Changes to GT Gear List

[sardak]

Let me provide some input as the NASAR Standards Review Unit Manager (called the Standards Reveiw Liaison on the org chart on page 3 of the document at http://www.nasar.org/files/programadministration/Chapter_2_-_NASAR_Operations.pdf).

But my point is that NASAR probably does not have a "Ground Team Packing List Standard" the way CAP GT does.

As the other pointed out, it most certainly does have such a list and it is required to have all the items on the list to be certified as a SARTECH II. It even specifies the minimum volume the pack must be. There is also an equipment list for SARTECH I. However, these lists aren't standards.

The SARTECH II equipment list was one of the 20 lists I used in my compilation posted earlier in this thread. That compilation is an appendix in ASTM Standard F2209 "Guide for Training of Level I Land Search Team Member." SARTECH III and II comply with standard F2209.

Well......NASAR is in the Standards Buisness.

NASAR does not develop or sell standards. NASAR develops and sells educational materials, teaches classes for $ and provides certification exams for $. SARTECH is a certification, a credential if you want to call it that, but it is not a standard. You do not have to take any NASAR classes or use the FUNSAR book to take the SARTECH II certification exam. The list of "standards" Major Lord linked to are course/classes, not standards.

There is a NASAR document titled "Standards for SARTECH III, II, I and Crewleader III." These are certification standards - the course content, procedures and exams are standardized internal to NASAR. A person who desires to teach and certify SARTECH must meet these standards. SARTECH itself is not the standard.

SARTECH has become a de facto standard because it's curriculum and certification have been the only ones available nationally. However, the National Park Service just last month publicly released its SAR Technician 3 course which includes an online course module, classroom module. 24-hour pack list and position task book. This is all free. The NPS is the lead federal agency for ESF #9 Land SAR. How do you think this will affect SARTECH as the "standard"? Link to thread on NPS SAR Tech - Type 3  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13155.0

One last point, the NIMS SAR Credentialing and Typing Working Group originally specified SARTECH as a requirement. When it was pointed out that this is a certification and not a standard, they changed the requirement to the generic, "parent" ASTM F2209 standard.

Mike

Edited to add link to NPS thread

[sardak]

I found it interesting that 100% required a compass, yet only 13% required a map...

24-hour pack lists are for personal equipment and many organization don't consider maps personal equipment. They're usually required, but the maps are issued as team equipment, like radios and to a [much] lesser extent, GPS units.

Mike

[commando1]

I generally try to keep a map of my AO in my gear. Granted, it is not a very detailed map but for interstate/highway driving it has been a major help before. I have been on SAREX's before where the team leader had to stop at the local Wal-Mart to buy some maps to figure out where we were/were we needed to be. 

[ol'fido]

I am a map rat. I hate to throw away a map. Even the cheap tourist maps. One of these days though I am going to buy an extra Delorme, cut the pages for Southern Illinois out and have them laminated so I can take the one or two I might need with me and leave the rest at base.

[srtmedic]

One last point, the NIMS SAR Credentialing and Typing Working Group originally specified SARTECH as a requirement. When it was pointed out that this is a certification and not a standard, they changed the requirement to the generic, "parent" ASTM F2209 standard.

Mike

Edited to add link to NPS thread

I have just gone to FEMA and pulled up their Designing a National Emergency Responder Credentialing System Search and Rescue (SAR) Working Group document under SAR Job Title 35: Wilderness Search and/or Rescue Technician, SAR Job Title 36: Wilderness Search and/or Rescue Unit Leader; NASAR SARTECH II, and I are still being listed as part of the requirements.

This document from FEMA is dated Nov 2006 and that is the most current version on their site.  There is nothing in this document under SAR Job Title 35 and 36 that states that NASAR is not accepted.

If NASAR has been removed from the credentialing process as you have stated above Mike, then please point us in the right direction.

[sardak]

I have just gone to FEMA and pulled up their Designing a National Emergency Responder Credentialing System Search and Rescue (SAR) Working Group document under SAR Job Title 35: Wilderness Search and/or Rescue Technician, SAR Job Title 36: Wilderness Search and/or Rescue Unit Leader; NASAR SARTECH II, and I are still being listed as part of the requirements.

That's because they are the only document released by FEMA. The SAR Working Group has repeatedly asked that it be removed but FEMA thinks bad is better than nothing, so they won't pull the documents.

As has been said though, since SAR Tech complies with ASTM standard F2209, SAR Tech should meet the new requirements if they're ever finished.

Mike

[ThatOneGuy]

Add in steel wool or some other fire source besides matches, as they do not always work... A first aid kit with some more stuff in it, and I think it'd be neat if they had a summer list and a winter list (but I do like to think of my own gear I will need in those good ol' Colorado Winters  )

[srtmedic]

I have just gone to FEMA and pulled up their Designing a National Emergency Responder Credentialing System Search and Rescue (SAR) Working Group document under SAR Job Title 35: Wilderness Search and/or Rescue Technician, SAR Job Title 36: Wilderness Search and/or Rescue Unit Leader; NASAR SARTECH II, and I are still being listed as part of the requirements.

That's because they are the only document released by FEMA. The SAR Working Group has repeatedly asked that it be removed but FEMA thinks bad is better than nothing, so they won't pull the documents.

As has been said though, since SAR Tech complies with ASTM standard F2209, SAR Tech should meet the new requirements if they're ever finished.

Mike

so, let me make sure i am clear on this.  nasar sartech certification does meet astm standard.  is that correct or not.  i know that nasar is re-writing their funsar book and i would also assume that the other books will follow.

[arajca]

Add in steel wool or some other fire source besides matches, as they do not always work... A first aid kit with some more stuff in it, and I think it'd be neat if they had a summer list and a winter list (but I do like to think of my own gear I will need in those good ol' Colorado Winters  )

National had the not fun job of coming up with a basic list that worked in all 50 states. There are items that can (and should) be added based on YOUR local environments. A multi-layer winter coat system and -40 degree sleeping bag may not be necessary in Florida, but can definitiely be useful up here where the air is rare. As long as you havethe basics, you can add to it as necessary and prudent.

[sardak]

nasar sartech certification does meet astm standard.  is that correct or not.

Yes, you are correct.

Mike

[srtmedic]

thank you mike for your very informative posts.

[Jerry Jacobs]

We also know that the "boot shine circle" is an age-old tradition that in my experience is some of the most effective CISM you will find, and generally all CAP members need.

I seriously hope you don't actually do or believe this

[Major Lord]

Jerry,

Now that you are getting to an age when you will switch to the dark side, let me tell you how CISM is handled in the real world. In the words of Marge Simpson, you take those bad, bad feelings, and push them down so deep that you can almost walk on them. As soon as you are with a like minded group ( I.e., Cops, ER Docs, Nurses, soldiers, SAR guys who have seen the elephant, etc.) You drink a powerful emetic known by its chemical name as  ETOH. Eventually, the ETOH will dissolve the bad feelings and are quickly regurgitated. In the mean time, your coworkers and team mates will use positive reinforcement to create an environment that compels you to ingest as much ETOH as possible to achieve the psycho-chemical attitude adjustment you require for your particular level of stress, and a form of cognitive therapy involving mocking and full water immersion if you should happen to exhibit inappropriate levels of emotionally labile behaviors ( crying into your beer, rolling up into the fetal position, etc.)

In double blind studies, this treatment was found to be superior to aroma therapy, spousal abuse, Rolfing, or climbing onto a roof top with an AK-47.

Major Lord
p.s. I hope that DF thing I built for you still works!

[Jerry Jacobs]

I dont think that DF Unit will ever break, built like a tank!