Excess FEMA Trailer's for CAP use

[DNall]

^Exactly. That's what we need to build right there. Thats' the concept we talked months back. That conversation was all about a unbit for disaster swith no/low infrastructure. One of the features discussed was sat internet from which to run both wifi & net based phone service, and of course getting data down from SDIS & ARCHER to that FOB location where you're standing with the customer providing real-time intel.

[Major_Chuck]

This is good and bad.  I've seen the row upon row of FEMA trailers at Fort Pickett and talked with a few people that have actually been inside them.  Some are in good shape, others not.  It all depends on who occupied them, how long, and how long they've sat unused.

VA Wing has two crew cab pickups.   One purchased to support the glider program, the other the Comm Program.

Several units that I know of have fielded communications vans and trailers.  They don't seem to last too long.  Either the member that owns the equipment quits or interest dies off.  They cost money to operate and maintain.

Sort of like a Trojan Horse.  You don't know what is inside.

[RogueLeader]

It would be good to get one for mobile comm station.  Even get a generator for it so it's a M*R*O*P
Mobile Radio Operations Platform
<M*A*S*H theme in background>

[mikeylikey]

I hate it when I am right (for all you who said I was throwing around non-credible nonesense in this thread earlier).  NHQ just followed FEMA advice and has put out a new Interim Change Letter regarding these trailers.  Overnight stays inside the trailers are no longer allowed!

here is the letter for you to read --->  http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_02_16_CAP_Trailer_Precautions.pdf

[JohnKachenmeister]

I thought we only wanted them as offices, anyway.

[Al Sayre]

Can't stay overnight, but I guess it's ok to sit in there and run a mission/exercise what ever all day...

[PHall]

So you can't sleep in them for 8 hours but it's alright to spend up to 20 hours a day working out of one?
I know there's some logic out there somewhere, but I'm just not seeing it.

[♠SARKID♠]

Wow, glad we made our MCC out of a Winnebago.

[JohnKachenmeister]

So you can't sleep in them for 8 hours but it's alright to spend up to 20 hours a day working out of one?
I know there's some logic out there somewhere, but I'm just not seeing it.

I asked that question of one of our members who owns an Environmental Service company.  He told me that formaldehyde is not all that dangerous, and if the trailer is vented, there should be no problem at all.  Using it as a HQ means that the door will be constantly opening, windows open, etc, which will vent the trailer more than sleeping for several hours straight while "Buttoned up."

He laughed when he read the letter, and said if formaldehyde was that dangerous, every rat-dissecting high school biology student would be dead by now.

[jimmydeanno]

So you can't sleep in them for 8 hours but it's alright to spend up to 20 hours a day working out of one?
I know there's some logic out there somewhere, but I'm just not seeing it.

I asked that question of one of our members who owns an Environmental Service company.  He told me that formaldehyde is not all that dangerous, and if the trailer is vented, there should be no problem at all.  Using it as a HQ means that the door will be constantly opening, windows open, etc, which will vent the trailer more than sleeping for several hours straight while "Buttoned up."

He laughed when he read the letter, and said if formaldehyde was that dangerous, every rat-dissecting high school biology student would be dead by now.

My grandfather laughed when people told him smoking would give him lung cancer.  He was right, it only gave him emphysema...

[SarDragon]

From Wikipedia (with footnotes):

Safety
Occupational exposure to formaldehyde by inhalation is mainly from three types of sources: thermal or chemical decomposition of formaldehyde-based resins, formaldehyde emission from aqueous solutions (for example, embalming fluids), and the production of formaldehyde resulting from the combustion of a variety of organic compounds (for example, exhaust gases). Formaldehyde can be toxic, allergenic, and carcinogenic.[7] Because formaldehyde resins are used in many construction materials, formaldehyde is one of the more common indoor air pollutants.[8] At concentrations above 0.1 ppm in air, formaldehyde can irritate the eyes and mucous membranes, resulting in watery eyes. If inhaled, formaldehyde at this concentration may cause headaches, a burning sensation in the throat, and difficulty breathing, as well as triggering or aggravating asthma symptoms.[9]

Formaldehyde is classified as a probable human carcinogen by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which provides sufficient evidence that formaldehyde causes nasopharyngeal cancer in humans by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.[10] The United States Environmental Protection Agency USEPA allows no more than 0.016 ppm formaldehyde in the air in new buildings constructed for that agency.[11]

Formaldehyde can cause allergies, and is part of the standard patch test series. People with formaldehyde allergy are advised to avoid formaldehyde releasers as well (e.g., Quaternium-15, imidazolidinyl urea, and diazolidinyl urea).[12] Formaldehyde has been banned in cosmetics in both Sweden and Japan.


Toxic FEMA Trailer lawsuits
Toxic levels of Formaldehyde were found in millions of FEMA trailers given out to Hurricane Katrina victims.[13] As a result of the toxic gas exposure, lawsuits are being filed against FEMA.[14] Formaldehyde exposure can cause burning eyes and/or nose, coughing, difficulty breathing, and is shown to be carcinogenic - causing nasal and nasopharyngeal cancer, and possibly leukemia as well.[15] More than two years after residents of FEMA trailers deployed along the Mississippi Gulf Coast began complaining of breathing difficulties, nosebleeds and persistent headaches, U.S. health officials announced Thursday, February 14, 2008 that long-awaited government tests found potentially hazardous levels of toxic formaldehyde gas in both travel trailers and mobile homes provided by the agency.[16] The Federal Emergency Management Agency, which requested the testing by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said it would work aggressively to relocate all residents of the temporary housing as soon as possible. Levels of formaldehyde gas in 519 trailer and mobile homes tested in Louisiana and Mississippi were — on average — about five times what people are exposed to in most modern homes, the CDC reported. In some trailers, the levels were nearly 40 times customary exposure levels, raising fears that residents could suffer respiratory problems and potentially other long-term health effects, it said.

9. Symptoms of Low-Level Formaldehyde Exposures, Health Canada, http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/iyh-vsv/environ/formaldehyde_e.html
10.  http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol88/volume88.pdf "Formaldehyde".
11. Testing for Indoor Air Quality, Baseline IAQ, and Materials, http://www.epa.gov/rtp/new-bldg/environmental/s_01445.htm
12. Allergy to formaldehyde at DermNetNZ, http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/formaldehyde-allergy.html
13. Are FEMA trailers 'toxic tin cans'?, Mike Brunker, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14011193/from/ET/#storyContinued
14. Toxic FEMA Trailer Lawsuit Formaldehyde Lawyers, http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/toxic_fema_trailers
15. Formaldehyde and Cancer, http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/formaldehyde
16. http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehhe/trailerstudy/pdfs/SummaryofStudyFindings.pdf

Linky - MIKE

[Eclipse]

Not to be a FEMA apologist, but they didn't actually manufacture the trailers.

In any other situation the manufacturer would be liable, but we, as tax payers, have the deep pockets.

[SSgt Rudin]

I'll take 4, a cutting torch and a welder, hello new squadron building.

[Al Sayre]

Seems to me a lot of the formaldahyde problems would be solved by simply putting an exhaust fan on the roof to ensure that the fumes can't build up to toxic levels, but I'm just an engineer, what do I know...  "Dilution is the solution"

[Short Field]

Strange it is just the FEMA trailiers - and not the same model of trailer the RV dealers have been selling for ages.

In fairness to the warning - I heard there were some trailers that FEMA bought that had been "custom" built for them.  The mods seem to be mainly replacing typical RV amenities with less expensive options - like smaller windows. 

HOWEVER, the trailer I picked up for the wing had never been used and was a very nice standard RV model.    

[mikeylikey]

UPDATE!

https://www.capnhq.gov/news/news24Jul08.htm

New testing procedures, and notice to post results of such test.  Hurry, testing will only be paid by NHQ until SEPTEMBER 2008!!