Unfortunately most of what they post should also be flushed with some regularity.  I stopped coming here a couple of years ago.  I hoped to find changes when I returned, but, S.O.S. different day.  What a shame.  How many members do you all run off after a short period of your ego driven advice?? 

[Eclipse]

Sorry, I was in the head, what did I miss?

[Major Lord]

FYI, we have an 83 Y/O 1LT in our squadron who flew Mosquitoes for the RCAF in WWII. Some people are just naturally cynical, but it seems like CAP is an excellent environment to bring out latent tendencies.......oooooh, I did not mean it quite the way that sounds.........

Major Lord

[Private Investigator]

FYI, we have an 83 Y/O 1LT in our squadron who flew Mosquitoes for the RCAF in WWII.

How cool is that!

One thing is Squadrons should avoid Senior Centers as meeting places because that Squadron will drive the Group and/or Wing Commander insane.

[ol'fido]

Like they need help anyway.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

FYI, we have an 83 Y/O 1LT in our squadron who flew Mosquitoes for the RCAF in WWII.

Does he wear his flight cap slightly tilted to the right, salute palm-out and say "lef-tenant?"

[JeffDG]

FYI, we have an 83 Y/O 1LT in our squadron who flew Mosquitoes for the RCAF in WWII.

Does he wear his flight cap slightly tilted to the right, salute palm-out and say "lef-tenant?"

Um...I say lef-tenant.  Waiting for my railroad tracks so people don't look at me funny when I introduce myself...

[Major Lord]

FYI, we have an 83 Y/O 1LT in our squadron who flew Mosquitoes for the RCAF in WWII.

Does he wear his flight cap slightly tilted to the right, salute palm-out and say "lef-tenant?"

I have not seen him wear a uniform in years, but he is active in the RCAF Legion and they have provided scholarships for us to flight academies, by way of thanks for our providing Color Guards for their activities. He is a "paper LT" now, since his health is not optimum. He has been in America a long time, so no tremulous open hand saluting with a foot stomp  or "Leftenants" but he still says "hoose" and "aboot" and probably eats back-bacon and drinks Strohs, eh? I never heard him call anyone a "houser" either. In their event programs, they always list us as the "22nd Civil Air Patrol Squadron" which I admit has a nice SAS sounding ring to it! ( Personally, I prefer "His Majesty, King Obama's Royal Civil Air Patrol Squadron".

Major Lord

[bflynn]

Personally, I prefer "His Majesty, King Obama's Royal Civil Air Patrol Squadron".

I dunno, I have a rather strong reaction against that King part whether the name after it is Obama, Bush, Clinton or even Reagan. 

I think you were joking though? 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Um...I say lef-tenant.  Waiting for my railroad tracks so people don't look at me funny when I introduce myself...

Actually, I do too sometimes.  Too much CBC, BBC and ABC, and living so close to the border, not to mention repeated viewings of The Battle Of Britain.

What really throws my colleagues is when I address them in German:

Guter Nachmittag, Leutnant.
Wie geht es Ihnen, Oberstleutnant?
Zu befehl, Major!