Flares pistol

Capination · May 23, 2011, 02:19:41 PM

Just getting some best practices from other wings. As you all know, pyrotechnic signaling devices are allowed as part of the survival equipment of aircrews. I have seen members carrying pen flares, others carry flares pistols and so on. CAPR 900-3 prohibits carrying firearms during CAP activities. For purposes of CAPR 900-3, do you consider a Pyrotechnic Signaling Device in the form of a flares pistol a firearm/weapon?

lordmonar · May 23, 2011, 02:29:03 PM

It is not what we think....but what does your wing CC and/or SE think.

Personally I don't think Pen Flares as part of surival gear is what 900-3 is was trying to control.

Eclipse · May 23, 2011, 02:37:42 PM

No thanks.

In a CAP context they will never be needed, but that sure are tempting to "try"...

MIKE · May 23, 2011, 03:00:00 PM

Some states consider flare guns a firearm and/or prohibit pyrotechnic visual distress signals in their boating laws.

Capination · May 23, 2011, 03:38:11 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on May 23, 2011, 02:37:42 PM
No thanks.

In a CAP context they will never be needed, but that sure are tempting to "try"...

I guess that that "CAP Context" is kind of limited. What about ditching in the ocean @ 4AM in a Counterdrug mission. I bet you taking out CAPR 900-3 will not help me signal a USCG helicopter.

MIKE · May 23, 2011, 03:43:46 PM

Light it on fire... it should show up good on the FLIR.

Eclipse · May 23, 2011, 04:18:37 PM

Quote from: Capination on May 23, 2011, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 23, 2011, 02:37:42 PM
No thanks.

In a CAP context they will never be needed, but that sure are tempting to "try"...

I guess that that "CAP Context" is kind of limited. What about ditching in the ocean @ 4AM in a Counterdrug mission. I bet you taking out CAPR 900-3 will not help me signal a USCG helicopter.

If you ditch a Cessna in the Ocean at 4am, you are not likely to have enough left of you to be able to fire a flare. I doubt there is too much
CD work over the ocean at 4am, either.

lordmonar · May 23, 2011, 04:51:43 PM

So we only plan our survival gear for the most likely situaitons?

Why do we even have survival gear in the first place.....I mean in most contexts you will: a) Not crash at all b) Not surivive the crash c) Crash during day light hours only one hour from rescure (yeah right!)

I know that NVWG has pen flares in their aircraft survival gear....so you can signal the rescure teams during hours of darkness.

sneakers · May 23, 2011, 05:03:05 PM

Who cares what the regs are in that instance. Keep it hidden in your bag, and someone with you may thank you later. Easier to get forgiveness than permission...

davidsinn · May 23, 2011, 05:10:47 PM

Quote from: pilot2b on May 23, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
Who cares what the regs are in that instance. Keep it hidden in your bag, and someone with you may thank you later. Easier to get forgiveness than permission...

Integrity?

Eclipse · May 23, 2011, 05:32:14 PM

Quote from: pilot2b on May 23, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
Who cares what the regs are in that instance. Keep it hidden in your bag, and someone with you may thank you later. Easier to get forgiveness than permission...

Excellent attitude...

SABRE17 · May 23, 2011, 07:36:15 PM

speaking of pyrotechnic signaling, a newer senior member in my unit asked me if we can use smoke grenades to signal air craft for the purposes of linking the aircraft up with a ground team,for the purpose of life and limb would that be acceptable?

Spaceman3750 · May 23, 2011, 07:39:34 PM

Quote from: SABRE17 on May 23, 2011, 07:36:15 PM
speaking of pyrotechnic signaling, a newer senior member in my unit asked me if we can use smoke grenades to signal air craft for the purposes of linking the aircraft up with a ground team,for the purpose of life and limb would that be acceptable?

You can use it to mark a landing zone for a medivac but you have to be very specific about where you place it - it's best to ask the aircrew if they want a smoke marker or if other LZ markings is enough.

Eclipse · May 23, 2011, 08:07:16 PM

Quote from: SABRE17 on May 23, 2011, 07:36:15 PM
speaking of pyrotechnic signaling, a newer senior member in my unit asked me if we can use smoke grenades to signal air craft for the purposes of linking the aircraft up with a ground team,for the purpose of life and limb would that be acceptable?

Do you intend to train with them with them on a regular basis?

Because a smoke grenade is as likely to set the user or team on fire as it is to signal for help if not used properly.

lordmonar · May 23, 2011, 08:09:09 PM

That's why they are pretty simple to use.

SABRE17 · May 23, 2011, 08:10:50 PM

With some control measures in place, ie a fire extinguisher on hand and a specific place to put it where it wont set anything on fire, i feel like it could be used well. However i can understand the reasoning behind it not being allowed.

Eclipse · May 23, 2011, 08:15:44 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on May 23, 2011, 08:09:09 PM
That's why they are pretty simple to use.

Heh, I guess smoke is smoke, whether it is the signal or the team...

Spaceman3750 · May 23, 2011, 08:24:55 PM

Quote from: SABRE17 on May 23, 2011, 08:10:50 PM
With some control measures in place, ie a fire extinguisher on hand and a specific place to put it where it wont set anything on fire, i feel like it could be used well. However i can understand the reasoning behind it not being allowed.

Which sucker gets to carry the fire extinguisher so you can use the smoke grenade one out of 5,0000 sorties?

Frankly, I don't carry one and don't know how to use one. Don't even know where to procure one. In Illinois, LZs consist of "Land in that grass over there".

Ned · May 23, 2011, 08:33:18 PM

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on May 23, 2011, 08:24:55 PM
Which sucker gets to carry the fire extinguisher so you can use the smoke grenade one out of 5,0000 sorties?

I've probably tossed a thousand smokes and assorted military pyro over my career, and I can't think of a man-portable device that will extinguish one.

And they are not very complicated machines. Even a senior member could safely use one.

Ned Lee
Retired Infantry Guy

SABRE17 · May 23, 2011, 08:34:38 PM

are we not required to have a fire extinguisher in our vehicles?
and what about the hand held ones in survival kits?