Presidential Medal of Freedom

[Ken]

Has any CAP member ever won the Presidential Medal of Freedom?

[Pylon]

Has any CAP member ever won the Presidential Medal of Freedom?

Wouldn't know.  CAP NHQ doesn't want CAP members wearing those pesky presitigious federal awards on the CAP uniform.  Ribbons for things like going to a week-long camp or watching a couple videos are much more important.    

Thank God people in Civil Air Patrol can't wear things like the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the USCG Medal for Lifesaving, NASA Medal for Exceptional Bravery, or the Department of State Meritorious Honor Award.

Military types can wear them, and civilians can wear lapel pins of the ribbons but thank God CAP members aren't allowed to display such petty federal awards.  That CAP ribbon for taking an open-book online test on middle-school-level material is so much more presitigious.

[/sarcasm class="thick"]

[John Bryan]

Well that is an interesting question.......I would guess the White House could provide a list to anyone in the public wanting to know who has earned it....but I am not sure there is anyway to see if the person was a CAP member.

I do not recall ever hearing about a CAP earning the Medal of Freedom.

On a side note/question to the last person to post. Is there a ribbon for this medal since it is a civilian award?

[Pylon]

On a side note/question to the last person to post. Is there a ribbon for this medal since it is a civilian award?

Yes, there are ribbons for these awards.  Even though they are classified as "Federal Civilian Awards," they can and are issued to those who also serve in the military.  The US Armed Forces allows those who earned these federal awards to wear the ribbons.

The Presidential Medal of Freedom is a navy blue ribbon, with white stripes on the edges, bearing a silver eagle device/attachment affixed to it.  See below for ribbon and medal:

[John Bryan]

Thanks .....that is a very cool medal and ribbon.

I was doing a little research and found a master list of people who have the award.

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/AlphabeticalList.htm

The Presidential Medal of Freedom is the highest civilian award in the United States.

It was established by President Harry Truman in 1945 to honor service during WWII. President John F. Kennedy revived the medal and began the tradition of awarding the medal annually, on or near July 4. The award is awarded to several people annually. Unlike many other US awards, the Presidential Medal of Freedom can be awarded to non-US citizens.

The Presidential Medal of Freedom recognizes individuals who have made "an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, or to world peace, or to cultural or other significant public or private endeavors." 

[AlphaSigOU]

There are three grades to the Presidential Medal of Freedom:

The badge of the Presidential Medal of Freedom is in the form of a golden star with white enamel, with a red enamel pentagon behind it; the central disc bears thirteen gold stars on a blue enamel background (taken from the crest of the U.S. coat-of-arms) within a golden ring. Golden American eagles with spread wings stand between the arms of the star. It is worn on a blue ribbon with white edge stripes around the neck.

A special grade of the medal, known as the Presidential Medal of Freedom with Distinction, has the abovementioned medal worn as a star on the left chest; in addition, the abovementioned ribbon is worn as a sash on the right shoulder, with its rosette (blue with white edge, bearing the central disc of the medal at its center) resting on the left hip.

Another special grade of the medal, known as the Presidential Medal of Freedom, with Military Distinction, has the abovementioned medal worn from the abovementioned ribbon differenced with a series of white stars upon the ribbon.

The medal may also be worn on the abovementioned ribbon on the left chest, with a silver American eagle with spreaded wings on the ribbon (or a golden eagle if a medal "With Distinction").

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Medal_of_Freedom

[Eclipse]

The regulations be [darn]ed - any member inside my authority who earns it could wear it.

Now, with that said, I'm not going to waste any time tonight writing a uniform supplement as its doubtful anyone I know will be worried about wearing it anytime soon.

In the CAP world, we have similair decorations for CAP service which I would wold be issued in its place.

Sharp ribbon, though.

[groundpounder]

The regulations be [darn]ed - any member inside my authority who earns it could wear it.

Interesting outlook - "regulations be [darn]ed" - are you the same Eclipse that posted this quote over at the CapBlog?

"Whether they are too conservative or not, the rules are the rules. You can't play the game unless you follow ALL of them"

It's always interesting to read posters that live and die by the regulations until a pesky one gets in the way........

[Eclipse]

Yes, I am the same one, and was fully aware of the hypocrisy as I wrote it.

You're right, though.  Rules are rules.

I guess we couldn't let someone where their Nobel either...

[AlphaSigOU]

Yes, I am the same one, and was fully aware of the hypocrisy as I wrote it.

You're right, though.  Rules are rules.

I guess we couldn't let someone where their Nobel either...

Besides, the Nobel Prize medal is not designed to have a suspension ribbon. It's just a nice gold medal in a nice velvet box. 

[groundpounder]

Yes, I am the same one, and was fully aware of the hypocrisy as I wrote it.

You're right, though.  Rules are rules.

I guess we couldn't let someone where their Nobel either...

Not saying that the wearing of the medal is wrong - just pointing out that sometimes the rules are dumb and we need to stand up and press the powers to revise dumb rules.

We have a lot of "rules are rules" folks out there that will stand on the tracks and let the train hit them because Simon did not say they could move out of the way. Sometimes you have to say "All due respect Sir but your rule is not the best path [stupid] and we need to spend a little time on changing things for the better."

[Eclipse]

Sounds about right.

Besides, the Nobel Prize medal is not designed to have a suspension ribbon. It's just a nice gold medal in a nice velvet box. 

Agreed - but I know a few members who, given the right amount of velcro & yarn would try and wear it somehow...

[Major Carrales]

I am bring this old topic up because I am interested in discussing this with the new membership.

I find it od that CAP would not allow Federal Civilian Awards be worn of CAP uniforms.  It seems like a good fit. 

Comments?

[Al Sayre]

I'm willing to bet $5 that if someone who had an award like the PMOF made a stink to National about not being able to wear it, a change letter to 39-1 would be rapidly dispatched, and photos would be taken and published with that person, in uniform wearing the medal and shaking the hand of the National Commander

[Major Carrales]

I'm willing to bet $5 that if someone who had an award like the PMOF made a stink to National about not being able to wear it, a change letter to 39-1 would be rapidly dispatched, and photos would be taken and published with that person, in uniform wearing the medal and shaking the hand of the National Commander

I think this is merely an oversight issue.  Look at the list of awarded ribbons/medals for US Customs, NASA, the CIA you name them.  It seems that these shoudl take precedence to CAP awards since they are federal service oriented.

Please, more comments...

[Pace]

I'm willing to bet $5 that if someone who had an award like the PMOF made a stink to National about not being able to wear it, a change letter to 39-1 would be rapidly dispatched, and photos would be taken and published with that person, in uniform wearing the medal and shaking the hand of the National Commander

I think this is merely an oversight issue.  Look at the list of awarded ribbons/medals for US Customs, NASA, the CIA you name them.  It seems that these shoudl take precedence to CAP awards since they are federal service oriented.

Please, more comments...

Just write TP up for one (whether he's eligible or not) and the regs will be fixed...

>>>Crawling under my rock before I piss off the powers that be.

[lordmonar]

Just to play devils advocate here....if we open it up to other federal agencies medals....what about state agencies too?  Do we risk starting down the slippery slope here?

[Major Carrales]

Just to play devils advocate here....if we open it up to other federal agencies medals....what about state agencies too?  Do we risk starting down the slippery slope here?

I don't think so.  Federal medals woudl likely be of the type that woudl be worn before CAP awards.  State would be worn below sense in a wierd way CAP is a sort of Federal thing.  Hummmm....?


That being said, I had not and have not thought this through...however, one would think that  a medal given by POTUS would merit being worn on CAP uniforms.

[Major_Chuck]

I want one....

Can I have one if I don't get the crap beat out of me playing Halo?

[DNall]

I'm willing to bet $5 that if someone who had an award like the PMOF made a stink to National about not being able to wear it, a change letter to 39-1 would be rapidly dispatched, and photos would be taken and published with that person, in uniform wearing the medal and shaking the hand of the

National Commander President, with his Congressman & the SECAF on the flanks & teh CAP/CC jumping up & down in the back trying to get in the pic. And a great day it would be for CAP/PR

Are you nuts? There's already a stick to ensure regs are clarified to clear up the question on wear of the Army civilian decorations given to the handful of Iowa personnel. I think if theis had ever happened before you'd know about it.

I did meet a non-CAP member locally that won it though. This was a long time ago, but cop was at a school when some guy came in shooting & he ushered kids out the hall under fire taking rounds in the back so no one else got hit, then the wierdo shot his self.

[Major_Chuck]

I found the list of names of people who had been awarded the medal rather interesting.  Some names are like a who's who of modern history.  Other names I questioned.

Nancy Reagan?  Come on now.  I can see Ronnie (loved him in his best role of President) being awarded the medal.  But Nancy?  I wonder if her astrologer told her about it before hand.

[DNall]

Guess that whole "just say no" campaign, DARE, & DDR none of that was important right?

[Major_Chuck]

Guess that whole "just say no" campaign, DARE, & DDR none of that was important right?

She was involved with DARE and DDR?  Don't ever recall hearing about it.

[lordmonar]

Guess that whole "just say no" campaign, DARE, & DDR none of that was important right?

She was involved with DARE and DDR?  Don't ever recall hearing about it.

Where were you in the 80's man!  She was no the TV every other night tell us teenagers "Just Say No!".

This was before DARE and about the same time DDR started IIRC.

[davedove]

I'm willing to bet $5 that if someone who had an award like the PMOF made a stink to National about not being able to wear it, a change letter to 39-1 would be rapidly dispatched, and photos would be taken and published with that person, in uniform wearing the medal and shaking the hand of the National Commander

I think this is merely an oversight issue.  Look at the list of awarded ribbons/medals for US Customs, NASA, the CIA you name them.  It seems that these shoudl take precedence to CAP awards since they are federal service oriented.

Please, more comments...

Typically, federal civilian decorations come after military decorations and military unit awards, then before military service awards.  These are all before CAP awards.

CAP follows the Air Force practice for wearing military decorations.  The Air Force allows the wear of federal civilian decorations, but only if THEY ARE AWARDED FOR MILITARY SERVICE.  This is an interesting restriction, as very few civilian awards are given for military service; if you're in the military, you usually get military awards.  The Medal of Freedom has been givien to some military folks for their service (for instance, Colin Powell).

[Major_Chuck]

Guess that whole "just say no" campaign, DARE, & DDR none of that was important right?

She was involved with DARE and DDR?  Don't ever recall hearing about it.

Where were you in the 80's man!  She was no the TV every other night tell us teenagers "Just Say No!".

This was before DARE and about the same time DDR started IIRC.

Oh I know all about the "Just Say No!" stuff!  I wasn't totally listening to a Flock of Seagulls back then.  Like Totally 80's... (I digress though)...

I just never heard her being involved in DDR or DARE programs back then.  While commendable I just don't see what she did as First Lady as warranting the Presidential Medal of Freedom where Jerry Lewis has helped raise millions of dollars for MD.

[DNall]

I'm pretty sure it's not a contest. How many people you think deserve a particular decoration over the people that get it? Decorations aren't completely for you, they're for the effect it has on others when they hear your story or see it being pinned on. So if the govt wanted to draw attention to the anti-drug campaign after it'd fissled for a while, then call in Nancy & strap a medal on her. That's the way it goes my friend.

The "Just Say No" thing was hers, DARE & DDR came out at the same time, but DARE was small for a long time. Really DDR was too until much more recently. Whole war on drugs, miami vice era.

[Dragoon]

Interestingly, the Army doesn't allow the wear of the Presidential Medal of freedom or its ribbon on the uniform, but they do allow those awarded it to wear a bit sash with a rosette at the hip with their mess dress.

[Major Carrales]

Major Carrales' 21st century method of ending the drug trade of marijuana.

1) Scientists develop a dominant strain of Marijuana where the effective agent in it is replaced with an inert one using genetic engineering.

2) Collect the pollen of these plants and crop dust North and South America and other likely places.  

3) In  five to ten years the problem of weed will be a thing of the past.

4) To prevent former pot heads from going up to something else.  Institute summary execution for dealers.

This is a very fascistic (maybe even Nazi, since it involve eugenics and brutality) method...but it would likely work

[davedove]

Major Carrales' 21st century method of ending the drug trade of marijuana.

1) Scientists develop a dominant strain of Marijuana where the effective agent in it is replaced with an inert one using genetic engineering.

2) Collect the pollen of these plants and crop dust North and South America and other likely places.  

3) In  five to ten years the problem of weed will be a thing of the past.

4) To prevent former pot heads from going up to something else.  Institute summary execution for dealers.

This is a very fascistic (maybe even Nazi, since it involve eugenics and brutality) method...but it would likely work

I read somewhere that it would actually be cheaper for the US to buy up the entire cocaine crop and destroy it than the expense incurred trying to keep it out of the country.

[Al Sayre]

Back in the '70's, for a class, I once calculated that if you took the estimated amount of smuggled into and grown in the U.S., taxed it at the same rate as cigarettes, and sold it in liquor or drug stores, you could pay off the Gross National Debt in 2 years...

[lordmonar]

It would be cheaper to stop trying to stop the trade and attack the demand side of the issue.

Dealers are not scared of a death sentence.  Buying up the supply will only make the illegal trade that much more lucrative...Supply and Demand.

For every demand you will always find a supplier.

The key is to cut off the demand.

In England they did a study of illegal drugs.

The premise of the study was that it was not the drug use itself that was bad but the related crime.  Users robbing 7-11's, prostitution etc...so they could get the money for their habit. In addition the crime related to the dealers over territory, supply and lots of cash hanging around.  And finally the dealers trying to increase their market share by getting more and younger people hooked.

What the government did was, found all the users in a particular area in London (IIRC).  Those that wanted to get off the drugs went to detox.  those that did not want off, were given perscriptions for their drug of choice, Heroine, Cocaine, Marijuana, what ever.

Because the users could buy the drugs at the pharmacists at medicinal rates (much cheaper than street rates by a factor of 10), the users could maintain their habit at a fraction of the costs. 

This resulted in them being less inclined to have to resort to crime to maintain their drug habit.  They could maintain their habit working regular jobs.

So we see our first reduction in crime right there.

Secondly, since the dealers no longer had any customers, they left the area to find more fertile grounds.  Taking their turf wars with them and removing the target of opprotunites for people after their cash and drug supply.

The cost of the program was minimal because the users were paying for it at government rates.

Another savings was that because the drugs from the pharmacy was the equivant of FDA approval and controlled, the number of accidental overdoses was greatly reduced making it safer for the users.

So...my thinking is.

If the government got into the drug trade and sold the drugs at cost plus a little extra to pay for drug demand reduction program.  We would cut the demand right out from under the illegal drug cartels.

This would eliminate a source of funds to terrorist organisations, overseas mafias, help reduced the drug related crimes all through out South America and Asia.

On the demand side of things.....you use users funds to pay for demand reduction programs and some very harsh punishments for crimes involving drugs (including alcohol).

The way to beat the drug lords is to use economics.  buy the supply cheaper than they can an sell it cheaper then they can.

[MIKE]

Man, did this one drift or what?

[AlphaSigOU]

Interestingly, the Army doesn't allow the wear of the Presidential Medal of freedom or its ribbon on the uniform, but they do allow those awarded it to wear a bit sash with a rosette at the hip with their mess dress.

That's because it's the 'With Military Distinction' degree of the PMoF.

[Major_Chuck]

To add to what Captain Harris just discussed (I know way off topic now), is to legalize marijuana.  Decriminalize the drug first for medicinal purposes.  There is a lot of debate in the medical community about this but I feel it has its advantages.

Medicinal Marijuana has been proven to aid in the comfort of those suffering from numerous dibilitating diseases including glaucoma and AIDS.  Cheaper alternatives to sky high 'legal' drugs will help to drive down the cost of prescription drugs.  Back to the supply and demand topic.

Do I advocate illegal drug use. Of course not.  Crack, heroin, meth, and so on are a far greater problem then marijuana.  Legalize marijuana and you cut down on the illegal smuggling of it.  We also reduce the number of people tossed in jail for possession. 

The next step.  Since Mary Jane would be legal you launch a campaign similiar to the stop smoking campaign and you educate people why they shouldn't smoke.

But then, this is way way way off topic.

[Major_Chuck]

Has any CAP member ever won the Presidential Medal of Freedom?

I hate that term "won" a medal.  Makes it sound like a competition.  People are awarded medals. 

[lordmonar]

Has any CAP member ever won the Presidential Medal of Freedom?

I hate that term "won" a medal.  Makes it sound like a competition.  People are awarded medals.

But "awarded" may mean that the person did not "earn" it either.

Semantic games are as bad as politics.