Florida Wing gets "outstanding" in SAREVAL

[Eclipse]

You don't have people participating with wet 101 cards and no clue why they are there in actual missions.

I wouldn't define the above as the "B" team - that's Frosh-soph at best.  Their time will come and there is likely someplace they can be of value and make good use of their time.

You and I both know I'm referring to people barely clear of level one who are wandering around trying to "help", or worse, asking directors and other staff to sign things off, print their 101, whatever, when those BD's are trying to actually get things done.  My favorite are the MP's who think there is time to do Form 5 / 91 check rides because they haven't touched a stick since last year.

They have no business in that ICP - training is done at the home unit - SAREX's and certainly real missions are for showing what you've learned at home. That doesn't mean you can't get some tasking done, and certainly learn something, but its not where you get your credential issues worked out because you couldn't be bothered the 6 months previous.

[BillW]

How many cadets participated and in what role?

The other issue was nothing was set up for cadet accommodations and many participants needed to spend at least one night at Ormond Beach, and many spent 2 nights there.

What special accommodations need to be set up? I've been to many a SAREX where everybody slept in the same drill hall. I've been to an encampment where the only thing separating the seniors from the cadets in the bay was the standard 24" between racks.

By accommodations I mean everything that would go into having more cadets at the event. Originally it was planned to have many more participating, but the AF changed the Eval date about 45 days out. I already had a dozen cadets from my group alone committed to support an EAA activity (which they preferred to a SAREVAL), many were preparing for the Ultimate Cadet Challenge, and finding any available cadets within 100 miles of the event was tough enough. There was no bivouac available on-site, so many of the seniors funded their own hotel rooms making the cost prohibitive for a few of the available cadets. Probably half the participants had to travel over 200 miles and many over 400 miles to the event, so they couldn't come in on Friday morning and make a trip back overnight to get the cadets for Saturday. Because of how spread out people are in the state we had many coming in one at a time by various means which would prevent them from bringing cadets with them.

[BillW]

As to the comments about being invited - that's not being exclusive, that's playing your varsity team for the big game, same as you would for the real-world missions.

You don't have people participating with wet 101 cards and no clue why they are there in actual missions.

If they have the quals, I would expect someone to be able to show up to an exercise/eval/real mission and do the job. Does this mean they'll do it as good as the GTM1 or the GTL, probably not.

I can see playing your A team for an eval, but not thowing the B team in on a real mission will stop them from ever seeing a real mission.

YMMV

The last SAREX I attended at Grundman Field had people arrive, without prior arraignment, from Atchison to Grand Island, and it was no problem finding missions for them. But, when you have 50 people already scheduled for training during a SAREX, you can't just let people show up at the last minute and expect to get a mission any more than you can allow 40 people to self-deploy to an actual mission base unannounced. What if 12 mission pilots show up and there's only 5 sorties - and none of the pilots are qualified in anything but aircrew?

As for getting newly qualified members real experience, I'd say 50% of our new crews participate in an actual mission (assuming they're available) within 6 months. I recently had a couple new UDF/MO trainees get 2 actual finds (non-distress) within 3 hours of completing training. Between all the boats and 20% of the world's flight training within 200 miles you get plenty of practice, which is a big help for Florida.

[Stonewall]

The email I got in FLWG stated simply that "cadets can participate but they must have a 101 card and will be assigned solely to gopher or parking duties".

IMHO, it was pre-planned that cadets' participation would be limited.  YMMV.

[BrandonKea]

The email I got in FLWG stated simply that "cadets can participate but they must have a 101 card and will be assigned solely to gopher or parking duties".

IMHO, it was pre-planned that cadets' participation would be limited.  YMMV.

And I would say as a Cadet, I wouldn't have gone to that, which was probably the intention of putting that out the way it was.

[Gunner C]

The email I got in FLWG stated simply that "cadets can participate but they must have a 101 card and will be assigned solely to gopher or parking duties".

IMHO, it was pre-planned that cadets' participation would be limited.  YMMV.

And I would say as a Cadet, I wouldn't have gone to that, which was probably the intention of putting that out the way it was.

Well, it's their sandbox and the ploy seemed to work.

[DBlair]

After a little bit of thought: This is the first wing in CAP I've ever been in where SAREVAL participation is by-invitation-only. Are there any other wings that do that?

That part of it seems a bit scripted.  Keep out the riff-raff and make sure you look your best?  Hmmm.

I agree. In other Wings, any qualified members can participate and so it better evaluates the whole of the Wing rather than a few hand-selected members who are probably the best at what they do.

I'm not saying that FL doesn't do an excellent job, but the fact that it is by invitation-only makes it seem kind of rigged and tends to further discourage qualified members from participating in ES.

Already many members in FL complain that ES (as well as certain other areas) is a 'good ol' boys' club of only certain people being included and so they start to not see the point of getting qualified or remaining current.

This complaint is especially strong among Cadets, but equally applies to SMs. When we try to push Cadets (or SMs) to get involved in ES and so forth, it is increasingly met with the attitude of "Why bother? Its not like Cadets in FL get to go out on GTs anyway..." or "Why bother? We'll never get to participate anyway..."

In my previous Wing, we used Cadets to a very large extent on GTs (GTs were mainly comprised of Cadets) as they were often highly trained (usually, more than the SMs regarding GT stuff) especially considering that back then the Wing's Basic and Advanced GSAR school was considered the pinnacle achievement of Wing-sponsored activities and it was mostly attended by Cadets with a few SMs here and there. Cadets were also included to a great deal in the Comm section as well as other Mission Base operations.

My point is that to exclude Cadets from Ground Teams is to greatly limit your pool of qualified, eager, and highly motivated personnel, and I don't think it is right to push them to get qualified only to have them learn that they will never get to participate.

[Gunner C]

IMO:

• It gives the non-invitees a feeling of being second tier members (especially cadets)
• It perpetuates the "Good Ol' Boys", which is a problem in every wing I've been a member

[BuckeyeDEJ]

IMO:

• It gives the non-invitees a feeling of being second tier members (especially cadets)
• It perpetuates the "Good Ol' Boys", which is a problem in every wing I've been a member

But not just that. It misrepresents the true capabilities of the wing -- if your 'A' team shows for the evaluation, but a week later, a team of run-of-the-mill members is called on an actual and blows it, what does that say? It doesn't look good. That's my concern, that maybe we're not "keeping it real."

[heliodoc]

Good for FL for their eval

How many of those more qualified members gonna be around to assit in the training of the future???

Hand selection of a few members???  You all "gonna" be around in the next 50 or so years for all you 50 and 60 year old "special CAP operators??""  I know being 50 yrs old, that I will not be the only "hand selected" for SAR EVALs

Better train your future leaders!!!  How do suppose the RM survives???

Again GREAT for your successes, now look to training your future replacements ...Can't hand select for every mission to "look good!"

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Hang on, Helio.

Aren't we all trained to the same standard? Aren't we all supposed to be trained using the same consistent curriculum and evaluated fairly by truthful and knowledgeable evaluators?

So why are some invited and some discouraged? That's what smacks of "good-ol'-boy"-ism. Unless it's an admission that the system is broken -- that we're not all trained to the same standard because we have problems with our own system and its veracity. That's an even bigger problem, one that smacks us right in the core values.

An announcement went out calling for SAREVAL participants with the line that members shouldn't be surprised they're not invited "if I don't know you." I didn't know that guy, and I'm a qualified IO, MO, MS and MRO, and have been in three or four different wings. When would I ever meet that guy? I don't have an answer to that, nor would I. As a result, I didn't think about participation, and with that sort of approach, I doubt I'd ever break into the inner circle.

A hand-picked group evaluated, representative of the entire wing? With all due respect, as more than one old, cranky editor would say, "that just doesn't pass the smell test."

[heliodoc]

I am there with ya, Buckeye

It DOES NOT pass the smell test...

In the RM ALOT of folks did not KNOW each other when I was a turbine engine mech...we all went to the same turbine engine school at FT Eustis, VA but we knew our gig and were more than helpful getting the new guys up to speed for those dreaded"inspections" by Gen Rottencrotch and how he  knew things about those T53L13B and 703 engines

So my views is:  If your are not training your successors or the future, just 'cuz you want to look good for the AF SAR EVAL Team, that is your business.  The real training and future of CAP is HOW WELL those SPECIAL CAP OPERATORS who were hand selected and tellin all those others writing here on how it is on the squadrons (which it is) and thinking just b"cuz "we don not know you" is a crock of craaaaap

But CAP iss STILLLLLL a !@#$$%^GOB and anyone  denying that is BSing the rest of the membership!!  Thosefolks still need an education.  And know what??  Those folks ARE STILL volunteers.  They may think they are somethin' special....but theysupposedly "train" like the rest of us but need MORE education on how ell to play with others

Yep it may be their sandbox,,,,,,,,,  BUT it's a joke and there is STILL plenty of time to train DURING a SAREX no matter what.  No matter what those folks in FLA tell us , me , or you!!

[Gunner C]

I am there with ya, Buckeye

It DOES NOT pass the smell test...

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