Activities that qualify for Community Service Ribbon

[ascorbate]

CAP Knowledgebase contains a note regarding "Activities that qualify for community service credit" at:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1431&p_sid=Zs-R9jSj&p_lva=2027

Was wondering if 60 blood donations to the American Red Cross might qualify towards the 60 hours credit required for the Community Service Ribbon since each blood donation typically takes at least one hour to complete?

[Hawk200]

I wouldn't think so. However opinions vary, you'll see more shortly.

[lordmonar]

I would say yes.

[Al Sayre]

If you can get a letter from the Red Cross Volunteer Coordinator stating you put in 60 hours of community service, it doesn't matter much what you were doing, giving blood or sitting in a chair reading a magazine waiting for someone to walk in the door, it would qualify.  The key is the letter.

[Eclipse]

Was wondering if 60 blood donations to the American Red Cross might qualify towards the 60 hours credit required for the Community Service Ribbon since each blood donation typically takes at least one hour to complete?

No.

That's not a community service project, that's donating blood.  Good on'ye and enjoy the coffee mugs.

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

[Pylon]

No.

That's not a community service project, that's donating blood.  Good on'ye and enjoy the coffee mugs.

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

While many might be inclined to agree with you, those are pretty much your opinions.  Much like the MOVSM is open to a very wide range of interpretation by approving military commanders, the CAP community service ribbon is also equally vague.  We give commanders discretion for a reason, and so it will be up to the discretion of the member's commander whether or not his service qualifies.  The best the CAPTalk peanut gallery can offer on this matter are opinions and past experiences.

[Eclipse]

^ Yep.

[lordmonar]

Was wondering if 60 blood donations to the American Red Cross might qualify towards the 60 hours credit required for the Community Service Ribbon since each blood donation typically takes at least one hour to complete?

No.

That's not a community service project, that's donating blood.  Good on'ye and enjoy the coffee mugs.

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

WTF OVER!

No where does it say it has to be something "you're not going to do anyway"  or "not something you receive accolade for from another organization". 

That is just asinine!

[DBlair]

Was wondering if 60 blood donations to the American Red Cross might qualify towards the 60 hours credit required for the Community Service Ribbon since each blood donation typically takes at least one hour to complete?

No.

That's not a community service project, that's donating blood.  Good on'ye and enjoy the coffee mugs.

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

For the sake of discussion/debate...

According to your post, that would mean that the CSR is not intended to reward people for the Service they already do/have done, but to encourage them to take on new service projects specifically for the CSR, projects that wouldn't be recognized by any other organization.

With this logic, I would venture to say that most CSRs would never have been awarded. There is always the chance that another organization/entity will recognize someone for their community service. Cadets often use the service hours for school requirements, scholarships, other organizations, etc. So what if another organization recognizes it or applauds it in some way, they are a separate entity and not part of CAP. Its not like they are using the same hours for two CAP CSRs.

As for the idea that it should be something you wouldn't do anyway, what about the many people who regularly volunteer in their community, does that mean that since they are committed to serving their community and do it regularly, that they shouldn't be recognized for the CSR? Its not like the CSR regs stipulate that there is a starting date, so why not count hours that have already been accrued- especially since they were earned without even the enticement of another ribbon, which in my opinion, is even more honorable.

Also, it doesn't say it has to be a "community service project", but rather community service hours, that may or may not be a community service project. CAP Knowledgebase shows this with the examples given of community service that counts for the CSR.

I think of it this way, service is service. If they do it specifically for the ribbon, fine. If they already do community service, even better. The point is to encourage members to be active in serving their community, not to say only certain community service is applicable.


PS- We have to remember, its not like the CSR is a Commander's Commendation, DSM, MSA, ESA, SMOV, BMOV, but rather its just a ribbon to recognize members who do community service.

[Eclipse]

Was wondering if 60 blood donations to the American Red Cross might qualify towards the 60 hours credit required for the Community Service Ribbon since each blood donation typically takes at least one hour to complete?

No.

That's not a community service project, that's donating blood.  Good on'ye and enjoy the coffee mugs.

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

For the sake of discussion/debate...

According to your post, that would mean that the CSR is not intended to reward people for the Service they already do/have done, but to encourage them to take on new service projects specifically for the CSR, projects that wouldn't be recognized by any other organization.

With this logic, I would venture to say that most CSRs would never have been awarded.

Yep.

Me personally, I want to see something more than people comparing their resumes to 39-3 and seeing what floats out, but if you're a commander, you can sign it, them's the rules.

[Spike]

Um, donating blood is community service.  Most of us can donate blood, but only a small amount do.  Doing something that helps others in need, is in itself the basis of community service. 

Now, washing firetrucks and telling me it was community service when I know that washing fire trucks is a juvenile sentence in my local community will not fly, and then I will ask "what did you do that you were ordered to wash the fire trucks".  Two Cadets came to me with letters signed by the volunteer Fire Chief, wanting credit toward a ribbon.  I had to deny it once they admitted it was punishment for fighting at school. 

[ascorbate]

Just a little background... I first started donating blood occasionally when I attended college. Then about 14 years ago, my mother was in a very serious automobile accident (two broken legs, etc) and she needed blood. At the time, I was most grateful for the volunteer network of blood donors who helped to insure a steady supply of whole blood for people in dire need. Had this network not existed, my mother would have perished from her injuries. Needless to say, I got to spend another 10 years with my mother before she was ravaged by colon cancer. After I saw how my mother benefited directly from the existing donor blood supply, I wanted to give back to a system from which my mother had benefited... and I have given religiously almost every 56 days ever since because I can... when so many other people who can... won't!

I intend to continue my bi-monthly donations until I no longer can...  Be a Blood Donor!

[Al Sayre]

Um, donating blood is community service.  Most of us can donate blood, but only a small amount do.  Doing something that helps others in need, is in itself the basis of community service. 

Now, washing firetrucks and telling me it was community service when I know that washing fire trucks is a juvenile sentence in my local community will not fly, and then I will ask "what did you do that you were ordered to wash the fire trucks".  Two Cadets came to me with letters signed by the volunteer Fire Chief, wanting credit toward a ribbon.  I had to deny it once they admitted it was punishment for fighting at school.

Agree, that's about the only type of letter I wouldn't approve for it:  "Joey Bagadonuts, Case # 1234xyz, has completed 5000 hours of community service and is hereby released..." 

Unfortunately I was stationed in Italy during the 80's, so I'm not permitted to give blood anymore...

[Gunner C]

Same here.  I had malaria 1978 from my little trip to Iran.  I liked donating blood.  It got you out of PT and the female medics were outstanding. 

I would say that if you're not getting paid or if you're not paying back a debt, then it's creditable community service.

[AirDX]

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

So if the judge sentences me to 240 hours of community service in lieu of a week in the slam, I can put in for another ribbon?  Cool! 

[Eclipse]

Approval of the CSR is subjective to the local CC, however it should be something you're not going to do anyway, and not something you receive accolades for from another organization.

So if the judge sentences me to 240 hours of community service in lieu of a week in the slam, I can put in for another ribbon?  Cool! 

That's exactly what we're not saying, and what was stated explicitly above...

[SoCalMarine]

OK, here's a question. I would gather that unless specifically stated that it cannot, that the CSR can be awarded retroactively?

If that's the case, how far back? Clearly, the time frame would only include the time you've been a member in CAP but for some that's a year and other's its 10 or more. How far back?

As for me, I've got documented community service the entire time since I rejoined CAP in 10/2009. Could I count all the service that's documented during that time?

Now, I don't want opinions on whether the service is valid an all the rest. Just simply asking if the award is retroactive and how far back you'd go. We have plenty of people in the squadron who have never put in their time. As the personnel officer I'd like to work on getting them awarded. I've just not been able to find any guidance on the retroactive issue.

[JC004]

They are by definition awarded retroactively because the hours are performed in the past.

The requirements do not specify anything about CAP membership requirements, so there is now "how far back."

The requirement is 60 hours outside CAP that isn't performed as part of a CAP community service project.  It's simple.  Keep it simple.

[SoCalMarine]

They are by definition awarded retroactively because the hours are performed in the past.

The requirements do not specify anything about CAP membership requirements, so there is now "how far back."

The requirement is 60 hours outside CAP that isn't performed as part of a CAP community service project.  It's simple.  Keep it simple.

Well right, but every award is retroactive in that sense. No one gets awarded for something they've not yet done.

What I mean is in the typical military sense of the word... retroactive meaning previous years, or not retroactive meaning only current year.

Well, I think membership requirements aren't mentioned because its generally a given that you can't earn an award in an organization for something you did when you weren't part of that organization. I mean, I saved a guy's life back in 1990 by giving CPR when he collapsed with a heart attack along with the help of a doctor on the tennis courts. I couldn't apply for a lifesaving award now for what I did than...

but you know what... come to think of it... I was still in CAP when that happened. I have the records showing I was a member then, and I have all the newspaper articles (whole newspaper even) about what I did. I wonder... haha... that would be an interesting look on the face of the person getting that F-120!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm a shmuck. Probably broke 60 hours during high school easy (hard not to!), but never kept track of it.

[James Shaw]

In keeping with some of the comments does that mean that if you receive the Presidential Volunteer Service Award that those hours "total" would count towards the Community Service Ribbon? They require hundreds even a couple of thousand hours!

[JC004]

In keeping with some of the comments does that mean that if you receive the Presidential Volunteer Service Award that those hours "total" would count towards the Community Service Ribbon? They require hundreds even a couple of thousand hours!

6,000 for the one that I have, in fact.  Why not?  They don't get cancelled out and they are tracked by a certifying organization.  You can't wear the PVSA on the uniform otherwise (although I think the ribbon should conform to those standards - bronze, silver, and gold star attachments - maybe 3 gold stars for the PCTSA).

[James Shaw]

6,000 for the one that I have, in fact.  Why not?  They don't get cancelled out and they are tracked by a certifying organization.  You can't wear the PVSA on the uniform otherwise (although I think the ribbon should conform to those standards - bronze, silver, and gold star attachments - maybe 3 gold stars for the PCTSA).

So.....

If I estimate close to right that means close to 12 devices for the CSR, but you can only wear 4 at a time. I dont believe that you can wear multiple CSR ribbons. That is a little overwhelming.....

Or as someone once told me about a previous award "prideful and pretentious" maybe?

I have 4180 recorded, I have the 4000 Presidential Cert.

[Eclipse]

The award is based on the subjective approval of the CC, so whether it can be awarded for service never previously discussed or before you joined CAP is up to him.

In my AOR I set the bar that the activity had to be pre-approved and formalized in advance.  It also had to be something you weren't planning on doing or had to do as part of service to another organization (church, etc.).   This was to prevent ribbon trollers breaking out 10 year old day minders to get a CSR. 

I had more than a few people putting in for going to church, or some work project they had to do anyway, etc.  I also had one request for a cadet who
had helped out at a private business for free.  This office provided "financial services", and somehow that was supposed to be a community service.This was not a pro-bono service or anything similar.  I also pointed out that CAP units were not a free labor pool.

YMMV.

[JC004]

When the number of devices exceeds the authorized maximum, a second ribbon is worn to the wearer's left of the initial ribbon. The second ribbon counts as one subsequent award.

The Community Service ribbon section doesn't limit itself to a single award or anything like that, so a second ribbon would fall under the above.

[James Shaw]

When the number of devices exceeds the authorized maximum, a second ribbon is worn to the wearer's left of the initial ribbon. The second ribbon counts as one subsequent award.

The Community Service ribbon section doesn't limit itself to a single award or anything like that, so a second ribbon would fall under the above.

Personally I could not do that, I might wear just the one ribbon and not worry about the rest. But it still nice to have it I guess.

[JC004]

You said "can," so I was responding to that part.  I don't even own one, let alone wear both.

[SoCalMarine]

If I estimate close to right that means close to 12 devices for the CSR, but you can only wear 4 at a time. I dont believe that you can wear multiple CSR ribbons. That is a little overwhelming.....

Well I think you're off. He said 6,000. The CSR is awarded for ever 60 hours. Doing the math that would be 100 awards... that is unless I messed someone's numbers up there. If that's the case, I'd say that the CSR requirements would need to be rewritten for sure. I mean, it would look stupid to have four of the same ribbons with nearly four Silver Stars on each.

This is another reason CAP needs to include the gold star like everyone else does to denote "x" number of Silver Stars.

[kmbarnes1]

This is another reason CAP needs to include the gold star like everyone else does to denote "x" number of Silver Stars.

Good Idea.... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to write this up and forward up the chain of command? If we don't submit something, nothing will ever change.

[SoCalMarine]

Good Idea.... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to write this up and forward up the chain of command? If we don't submit something, nothing will ever change.

Well, I just found out that Gen Courter's predecessor will be at my squadron tonight (yes everyone I WILL be in blues) so maybe I can ask him?

[jimmydeanno]

It's a simple as writing up the proposal and sending it to the nearest corporate officer in the chain of command.  If they like it, they'll propose it at the NB meeting.  If not, then it musn't be a good idea 

[Eclipse]

Good Idea.... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to write this up and forward up the chain of command? If we don't submit something, nothing will ever change.

Well, I just found out that Gen Courter's predecessor will be at my squadron tonight (yes everyone I WILL be in blues) so maybe I can ask him?

HWSRN?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

HWSRN?

If His Excellency, General Officer Commanding USRC is there a full report is expected.

Anyhoo...

I do a fair bit of work for my church, mostly serving as a lector (that's what Lutherans call it; others may call it a lay reader, liturgist, Eucharistic Minister, etc.).  I've done that for years.

Under Eclipse's criteria, that would not be acceptable for the CSR?   I'm not talking about getting church records for the last 15 years and trying to cadge a ribbon that way...it would be something I'd discuss with my pastor and unit CC in advance.

[NCRblues]

Good Idea.... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to write this up and forward up the chain of command? If we don't submit something, nothing will ever change.

Well, I just found out that Gen Courter's predecessor will be at my squadron tonight (yes everyone I WILL be in blues) so maybe I can ask him?

Uh... i hope he will not be attending your meeting... Since he was 2b'd....

[Майор Хаткевич]

Good Idea.... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to write this up and forward up the chain of command? If we don't submit something, nothing will ever change.

Well, I just found out that Gen Courter's predecessor will be at my squadron tonight (yes everyone I WILL be in blues) so maybe I can ask him?

HWSRN?

^^^

Bring a Video Camera. Figure out how to set up a live stream!

Take pictures!

[SarDragon]

Good Idea.... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to write this up and forward up the chain of command? If we don't submit something, nothing will ever change.

Well, I just found out that Gen Courter's predecessor will be at my squadron tonight (yes everyone I WILL be in blues) so maybe I can ask him?

Uh... i hope he will not be attending your meeting... Since he was 2b'd....

That's affirm. He doesn't show up in eServices.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Doesn't mean he can't try to show up...

[Flying Pig]

They are by definition awarded retroactively because the hours are performed in the past.

The requirements do not specify anything about CAP membership requirements, so there is now "how far back."

The requirement is 60 hours outside CAP that isn't performed as part of a CAP community service project.  It's simple.  Keep it simple.

Well right, but every award is retroactive in that sense. No one gets awarded for something they've not yet done.

What I mean is in the typical military sense of the word... retroactive meaning previous years, or not retroactive meaning only current year.

Well, I think membership requirements aren't mentioned because its generally a given that you can't earn an award in an organization for something you did when you weren't part of that organization. I mean, I saved a guy's life back in 1990 by giving CPR when he collapsed with a heart attack along with the help of a doctor on the tennis courts. I couldn't apply for a lifesaving award now for what I did than...

but you know what... come to think of it... I was still in CAP when that happened. I have the records showing I was a member then, and I have all the newspaper articles (whole newspaper even) about what I did. I wonder... haha... that would be an interesting look on the face of the person getting that F-120!

The President did.

[JC004]

They are by definition awarded retroactively because the hours are performed in the past.

The requirements do not specify anything about CAP membership requirements, so there is now "how far back."

The requirement is 60 hours outside CAP that isn't performed as part of a CAP community service project.  It's simple.  Keep it simple.

Well right, but every award is retroactive in that sense. No one gets awarded for something they've not yet done.

What I mean is in the typical military sense of the word... retroactive meaning previous years, or not retroactive meaning only current year.

Well, I think membership requirements aren't mentioned because its generally a given that you can't earn an award in an organization for something you did when you weren't part of that organization. I mean, I saved a guy's life back in 1990 by giving CPR when he collapsed with a heart attack along with the help of a doctor on the tennis courts. I couldn't apply for a lifesaving award now for what I did than...

but you know what... come to think of it... I was still in CAP when that happened. I have the records showing I was a member then, and I have all the newspaper articles (whole newspaper even) about what I did. I wonder... haha... that would be an interesting look on the face of the person getting that F-120!

The President did.

Actually...yes.

There is no "current" year in regulations. 

[SoCalMarine]

OK, so I'm home from the squadron meeting.

Good news is I got pictures. Bad news is that my friend (the ES office for the sqdn) apparently can't tell the difference between the immediate past national commander, and the immediate past WING commander.

Anyway, it was good to hang-out with the Col. He's a good guy. Plus, I popped some of the questions to him that we've been discussing here about the CSR, and even me obtaining a lifesaving award from all the way back in 1990.

Sorry to get some of you excited. I should have known better knowing Stayton the way I do. Not to mention I spent the night in the freaking hot service dress uniform.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why Service dress?

It's summer, I wouldn't dare go past the short sleeve.

[SoCalMarine]

Why Service dress?

It's summer, I wouldn't dare go past the short sleeve.

Primarily because it was the UOD.

The reasoning was that the squadron was doing ceremonies for two Mitchells, an Earhart, and a Spaatz as well as some SM awards of significant value AND because the current, and past, wing commanders were there.

Anyway, at the moment I'm in Colorado and it's about 62 outside and super windy. Today was the hottest day of the year so far though... 84 I think was the high.