Flares pistol

[Eclipse]

are we not required to have a fire extinguisher in our vehicles?
and what about the hand held ones in survival kits?

Not in POV's, and besides, you're probably not in your vehicle for an LZ.

I don't carry a hand-held fire extinguisher in my "survival kit".  If anything in survival mode you want to start a fire, not put one out.

[Capination]

No thanks.

In a CAP context they will never be needed, but that sure are tempting to "try"...

I guess that that "CAP Context" is kind of limited. What about ditching in the ocean @ 4AM in a Counterdrug mission. I bet you taking out CAPR 900-3 will not help me signal a USCG helicopter.

If you ditch a Cessna in the Ocean at 4am, you are not likely to have enough left of you to be able to fire a flare.  I doubt there is too much
CD work over the ocean at 4am, either.

Let me see, sun comes up at 5:30AM, you take off form airport A at 4AM and land at airport B for refueling at 4:40AM. Take off again at 5AM enroute to your area and reach it at 5:30AM exactly at sunrise. You doubt too much.

[ol'fido]

With some control measures in place, ie a fire extinguisher on hand and a specific place to put it where it wont set anything on fire, i feel like it could be used well. However i can understand the reasoning behind it not being allowed.

Which sucker gets to carry the fire extinguisher so you can use the smoke grenade one out of 5,0000 sorties?

Frankly, I don't carry one and don't know how to use one. Don't even know where to procure one. In Illinois, LZs consist of "Land in that grass over there".

Depends on what part of Illinois you're talking about.

[Spaceman3750]

With some control measures in place, ie a fire extinguisher on hand and a specific place to put it where it wont set anything on fire, i feel like it could be used well. However i can understand the reasoning behind it not being allowed.

Which sucker gets to carry the fire extinguisher so you can use the smoke grenade one out of 5,0000 sorties?

Frankly, I don't carry one and don't know how to use one. Don't even know where to procure one. In Illinois, LZs consist of "Land in that grass over there".

Depends on what part of Illinois you're talking about.

True. If I got down south things would be a bit different.

[lordmonar]

A tool is a tool.

If you don't trust your ground teams with a simple smoke grenade....why are you trusting them with knives and 10 Pax vans?

[NIN]

I've probably tossed a thousand smokes and assorted military pyro over my career, and I can't think of a man-portable device that will extinguish one.

And they are not very complicated machines.  Even a senior member could safely use one.

Agree. I've probably used a smoke grenade 2-3 times for legit CAP signalling purposes (the aircrew positively love it when they're trying to ID you from the air and you throw red smoke..), and at least 2-3 dozen times for military purposes.  Its not rocket surgery.

Clearly, throwing an M-18 on the nearest haybale is not going to win you the Smokey The Bear "Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires" Award, so be smart when you employ the device.

Same goes for pen flares (which I have also used as a signalling device for CAP purposes.. I stopped carrying the darn things, though, when the set I'd been carrying for a fair amount of time in my gear finally went out of date and I didn't feel like buying new ones.. The usage was too limited).  Shooting Mr. Pen Flare in the middle of a high fire-danger area when life and limb are not at stake might get you a talking to from the Park Ranger.

Who here carries a signal mirror in their gear?

I did for over 20 years, in both my aviation survival gear and my ground team gear.  Never used it for anything but showing people how to use it, and to shave with in the field.

Then one day, we had air-to-ground radio, but due to some programming screw up, not ground-to-air.

So the aircrew would radio down "You want us to to go east?"

Two flashes yes, one flash no.

I was like "I've carried this darn thing for 20 years and I FINALLY get to use it!!!"

[Eclipse]

But will that work at 4am in the ocean?

Oh, yeah.  It would...even wet.

I have video I personally took from a CAP aircraft of a signal mirror on a boat in Lake Michigan and the intensity of the signal shocked
me.  Since then I am a true believer of the mirror (or CD, or phone face, or whatever).  Until I can find my video, this should do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwCbgQGmID4

Which is more effective?  (At 4am in the ocean)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPWTfKEPWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PhgbGnum0Y

Any other questions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7CX1cHKAnc

[thatonekid]

That last video is of roman candles, not flares...but I guess its the same concept...

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No idea how many hand flares or smoke grenades I have thrown in my time, and I can count the number of times I have seen one cause a fire on my closed fist. It doesn't matter where they are thrown, unless you are a complete ID-10-T you can't really mess one up. You can get both online pretty easily and they don't require any special licenses to purchase or own.

[Major Lord]

The water tight, O-ring sealed flare is a handy piece of kit for real world missions. It weighs less than an ounce. If you just run Sarex's, and don't do off road ground team missions, it might be over the top, but its your choice (within reason) what you want to haul on your back. After I found that Cyalume flares are 12 Gauge diameter, I whipped up a liner for my 26.5mm Flare gun chambered for the brass base of a 12 gauge shell ( It won't chamber 12 gauge flares or ammo) which I load with a pyrodex charge and a shotgun wad with a crimp seal. I "muzzle load" an ultrabright 4 minute glow stick, which is activated by the shock of the blank and goes straight up a couple hundred feet. It won't set the forest on fire, and of course, for distress, it would only be good at night. My main purpose for it is as a line thrower, since the Light sticks have a hole in the top to tie a piece of line to.

12 Gauge flareguns are awful;way to anemic.  26.5 mm flareguns are the real deal for the ocean, although I am personally fond of my 37mm grenade flare launcher, although they are pricey to plink with.......Rocket flares are the shizz!

Major Lord

[thatonekid]

Isnt that just a little bit excessive sir? 

[Eclipse]

That last video is of roman candles, not flares...but I guess its the same concept...

Agreed, though as you say, the same idea.  There are also a number of videos showing people starting campfires with flares.

So, since I owe you one, here's some highly trained individuals using a smoke grenade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgxr5WX9m48

[EMT-83]

What about the approved aircraft signaling techniques every ground team should know?

[ol'fido]

Do you just have one tool in the toolbox?

[thatonekid]

Thank you sir
Well...the best way to get a pilots attention is through flashes of color/light, so you could use a very large, shiny, psychedelic flag... I don't know about you guys but I always keep one of those in my back pocket, along with a crowbar, a canaster of napalm...*continues on a long list of destructive objects*...

[airdale12]

Who cares what the regs are in that instance. Keep it hidden in your bag, and someone with you may thank you later. Easier to get forgiveness than permission...

Thank YOU! Some people are just to by the books!

[EMT-83]

Ever been involved in an Internal Affairs Professional Practices investigation? An Air Force investigation?

There is no such thing as too much by the books.

[a2capt]

"SER-FL-000"  ;-)

Seriously, sometimes there's no such thing as too much by the books. It's especially fun when fending off lame complaints and they can't find a thing to get you on other than you followed the regulation, and with consistency, and someone is whining because they don't get their way. .. and gets it handed back to them.

[airdale12]

"SER-FL-000"  ;-)

Seriously, sometimes there's no such thing as too much by the books. It's especially fun when fending off lame complaints and they can't find a thing to get you on other than you followed the regulation, and with consistency, and someone is whining because they don't get their way. .. and gets it handed back to them.

Im not part of SER-FL-000 i just didnt want to share my squadron.

[a2capt]

Well, I'm sure the all deserving, bull in a china closet like attitude that is unfolding here is probably easy to spot by someone in your unit who may happen to pass through here. As in it's making a lot more sense to me why you may not be getting what you want.

As for the flair gun and fire arms mix, what do regulations that are in effect for the Area of Operation state? What about the Wing Operations people, what do they say? Some, such as NVWG have them, others may not. I've heard it both ways in passing discussion. I've got a couple smoke+light things in a metal can that I carry with me, personally, though I have not taken it on a CAP flight.