First Aid Card

[SARDOC]

I find in the Ground Team Task Guide that it's required that Ground Team members carry a First Aid Card.  Is this a Real requirement?  I don't think an Injured person is going to demand to see it before allowing First Aid Treatment and it doesn't really provide you any liability protection.  I ask this question because I'm in the process of Hosting a First Aid Class in my Squadron.  I can teach the class for Free but if a Card is required then the certifying agency I teach through wants $13.50 for the textbook.  The hook is they will only issue one card with the purchase of a new textbook making all the members of my squadron to have to purchase a textbook.  Is this just an antiquated requirement or is there some legitimate reason for having it physically on your person?

[RiverAux]

Probably no more so than having to carry a CAP identification card or 101 card on you. 

[Spaceman3750]

In my wing they like you to upload that stuff to OPS QUAL.

That said, is your class a certifying class if they don't issue a certification card?

The textbook bit is annoying when it comes to first aid/CPR classes. I'm a Red Cross instructor and I'm pretty happy that they made it so that you can use either the textbook or the skill card when you teach. The skill card is way cheaper and presents the important information from the class in a much easier format.

[RiverAux]

Keep in mind that depending on your state's laws you may need to actually have some official certification in order to be covered by your Good Samaritan law. 

CAP knowledgebase:Link

[SARDOC]

In my wing they like you to upload that stuff to OPS QUAL.

That said, is your class a certifying class if they don't issue a certification card?

The textbook bit is annoying when it comes to first aid/CPR classes. I'm a Red Cross instructor and I'm pretty happy that they made it so that you can use either the textbook or the skill card when you teach. The skill card is way cheaper and presents the important information from the class in a much easier format.

CAPR 60-3 Requires First Aid Training to be NGFATOS or ASTM F 2171-02 compliant.  Both of those standards are designed for Occupational Settings and most employers don't issue certification cards to employees because of the costs involved.  There is not requirement under those standards that a Card is required, just that the training is documented.  Yes...teaching a class can meet the standards as set forth in CAP regulations without being a certifying class, but the Ground team task guide says that a Card must be carried...there is a contradiction or a fundamental misunderstanding between the two documents and I was just curious if it was really a REQUIREMENT to have the card.

[SARDOC]

Keep in mind that depending on your state's laws you may need to actually have some official certification in order to be covered by your Good Samaritan law. 

CAP knowledgebase:Link

No My state's Good Sam law protects "ANY PERSON" acting in good Faith without compensation...no certification necessary.  The Only reason our CAP members require the First Aid Requirement is that the Regulations require it.  Thanks

[Skydude61]

In order to pass the requirement for GTM, you need to have the first aid course...

Sorry

[SARDOC]

In order to pass the requirement for GTM, you need to have the first aid course...

Sorry

Yes, They must attend a First Aid Course.  That's not the question.  That is not in debate.  The Question is does that class need to provide a certification card?  The Ground Team Field Task guide says ground team members must have a Card on their person. However, CAP Regulations state that First Aid training must meet the Standards that are recognized by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration...Those Standards do not require the Issuance of a card...thus the rub.  Please read the above posts again.  Thanks

[mclarke]

Your best bet is to talk with your nearest red cross. Explain who you are, what you do, and see if you can get a deal of some sort. My squadron is actually lucky in one of our members is a red cross CPR/FirstAid/Wilderness First aid, etc... instructor (certified). My understanding is the Red Cross will charge 5.00/person if your instructor will teach it for free.

The other thing that may help (if regulations dont forbid this) is talk to your medical officer or another member interested and have someone get Firstaid/CPR instructor certified thru the red cross. Then you save  a lot of money.

[ol'fido]

The  American Heart Association and the Mine Safety and Health Administration can also provide instruction and cards. I don't do GT anymore but I have to take AHA First Aid/CPR every year for work.

[Spaceman3750]

Your best bet is to talk with your nearest red cross. Explain who you are, what you do, and see if you can get a deal of some sort. My squadron is actually lucky in one of our members is a red cross CPR/FirstAid/Wilderness First aid, etc... instructor (certified). My understanding is the Red Cross will charge 5.00/person if your instructor will teach it for free.

The other thing that may help (if regulations dont forbid this) is talk to your medical officer or another member interested and have someone get Firstaid/CPR instructor certified thru the red cross. Then you save  a lot of money.

Each ARC chapter will charge some fee to instructors teaching on an authorized provider agreement (not teaching for the chapter - APs can be a bugaboo depending on the instructor's chapter) per person in the class. There's also other costs like a skill card (can be printed), DVD rental (if you can't stream the videos in), student first aid kit, manequins (if doing CPR), etc. You can still do it pretty on the cheap, but more than $5 usually unless someone's eating a cost somewhere.

That reminds me, I need to do the bridging training to wilderness first aid.

[mclarke]

Eh, I think he has all his own training stuff for this. I am not sure, however, for us its 5/person. Decent deal.

[Spaceman3750]

Eh, I think he has all his own training stuff for this. I am not sure, however, for us its 5/person. Decent deal.

Yeah, that's not bad at all. I wish I could cut my members a deal like that here, I can get close by only doing first aid but a bunch need CPR too. Ends up being about $10 for first aid and $15-$20 for FA/CPR if I had to guess offhand.

[Eclipse]

I almost guarantee that if your "certifying agency" found out you were doing recerts for free they would tell you to knock it off.

The relatively low cost for materials insure that people taking the classes have current information, and in turn helps to fund the program
you are instructing for.

Further, if you aren't issuing a new card, you aren't re certifying anyone, which means their qualification is invalid and put you, the members, and
CAP, Inc. at unnecessary risk for liability should someone get hurt using the things you "taught" them.

[mclarke]

I almost guarantee that if your "certifying agency" found out you were doing recerts for free they would tell you to knock it off.

The relatively low cost for materials insure that people taking the classes have current information, and in turn helps to fund the program
you are instructing for.

Further, if you aren't issuing a new card, you aren't re certifying anyone, which means their qualification is invalid and put you, the members, and
CAP, Inc. at unnecessary risk for liability should someone get hurt using the things you "taught" them.

Well, our guy is thru the red cross and has permission to do this for us. The fee he does charge is for the red cross, and we do get issued a card.

[Eclipse]

I almost guarantee that if your "certifying agency" found out you were doing recerts for free they would tell you to knock it off.

The relatively low cost for materials insure that people taking the classes have current information, and in turn helps to fund the program
you are instructing for.

Further, if you aren't issuing a new card, you aren't re certifying anyone, which means their qualification is invalid and put you, the members, and
CAP, Inc. at unnecessary risk for liability should someone get hurt using the things you "taught" them.

Well, our guy is thru the red cross and has permission to do this for us. The fee he does charge is for the red cross, and we do get issued a card.

This was meant to the OP about using old materials and trying to re-up.   Whether it is $1 or $100, few if any certifying bodies are going to
issue a card and by that token back the certification without charging something.  How much is between the instructor and the certifying body.

Frankly I don't want my GTM's learning First Aid from the local EMT or "my mom who is a Nurse".  Those people may be good at their jobs, but
that have not been certified as instructors, and there's a big difference between "knowing" and "teaching".  I want an objective curriculum that
someone stands behind and that works to get even the disinterested in the back of the room to demonstrate the skill at least once.

Generally people looking to use "in-house" talent are doing so for expedience, and I don't want "expedience" in the same sentence with
a skill that may save a life (maybe mine).

[SARDOC]

I almost guarantee that if your "certifying agency" found out you were doing recerts for free they would tell you to knock it off.

The relatively low cost for materials insure that people taking the classes have current information, and in turn helps to fund the program
you are instructing for.

Further, if you aren't issuing a new card, you aren't re certifying anyone, which means their qualification is invalid and put you, the members, and
CAP, Inc. at unnecessary risk for liability should someone get hurt using the things you "taught" them.

The Agency I use doesn't care if you use their curriculum to teach to the standard without the instructor charging a fee...They make their money from the sale of the Cards/Books.

CAP Regulations don't require Ground Team Members to be "Certified"...They need to be "Trained".  That's the semantical argument.  CAP Regs state that it must meet the OSHA standards (which don't require certification) but do identify certain learning objectives.  Most "Certifications" go far above and beyond what is required in the Occupational Settings.  Ultimately what is required by Civil Air Patrol Regulations doesn't rise to the "Certification" level provided by most agencies.  First Aid Treatment in my state is protected by the Good Samaritan Law for Any Person acting in good faith.  There is no malpractice liability for care at the First Aid Level...that's why the Civil Air Patrol restricts us to that level.  So I'm not too sure where this Liability you are referring to comes from.  As an Instructor, I maintain a Syllabus for every class for Five Years and Identified as "FINAL AS TAUGHT"  As long as the instruction met the Standard and doesn't exceed their scope of practice...their is no liability on my part.

My original question isn't about using old materials.  I'll be using the new required standard.  I just attended a First Aid Instructor update so the material being used is valid.   I have taught First Aid Classes in occupational settings which are tailored to the customer which is authorized by the Standards adopted by reference in CAPR 60-3.  The Only requirements CAP has is it must be at least 4 hours and Contain a practical evolution.  Most certifications require usually an 8 hour class.  My Original Question is...Is there a real requirement for a GTM to Possess a certification card?  Thanks

[EMT-83]

Thus the age-old question: are task guides regulatory? CAPR 60-3 is clearly regulatory, but doesn't require a card.

[SARDOC]

Thus the age-old question: are task guides regulatory? CAPR 60-3 is clearly regulatory, but doesn't require a card.

Yes.  That is the ultimate question.  I want to provide the training to our members at as low a cost as I can.  Some have opted to get the card because they need it for their employment so they have to buy the book/card, but we have a group of cadets who cannot afford the book/card but that's the last thing to complete their GTM3 and they have no other real need to possess a card.  They will attend the same class, perform the same practicals just won't get the card

[davidsinn]

My Original Question is...Is there a real requirement for a GTM to Possess a certification card?  Thanks

The answer is: It depends. I can't speak for your wing but my wing does require a card to be issued to meet the requirement. I think that's a good requirement because it ensures everyone is trained to approximately the same standard.