Are CAP IDs issued in a constant progression, or are they decommissioned as members leave/die and reissued to new people that come in?
Rolling - which is why you can (generally) tell how long a person has been in - our more seasoned members are in the 1#####'s and they are issuing 4##### today.
They are pretty good about giving you back your old number when you come back, even into the 80's as long as they can find you, or you can supply something with the old number.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 21, 2008, 07:29:13 PM
Rolling - which is why you can (generally) tell how long a person has been in - our more seasoned members are in the 1#####'s and they are issuing 4##### today.
They are pretty good about giving you back your old number when you come back, even into the 80's as long as they can find you, or you can supply something with the old number.
The CAPID numbers we currently use only date back to the late 90's. I was a member when they created them and replaced using your Social Security Number (often called CAPSN). At the switchover, everybody got a membership card with a new number on it. Don't know if they based it on longevity (i/e: longer members get lower numbers) or if it was random. Mine was/is in the 22XXXX series; I joined in Jan 1997.
A former cadet who was in CAP briefly (after CAPIDs became the standard) recently rejoined as a senior member (after about an 8 year lapse) and she got her old CAPID number back.
I have not been able to figure out how they assigned the new numbers to the then current members. It is at least partly based on longevity, but I think there is more to it than that. I can't figure out any geographical associations, either.
I first joined in '64 as a cadet, transitioned to SM in'70, had a break in service in the 80s, and rejoined in '87. My number is 106***. Who knows.
Quote from: Pylon on January 21, 2008, 10:11:27 PM
The CAPID numbers we currently use only date back to the late 90's. I was a member when they created them and replaced using your Social Security Number (often called CAPSN).
When I joined as a cadet children were not required to have a SSN as they are now. Those cadets that did not have a SSN were issued a generated number. I was one of those without a SSN. I joined in 1978 and my number was 781***. I don't know if the current numbers are continuing to roll from those issued numbers or not. I rejoined in 2005 and my current number is 395***. For some reason I had it in my head that the numbers issued back then were issued with the first two digits being the year you joined.
Quote from: Pylon on January 21, 2008, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 21, 2008, 07:29:13 PM
Rolling - which is why you can (generally) tell how long a person has been in - our more seasoned members are in the 1#####'s and they are issuing 4##### today.
They are pretty good about giving you back your old number when you come back, even into the 80's as long as they can find you, or you can supply something with the old number.
The CAPID numbers we currently use only date back to the late 90's. I was a member when they created them and replaced using your Social Security Number (often called CAPSN). At the switchover, everybody got a membership card with a new number on it. Don't know if they based it on longevity (i/e: longer members get lower numbers) or if it was random. Mine was/is in the 22XXXX series; I joined in Jan 1997.
A former cadet who was in CAP briefly (after CAPIDs became the standard) recently rejoined as a senior member (after about an 8 year lapse) and she got her old CAPID number back.
Early 2000s actually. When we went from the brown CAPID cards to the current day blue ones, that's when they changed. I joined in Jan of 2000, and my first ID card had my social on it. I believe the first year I renewed, that's when I got the blue one with the new number on it.
I'm a 29xxxx
My first number was C-22-101xx, issued on a wing level basis. C = cadet, and 22 = NJWG. When I became an SM, I got 519xxx. My SSAN was my CAPSN when I rejoined, and now we have the CAPIDs. The CAPSN is still a primary internal tracking number, and is used on paperwork outside CAP, particularly with USAF.
When I joined in 85 my SSAN was my my CAPID.
Quote from: lordmonar on January 22, 2008, 12:45:25 AM
When I joined in 85 my SSAN was my my CAPID.
It was called a CAPSN back then. The term CAPID didn't enter usage until 2001. The membership cards didn't identify the number, but the MMLs and STRs of that time had columns labeled CAPSN, as did ES 101 cards, and the CAPF 119.
If I had the energy, I would call NHQ and ask Ms. Parker about the process. However, since I'm on CAP-TALK, I'll just make a wild guess ;D and say it's rolling.
When we switched from SS#s to CAPID's in 2001, the numbers were randomly generated. I did a quick search of the members and found no rhyme or reason. after 2002, numbers do seem to match join date. Members who leave seem to have their numbers stay with them, as I can't find any new member with a "low" number.
BTW, in the 60's, Senior members had a choice of using a CAP specific ID or SS#. Cadets had a CAP specific number until 1970. First a "000" was prefixed to the 6 digit ID. Later, the number was changed to the SS#; as it stayed until 2001.
Based simply off of the things I'm seeing here they must be based on longevity.
Pylon was 22**** I am 26**** and joined almost a year later
I joined in 91 and am a 16****.
I got out for several years and kept the same number when I rejoined in 03.
Quote from: IceNine on January 22, 2008, 03:10:44 AM
Based simply off of the things I'm seeing here they must be based on longevity.
Pylon was 22**** I am 26**** and joined almost a year later
They are certainly so after the initial assignments. The questions I have are about the initial assignment sequence. From my observations about CAWG members, there is some basis for the longevity method, but there are holes in that theory. I see folks with numbers lower than mine who are much younger, and with a joned date after mine.
I just looked in eServices, and the numbers around mine, with one exception are assigned to strangers. The exception, the number after mine, was assigned to a member of my first unit in NJ, and he's been out of CAP for some time now.
Joined in July 1993 and my number is 126***
I'm interested to see just how far back you have to go to get a 000*** number, I joined in Nov '97 and have a 238***. The lowest I have seen is a 100*** and that person joined in '90. I think the lower you get the numbers will have a greater spread in year, I believe when the switch was made only current members were given a CAP ID.
I believe the numbers start at 100000, otherwise (at least while searching) the number will come out as 5 digits or less
I joined CAP, for the first time around, in July of 1997 and my ID is a 230***.
weird...you people all got numbers with stars - mine is all numbers ;) >:D
Okay, fair enough. I figured it would be rolling incase someone came back. I do know for a fact that join date has effect on your number. Mine is 36**89 and my friend who sent his paperwork in alongside mine was 36**88.
I was just thinking, is there any good reason to keep our ID #'s hidden? I know we are all used to it with privacy being what it is today, but I don't think someone could steal an identity with a CAPID#.
I put the stars in there out of habit, but I guess it really doesn't matter. Does it?
[edited for non-sense gibberish that is appearing from lack of sleep]
I joined in 2000 and my number is 30****. I believe the 400000's started around 2005; the latest numbers appear to be now around 436***. In our wing the lowest number we have is something like 107*** and that member hasn't been in as long as many others who have higher numbers; mostly in the 14**** series.
339247......Oh Crap I mean 33**27
Quote from: edmo1 on January 22, 2008, 05:26:00 AM
I was just thinking, is there any good reason to keep our ID #'s hidden? I know we are all used to it with privacy being what it is today, but I don't think someone could steal an identity with a CAPID#.
I put the stars in there out of habit, but I guess it really doesn't matter. Does it?
[edited for non-sense gibberish that is appearing from lack of sleep]
It started innocently enough: I applied for Region Staff College over the internet, next think you know, someone was wearing MY ribbons. . . . .
I think that CAP always had a seperate tracking number, Possible MS Access file number, for all members seperate from the SSN. When they decided to get away from the SSN,(I wish the RM would go back to Serial numbers) they just used that internal number.
BTW mine is 101***,
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on January 22, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
339247......Oh Crap I mean 33**27
HA! Now I'm going to use it to empty your bank accounts ;)
It appears that the current numbers start at 100000, as suggested above. Also, as stated above, the numbers are certainly chronological past the initial assignments at the changeover in 2001.
Cecil DP, where and when did you join CAP? Any breaks in service?
Quote from: JC004 on January 22, 2008, 06:43:16 AM
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on January 22, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
339247......Oh Crap I mean 33**27
HA! Now I'm going to use it to empty your bank accounts ;)
Good luck......Vanguard just
stole took the last of it
CAPSN# 134047 (uncensored!)
March 1989 as a Cadet
October 1992 as an Officer
I once was able to have National get my join-date corrected, but since the MIMS turned on, it went back to not acknowledging my cadet career. Actually, I think it says I joined in '92, but completed CPP and earned Mitchell in '91... heh, computers!
-Ace
Quote from: SarDragon on January 22, 2008, 07:34:11 AM
It appears that the current numbers start at 100000, as suggested above. Also, as stated above, the numbers are certainly chronological past the initial assignments at the changeover in 2001.
Cecil DP, where and when did you join CAP? Any breaks in service?
Cadet 1965-68, Boston Composite Squadron
Break for USMC
Rejoined as a Senior 1971-Present MAWG, MDWG, FLWG
Joined as a cadet in 1982 and my CAP ID number was 89****, then it morphed into the SSN format 000-89-****. A couple years later the SSN became pretty much required and I became 531-**-****.
When they dumped SSN's, I can only assume that they took all the current members and issued numbers in alphabetical order, starting at 100000. My new number was 14**** and the number of another SM in my squadron (who joined years after I did but his name starts with 'B') is 11****.
My original CAP ID was by State # first. 52-2817, guess thats a little age telling ;D
Quote from: chief2 on January 22, 2008, 07:12:20 PM
My original CAP ID was by State # first. 52-2817, guess thats a little age telling ;D
So you were from Indiana Wing, right?
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/IN/inwg1a.jpg)
The top paragraph of this document touches on the real old-school member numbers...
"Boy, do we have your number!"
by Colonel Leonard A Blascovich, CAP National Historian
- The where and why of Unit & Charter Numbers.
Historical Notes, No. 16
July 1996
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/Numbers.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/Numbers.pdf)
-Ace
Right on being from the Indiana Wing, I still have one of those patches also.
Mine is 132792, came in Feb 94, was here when they went to that from SSN. I don't actually know, but I want to say it was alphabetical for the original issue, just based on anecdotal observation. Not that it matters or I care much.
I do wish the RM would get away from SSNs. It is easy to track/remember, but obviously a risk & hassle to shred so much stuff. And, I really think it's a bad thing to have printed in the clear on CACs.
I am 251XXX.....I joined in 1986.....doesn't sound like there is any rhyme or reason to it.
Quote from: baronet68 on January 22, 2008, 06:53:16 PM
Joined as a cadet in 1982 and my CAP ID number was 89****, then it morphed into the SSN format 000-89-****. A couple years later the SSN became pretty much required and I became 531-**-****.
When they dumped SSN's, I can only assume that they took all the current members and issued numbers in alphabetical order, starting at 100000. My new number was 14**** and the number of another SM in my squadron (who joined years after I did but his name starts with 'B') is 11****.
Well, I think the alpha scheme is out, because the person with the next number in sequence after mine starts with an "S". There are other folks with numbers close to mine that are also nowhere close to "B".
But there's a real scheme there, somewhere.
Maybe it was numbered out by SSN's...
That seems rather likely since all they would have to do is sort out the ID's they were using and replace them with the new ones.
That one doesn't flush either. I have olde listings of my last two units, and there's no correlation there, either.
I'm just waiting for them to draw the 7th number to see if I won the CAP Lotto!
"And your PowerBall number is....."
-Ace
if you are SET qualified your ID number can be used to verify skill sign off for es specialty
I believe the answer is that the new ID numbers were issued alphabetically by rank and region at the time of conversion. I never did change to SSN and went from my old CAPID, 10040961, to 106***. I was a LtCol at that time, in CA wing.
Quote from: fireplug on January 25, 2008, 11:24:25 PM
I believe the answer is that the new ID numbers were issued alphabetically by rank and region at the time of conversion. I never did change to SSN and went from my old CAPID, 10040961, to 106***. I was a LtCol at that time, in CA wing.
OK, what's your fourth digit? My number is 1069**, and I was a Capt in CAWG at the time. I still can't buy that one though, because the guy just after me was in NJ at the time, and his last name starts with 'S'.
Also, 100101 is a Major, and ranks between your LtCol and my Capt at the time. I have an olde CAWG list, and the rank sequence is all out of order.
[edit]
Just found a new resource, and the SSN order might be the method. There are a few discrepancies, but there's a pretty good sequential correlation.
I've never gotten too exercised over the whole CAP ID vs CAC-type ID but here is some food for thought regarding a more appropriate type of ID. This is an email from our local wing administrator regarding access to a certain reserve base;
All,
Please be aware that a new policy is in effect for members of CAP to enter the base. If you plan to come to the headquarters to visit, drop off paperwork, or go to the clothing sales store, you must notify me at least 48 hours before your intended visit. Once I have been notified, I will make a list to send through the State Director's office to the Base Security. Upon entry to the base, you must show your CAP membership card and driver's license and the list will be checked to verify you are on it.
We must follow this procedure from now on or until the base tells us different. Please be as cooperative as possible when you come to the base for any reason. We do not want to jeopardize our being on the base. If for some reason, you can not come on base, pull into the visitor's parking lot and call the headquarters, if during duty hours, and I will see what I can do to help you.
It is best to call me at least 48 hours in advance so that we can follow the procedures Base Security has outlined for us.
The new rule is that no one comes on base unless they have a military ID card.
Thank you for following the procedures outlined above.
It was less hassle getting on base in the aftermath of 9/11.
^ Thats crap. I wonder if your Wing Administrator gets a military ID card, or a base ID card to get on everday.
May I ask, what base this is?
Quote from: aveighter on February 12, 2008, 10:54:53 PM
Please be aware that a new policy is in effect for members of CAP to enter the base...
My guard unit is on a JRB, there is a CAP unit there (not mine), and that is roughly the policy. You must have CAC & DoD sticker 100% of the time. They'll make you pull for a sticker or go get a new ID made even if it's 10mins before formation. However, they let CAP on with CAPID & DL. They also issue a special DOD-style sticker for CAP members. Really no issues at all.
Far as CAP IDs. I think we need to stand fast for a couple years. FEMA is working their new credenialing system. Those cards are going to be agency versions of a smart card w/ FEMA certificates on it. That's what CAP is going to need to go to eventually. I'd also like if it could be loaded with CAC certificates for computer & DKO (as that comes online) access. I really don't like that the Army has a volunteer category on AKO that get .mil emails & CAP doesn't under the AF. As that goes to a centralized DoD system, I hope it'll translate.
Real "burnouts" get on with thier dependant card, but uniformed CAP officers with an FBI check behind them are hassled.
I don't have any recomendation to this, as I'm not familar with DoD protocal. However, CAP could get with a more approriate photo IDs (for everyone) than the library card. With today's technology, I mean come on.
-Ace
I seem to recall that when we went back to internally generated CAP ID #s vice SSN, the initial "fill" of CAP members were done, I think, based on "date joined" more or less.
My 123XXX corresponds roughly with my "Date last joined" of Jun 1988.
I think they may have done it perhaps "by year joined, alphabetically within that year" or something equally esoteric.
Remember, this is the crew that couldn't figure out a way to map a charter number of "20XXX" to "Unit XXX of Michigan Wing, part of GLR" in a relational, hierarchical database and forced everybody to go to the GLR-MI-XXX schema, so be careful looking for rhyme or reason here.
Grrrrr...
There is no reason a CAP Senior Member should not be issued at CAC card which reads "VOLUNTEER", "No Commissary, limited exchange". How hard would that be?
The pothead flipping freaking burgers at the AAFES PX gets a CAC to get on Post, but a person who will do more for their community then that stoner will ever do can't get one. Something is wrong with this picture!
I trust a CAPPER more than some of these people I see walking around post cutting grass and sweeping floors. I sure as hell trust them more than some of the contractors I have worked with while in Iraq/Afghanistan.
What? You don't trust the pizza delivery guy at Ft. Dix?
aveighter, which base is causing the problem?
Quote from: afgeo4 on February 13, 2008, 05:05:52 AM
What? You don't trust the pizza delivery guy at Ft. Dix?
Where was I at.. Fort Bragg, maybe? I kept looking at the pizza guy thinking "If they're going for the immersive training environment, Bedouin Bob driving the Escort and delivering pizzas is just about to fit the bill..."
After some research in the CAP-USAF directory, the three wings that are headquartered on an Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard Base are: Indiana, Michigan and Georgia.
So that sucks if you have to go to the Wing HQ and you live in one of those Wings, and it is the Wing where your local base Commander no longer trusts CAP members. It sounds to me like someone jacked up and pissed the base command off.
INWG HQ is not located on the ARB. It is located on the old base outside the new perimeter which is much smaller that the AFB. Getting to HQ is easy and public. I've never had an issue getting on base to go the the Marine Reserve building for CAP activities.
Law Enforcement knew there was an issue with base security back in 1980. I went through a DEA Survival school then. They talked about the easiest way for a terrorist to get on base was as a taxi driver or pizza delivery.
I sure hope they have tightened security in that respect by now.
Quote from: NIN on February 13, 2008, 03:03:07 PM
Where was I at.. Fort Bragg, maybe? I kept looking at the pizza guy thinking "If they're going for the immersive training environment, Bedouin Bob driving the Escort and delivering pizzas is just about to fit the bill..."
Remember the pizza/delivery guys that walked from barracks to barracks with the subs and such?
I am in Georgia and the following came to us in an e-mail yesterday. It does seem bothersome and cumbersome. I think it will cause some problems with cadets and their parents trying to get to the clothing sales store on base. We asked the Administrator if she could give the base a list with all of the Georgia members on it and she said they wouldn't let her. It will also create a problem for those of us that have an Officer's Club card and pay dues. Perhaps it will be easier to drive in on the Navy side of the base?? Also regarding the serial number thing. I last joined in 1977 and my number is 125***, so go figure..
"All,
Please be aware that a new policy is in effect for members of CAP to enter the base. If you plan to come to the headquarters to visit, drop off paperwork, or go to the clothing sales store, you must notify me at least 48 hours before your intended visit. Once I have been notified, I will make a list to send through the State Director's office to the Base Security. Upon entry to the base, you must show your CAP membership card and driver's license and the list will be checked to verify you are on it.
We must follow this procedure from now on or until the base tells us different. Please be as cooperative as possible when you come to the base for any reason. We do not want to jeopardize our being on the base. If for some reason, you can not come on base, pull into the visitor's parking lot and call the headquarters, if during duty hours, and I will see what I can do to help you.
It is best to call me at least 48 hours in advance so that we can follow the procedures Base Security has outlined for us.
The new rule is that no one comes on base unless they have a military ID card.
Thank you for following the procedures outlined above."
That is all:
Still remember my serial number from 1968: 682 - - -
my CAPID is 417081 I don't see how this correlates to my join date, there is a cadet I knew before I joined CAP she has a 41706* and her dad has a similar number as well. His daughter and I joined in October of 2006, he joined in Dec 2006 so it sure seems like on a rolling whoever gets their apps in first regardless of wing/region
Quote from: mikeylikey on February 13, 2008, 04:34:13 PM
After some research in the CAP-USAF directory, the three wings that are headquartered on an Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard Base are: Indiana, Michigan and Georgia.
So that sucks if you have to go to the Wing HQ and you live in one of those Wings, and it is the Wing where your local base Commander no longer trusts CAP members. It sounds to me like someone jacked up and pissed the base command off.
NE Region HQ are located on McGuire AFB, NJ.
Seems to me that it would be worthwhile looking for a new place for Wing hq if they are going to make it that difficult for CAP members to get on base.
Quote from: RiverAux on February 14, 2008, 01:40:28 AM
Seems to me that it would be worthwhile looking for a new place for Wing hq if they are going to make it that difficult for CAP members to get on base.
What about squadrons that are on base and/or Air Guard bases?
If they were facing that level of hassle, I would advise them to start putting some energy into finding a new home as well. Any advantage of getting free space would be more than negated by the huge drag on recruiting that such administrative hassles would be. I would quit rather than go through that before every meeting.
Quote from: RiverAux on February 14, 2008, 03:10:56 AM
If they were facing that level of hassle, I would advise them to start putting some energy into finding a new home as well. Any advantage of getting free space would be more than negated by the huge drag on recruiting that such administrative hassles would be. I would quit rather than go through that before every meeting.
You'd think the bases would be supportive of affiliated organizations especially if they wear their uniforms. I guess its the saying "what you pay for is what you get" OTOH even IF the squadron/wing/region HQ actually paid rent, the policy would be no different.
I agree I would so forget about trying to get on base if it were that much more effort. And then on top of that visitors, well they'd have to get on the list and they don't have a CAPID how do you explain to the guard that you are visiting?
And thats how it is under somewhat normal circumstances. If the security threats were ratcheted up, I am confident that all CAP access to the base would be denied (thats how it has worked before in other places).
More likely than not, some CAP A-Hole mouthed off to some punk Security Forces Kid and that guy went and [censored]ed about all CAP members, and then the head of the Security Forces went and cried to the Base Commander, who in turn to shut up the [censored]ing SF OFFICER, said "OK I will change CAP access".
^ I have seen that in the past.
On the other hand the Base Commander may be an anal retentive, or fearful, or a number of other things.
What gets me is the Wing Administrator seems to have no problem getting on Base? Could it be the Wing Commander decided that he did not want other CAP members on "his" base?
The whole thing seems silly.
Quote from: mikeylikey on February 14, 2008, 03:35:49 AM
More likely than not, some CAP A-Hole mouthed off to some punk Security Forces Kid and that guy went and [censored]ed about all CAP members, and then the head of the Security Forces went and cried to the Base Commander, who in turn to shut up the [censored]ing SF OFFICER, said "OK I will change CAP access".
^ I have seen that in the past.
On the other hand the Base Commander may be an anal retentive, or fearful, or a number of other things.
What gets me is the Wing Administrator seems to have no problem getting on Base? Could it be the Wing Commander decided that he did not want other CAP members on "his" base?
The whole thing seems silly.
So does this apply to ALL bases CAP have facilities on now or is it just select bases? It seems to me that the base commander can establish policies on a whim for their base even if it is a stupid one and no other base are doing it but I suppose that is well within their right as each CAP squadron can make its own policies as long as it doesn't conflict with all the trickling flow of policies starting at NHQ and ending at Wing.
Someone here said something about senior members have to go through an FBI screening, this AFAIK has nothing to do with criminal record screening; It had to do with the CPP factor and if you had any offenses that pertain to child protection you of course would not be given CAP membership however I know that the FBI CAN screen (and do) for other criminal histories as well.
I can remember (pre 9/11) arriving at the Alemeda NAS to meet my cousin who was docked there, we arrived at the gate they gave us directions/where to park and find the ship and they didn't even give us a visitor pass (years before that, we went to McChord AFB to drop someone off we had to have a pass to get in). And it was just amzing they just what you were there for and they told you how to get there and you went on your way lol...
I don't think Alemeda NAS is even open anymore, but if it were I don't think they'd think twice about that anymore.
^ Until 9/11 All (and I mean all) Army Posts were "Open Posts" meaning anyone can just drive on. Air Force Bases and stations even before 9/11 were always controlled access. The only place I know of today that is still an open post is Quantico. The Marine Sentry will just wave you through if you have a DOD sticker on your windshield, and hand civilians coming on post a placard to place in the windshield. He doesn't even check for military or civilian ID. Strange?!?!
Quote from: mikeylikey on February 14, 2008, 04:01:50 AM
^ Until 9/11 All (and I mean all) Army Posts were "Open Posts" meaning anyone can just drive on. Air Force Bases and stations even before 9/11 were always controlled access. The only place I know of today that is still an open post is Quantico. The Marine Sentry will just wave you through if you have a DOD sticker on your windshield, and hand civilians coming on post a placard to place in the windshield. He doesn't even check for military or civilian ID. Strange?!?!
No Ft. Campbell, KY has always had, what I would call a "closed post". Pre 9/11 you still had to enter through a specific gate and go to the visitors building and sign in and get a pass that was displayed on your dash.
Quote from: brasda91 on February 14, 2008, 04:08:33 AM
No Ft. Campbell, KY has always had, what I would call a "closed post". Pre 9/11 you still had to enter through a specific gate and go to the visitors building and sign in and get a pass that was displayed on your dash.
Security was always pretty light until the det from Bragg moved in.
A lot of Army posts are still pretty open. I mean if one person has an ID they don't even check the others in the car. How secure is that? Yet, my guard/reserve base it's 100% ID of everyone in the car, and the car needs a pass or sticker which requires current insurance/registration/inspection or no access at all. Some places just take things more seriously than others.
Current policy at the local air base where we have two CAP squadrons based is that the CAP ID is all that is required at the gate. The USAF has also discontinued the use of base decals since they are doing 100% ID checks.
Quote from: Short Field on February 14, 2008, 10:50:00 PM
Current policy at the local air base where we have two CAP squadrons based is that the CAP ID is all that is required at the gate. The USAF has also discontinued the use of base decals since they are doing 100% ID checks.
well Decals should never be used in place of ID checks, but Decals should signify that your vehicle is registered with the base and they have information about it. The drawback is anyone can drive your vehicle with that decal (before IDs were required at some) you could just get on base that way which is why now the ID check is required.
I know that when I go to Kingsley ANG in Klamath Falls they require all senior members/officers to have their DL (Driver's License) on the list of adults traveling to the base with cadets or POV 72hrs before the date of arrival. Then your ID is checked at the gate with that DL # you gave your porject officer and so on.
In the Air Force, the base commander has the overall responsibility for securing the base. The SF squadron/flight is simply his/her tool to get that accomplished. Thus, every base commander has some leeway in what measures he/she can take to achieve security. However, there are AFMANs that allow CAP members to shop the MCSS and I don't believe those can be superceded by anyone on a Wing/Base level. That doesn't mean you have to fight for it, but carrying a copy of the appropriate document to show to the SF troop at the gate wouldn't hurt.
Base decals are no longer issued at many USAF installations. Parking is ample. Uninsured or unregistered vehicle owners will be fined (as usual). Random checks are done (as usual). 100% (FPCON A+) ID check or higher is in place. If you want better access to the base, speak with the SF CC or installation commander to see if they're willing to make arrangements like special passes or lists.
Quote from: afgeo4 on February 25, 2008, 03:46:28 PM
...Thus, every base commander has some leeway in what measures he/she can take to achieve security. However, there are AFMANs that allow CAP members to shop the MCSS and I don't believe those can be superceded by anyone on a Wing/Base level. ...
That doesn't say all MCSS facilities all the time. It says you can make purchases at the facility, nothing about accessing the area the facility is in. If you can go thru someone to get your name on a list two days before you show up to access the base, or if you can access MCSS somewhere else in the country or order over the phone, then that's access, it may not be the kind of access you wanted, but it's access.
Quote from: DNall on February 25, 2008, 08:12:59 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on February 25, 2008, 03:46:28 PM
...Thus, every base commander has some leeway in what measures he/she can take to achieve security. However, there are AFMANs that allow CAP members to shop the MCSS and I don't believe those can be superceded by anyone on a Wing/Base level. ...
That doesn't say all MCSS facilities all the time. It says you can make purchases at the facility, nothing about accessing the area the facility is in. If you can go thru someone to get your name on a list two days before you show up to access the base, or if you can access MCSS somewhere else in the country or order over the phone, then that's access, it may not be the kind of access you wanted, but it's access.
The AFMAN allows CAP members to shop at ALL AAFES MCSS stores without exclusion and does not specify the method. However, neither we nor anyone else may shop at MCSS stores over the phone. MCSS purchases may only be done by those who are authorized and such authorization cannot be authenticated by phone, so AAFES does not or rather should not make phone sales outside of their AAFES.COM office. Technically, the authorization doesn't state that we have a limited access to MCSS stores, so technically we cannot be denied access at any store. Being denied access to a base where the store is located is the same thing.
Hey, they can tell me that I'm only allowed to visit MCSS and go straight back out, but they can't tell me I'm not allowed to go to the MCSS. Will I raise the stink with an SP/MP? Nope. Could I? Probably.
The regs granting your the privilege of MCSS purchase authority do NOT grant you unrestricted on demand access to mil facilities, and you very well know that. If threat conditions can restrict access by retirees & various classes of civilian employees, then they can certainly keep you out. Attempting to cite that reg as authority to gain access is a good way to have that privilege revoked for everyone.
They told you the method to get permission to come on their restricted post for your legitimate purposes. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary, and that's not helpful to CAP, but that's the world we live in.
Quote from: DNall on February 26, 2008, 02:16:33 AM
The regs granting your the privilege of MCSS purchase authority do NOT grant you unrestricted on demand access to mil facilities, and you very well know that. If threat conditions can restrict access by retirees & various classes of civilian employees, then they can certainly keep you out. Attempting to cite that reg as authority to gain access is a good way to have that privilege revoked for everyone.
They told you the method to get permission to come on their restricted post for your legitimate purposes. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary, and that's not helpful to CAP, but that's the world we live in.
The right to shop with no right to get near the store reminds me of my childhood in the USSR where everyone had the right to vote, but were told who to vote for.
I understand that the military isn't a democracy, but some sanity has to prevail. I think the point is to find a way to work things out to both agencies' advantage.
Quote from: afgeo4 on February 29, 2008, 07:22:23 AM
The right to shop with no right to get near the store reminds me of my childhood in the USSR where everyone had the right to vote, but were told who to vote for.
I understand that the military isn't a democracy, but some sanity has to prevail. I think the point is to find a way to work things out to both agencies' advantage.
Sure, and sanity does prevail... both things are true, but security takes priority over you shopping at MCSS, and it's completely up to the base CC, so you lose out. That's too bad, but frankly i don't want any crazy exception for CAP members. I'd hate to turn on the news & find some criminal exploited such a system to gain access & do bad things.
I think CAP certainly does deserve more ease of access, and I think our background checks are a good basis for that. However, that can only really happen with a secure ID. As in a CAC, but doesn't have to look just like a CAC. Like make it blue or something, there's been a few designs around. You can't just sub a $4 card from HQ though, that's not nearly good enough. You need something that works with the DoD system, but is distinctively not AF.
I know that members are joining like crazy. When I joined 3 1/2 yrs ago, I got 391*** but now they are in 420*** it is actualy very cool to see what progress we are making.
All I know is that CAP is the best thing that ever happened to me. Other than God.
That's called attrition, otherwise we'd have 80k+ members right now.
Quote from: DNall on March 01, 2008, 12:14:01 AM
Quote from: afgeo4 on February 29, 2008, 07:22:23 AM
The right to shop with no right to get near the store reminds me of my childhood in the USSR where everyone had the right to vote, but were told who to vote for.
I understand that the military isn't a democracy, but some sanity has to prevail. I think the point is to find a way to work things out to both agencies' advantage.
Sure, and sanity does prevail... both things are true, but security takes priority over you shopping at MCSS, and it's completely up to the base CC, so you lose out. That's too bad, but frankly i don't want any crazy exception for CAP members. I'd hate to turn on the news & find some criminal exploited such a system to gain access & do bad things.
I think CAP certainly does deserve more ease of access, and I think our background checks are a good basis for that. However, that can only really happen with a secure ID. As in a CAC, but doesn't have to look just like a CAC. Like make it blue or something, there's been a few designs around. You can't just sub a $4 card from HQ though, that's not nearly good enough. You need something that works with the DoD system, but is distinctively not AF.
I think that in the end, it all comes down to the fact that CAP members should be entered into DEERS. It would alleviate ID issues allowing for CAC. It would solve the base decal issue. Also would grant us use of AAFES.com allowing AAFES to make more money through our 50,000+. Add to that our ability to access AFIADL smoother. One change in policy and procedure could potentially save lots of money for the USAF, lots of money for CAP members, and make members' lives easier which would improve retention and thereby benefit USAF again.
^that is the single best suggestion I have heard in a long time.
Should have emailed it to your WG/CC during New Business...
Not a CAP decision, DEERS equals access to benefits for mil members & their families. CAP is not supposed to get those, which is a problem for some of our purposes.
Funny, I've had the opposite experience - the only issue I've ever had getting on base to go to MCSS was the requirement to get a daily vehicle pass - which added between 10-30 minutes to the trip. Just went by the other day, had all my paperwork ready, and just before I entered the VRF I saw a sign on the door saying that vehicle passes were no longer required. Went to the gate, presented my ID, and on I went. Bliss. Now if only they had more BDUs...
When I was doing some (non-CAP) work for an extended period of time at a base in another State, I had to go through the daily ritual of getting a personal pass and a vehicle pass. One day the gent behind the desk at the VRF saw my CAP ID in my wallet as I was getting my driver's license and ask me why I didn't just give him the CAP ID. I told him that I wasn't there on CAP business, and he just looked at me. And looked at me. Then he asked me what date I'd be heading home. I told him. He immediately made me a vehicle pass for the entire duration of my stay and told me to present my CAP ID at the gate. When I gently suggested that I might be a wee bit uncomfortable with that, he made me a personal pass for the same time frame. His attitude, however, was that as a CAP member, I was wasting his time every day doing the paperwork.
Could he have gotten called on the carpet for it? Possibly. Probably? All I know is that HE sure seemed to think that CAP business or no, I was welcome there.
Incidentally, the funny aspect of the whole base access thing is that even as a temporary civilian contractor with no CAC card or other ID, I could eat at the Burger King and dining halls, bowl at the Bowling Alley, and shop at the BX (had to get some CD-Rs one day), but I would not be able to do so as a CAP member in uniform. And yes, I was asked at the BX for my ID and I said that I had none, that I was a contractor doing work on base. She thanked me and rang me up.
Dif bases have dif standards, all controlled by base commanders based on their risk mgmt decisions that have everything to do with the units & activities on the base as well as the community & world events. They have to protect their facility, everything else is secondary. There are still plenty of bases that are basically wide open, some in the mid-range, like the one just described that seems more like what it used to be like before 9/11, and then there are some bases where it's quite a bit more restrictive. Sometimes it makes sense & sometimes it doesn't.
Where I work, it's 100% ID & we still use DoD stickers. If you get thru that gate, you can basically drive right onto the flight line where you'll find several billion dollars worth of govt aircraft. There is a CAP unit (not mine) inside that perimeter. They get special DoD-style CAP-specific stickers, which with an ID & DL will get them on. Few issues there. Some places are more strict with seemingly less reason to be.
Quote from: DNall on March 03, 2008, 05:41:44 PM
Not a CAP decision, DEERS equals access to benefits for mil members & their families. CAP is not supposed to get those, which is a problem for some of our purposes.
DEERS is a system that tracks access and benefits. One can be in DEERS and have no access to anything. Just like reservists and guardsmen who aren't on duty have an entry in DEERS, a CAC and along with the CAC, BX/PX priviledges. They do not have full-time Commissary or TRICARE privileges simply because they're in DEERS.
That's basically what we're asking for too. Put us into DEERS, issue a CAP specific CAC ID and allow us basic BX/PX privileges. Who's going to get hurt? AAFES runs their shops through profit sales of merchandise. If more people shop, AAFES will be able to provide better services to our troops.
Topic related, apparently they keep up with them all the way back to when they were started. I was a cadet in 1990 - 1991 and came back last year. I was given my old number, 162XXX although my Mitchell shows up in eservices with no number. My encampment and an orientation flight are also there, but with no locations.
Quote from: afgeo4 on March 05, 2008, 05:02:34 AM
DEERS is a system that tracks access and benefits. One can be in DEERS and have no access to anything. Just like reservists and guardsmen who aren't on duty have an entry in DEERS, a CAC and along with the CAC, BX/PX privileges. They do not have full-time Commissary or TRICARE privileges simply because they're in DEERS.
That's basically what we're asking for too. Put us into DEERS, issue a CAP specific CAC ID and allow us basic BX/PX privileges. Who's going to get hurt? AAFES runs their shops through profit sales of merchandise. If more people shop, AAFES will be able to provide better services to our troops.
Ummm I do believe reservists and Guardsman began receiving fulltime Commissary benefits about 5 years ago. When I was in ROTC and drilling with a Army National Guard unit, I got that pink commissary access card that gave me (If I remember correctly) 24 total visits per year, but only 12 blocks to write the date of each visit. So each block was split in half, and shared 2 dates.
Oh....everywhere I have been, the DEERS system in found in the RAPIDS Office, and the only reason to visit is to get the CAC. IF military, then benefits are automatically loaded on the card. It is totally different from the pre-CAC issued cards, where specific entitlements could be written on the card itself. Back when I did ROTC summer camp, we were issued green Geneva Convention cards that specifically stated "NO Commissary".
Speaking to the clerk at the RAPIDS office, they can easily write "No Commissary, no PX, MCSS allowed" on the CAC when created. There is a 4 line space on the front of the card that can allow for special typing and instructions.
The whole thing is silly. Especially for those that are now doing the VSAF program. I would be pissed if I had to wait for 30 minutes at Pass and ID each time I was to volunteer for VSAF duty, because my library card from CAP NHQ is not acceptable.
There was a push to get a new version of CAC, and each Federal Agency would be involved in it. If this eventually pans out, NHQ better get off its ass and make sure the membership also gets a piece of it.
Quote from: afgeo4 on March 05, 2008, 05:02:34 AM
They do not have full-time Commissary or TRICARE privileges simply because they're in DEERS.
*pulls out his dependent ID card...*My wife is a traditional guardsman now and I have commissary privileges. The "Authorized Patronage" section on the card says, "EXCHANGE, MWR, COMMISSARY" I don't use any of the benefits (except MCSS) because I live in a state with no taxes anyway so there isn't any benefit.
As for the medical you are correct, we get TRICARE "With Active Duty Orders for Over 30 Days." So if she is deployed, goes to tech school, SNCO Academy, etc medical benefits would pick up.
^ If you have a Commissary close by, it is well worth it to shop there. Even though there are no taxes, stuff like meat is far Superior to your local piggly wiggly, and all stores usually have a case lot sale at least once per month where their prices are so much lower than Sam's Club or Costco. You see at the Commissary you get products for cost + a minimal markup to pay employees. If you find prices for any item cheaper at a grocery store, you take the item to the Commissary Manager, and he or she has discression to either give it to you for half what you would be paying, or in my case (usually free).
I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there. All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.
On top of that I had to wait in line to determine which line I could stand in - then had to pay someone to bag my groceries. (Did you know they look at you funny when you say you'll bag your own :) )
I do like the case sales but I have this AWESOME meat market down the street that the commissary couldn't even try to compete with in terms of quality and service.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PM
I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there. All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.
Yeah, those darn old veterans can sure be annoying, can't they? Worse, some of them are in wheelchairs or have assistance animals. Shame on them for blocking your access.
Sigh.
Elderly folks -- and especially seniors with disabilities -- have access and mobility issues you and I cannot really imagine. Age and disabilities limit their ability to enjoy the few privledges and benefits their years of service to our nation have earned them.
Perhaps if you offered to help them get out more often, they wouldn't need multiple carts. Maybe if more CAP folks dropped by to visit and help them with basic tasks like cooking and cleaning, their personal sanitation and dignity could be improved.
Remember, you and I will be the elderly veterans someday. I hope nobody is ashamed of me as I use the commissary.
Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy
Quote from: Ned on March 05, 2008, 05:20:29 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PM
I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there. All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.
Yeah, those darn old veterans can sure be annoying, can't they? Worse, some of them are in wheelchairs or have assistance animals. Shame on them for blocking your access.
Sigh.
Elderly folks -- and especially seniors with disabilities -- have access and mobility issues you and I cannot really imagine. Age and disabilities limit their ability to enjoy the few privledges and benefits their years of service to our nation have earned them.
Perhaps if you offered to help them get out more often, they wouldn't need multiple carts. Maybe if more CAP folks dropped by to visit and help them with basic tasks like cooking and cleaning, their personal sanitation and dignity could be improved.
Remember, you and I will be the elderly veterans someday. I hope nobody is ashamed of me as I use the commissary.
Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy
Not intended to be mean spirited...and the scent thing was more along the mothball arena than the personal odors...but it appears as though I've said enough.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PMOn top of that I had to wait in line to determine which line I could stand in - then had to pay someone to bag my groceries. (Did you know they look at you funny when you say you'll bag your own :) )
I don't know how it is now, but baggers at the Comissary used to work for only tips, they didn't get an actual paycheck. No tips for them means they're not getting paid.
Jobs that usually rely on tips for income don't make much more than minimum wage, provided that the employer doesn't claim tip credit wages(which are drastically lower than minimum).
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMUmmm I do believe reservists and Guardsman began receiving fulltime Commissary benefits about 5 years ago.
IIRC, it was longer ago than that. I seem to remember the change back in '98, when I was still on active duty. DEFCOMS was losing money, so they allowed everyone to shop there. Made sense to let everyone in a uniform, whether part time or not, use it.
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMThere was a push to get a new version of CAC, and each Federal Agency would be involved in it. If this eventually pans out, NHQ better get off its ass and make sure the membership also gets a piece of it.
I was out at an AF base last week, and saw one of the CAC readers in the BX. I picked it up. It was worth the 25 bucks to eliminate the annoyance of going in to drill and begging "Please, please, please, can someone log me in on one of the computers so I can change my AKO password?!" I was getting really tired of that. We were told at drill that with the change to require a CAC for password stuff that we would be issued CAC readers. That was late '06. They have yet to materialize.
As for CAP, I would personally buy five of them, take them into the squadron so everybody would be able to use them. I'd only require that they be locked in a drawer or something. It would be far easier to cut someone's access if they get 2B'd or their membership expires.
Not to mention how much easier it would be to log people into a mission base with them. Most of the time, there are a couple to a half dozen computers at a mission base. You could put people's quals on the card as well. No more carrying two or three cards, it could be all on one. Overall, the handiness would probably outweigh the cost in a very short period of time.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PMOn top of that I had to wait in line to determine which line I could stand in - then had to pay someone to bag my groceries. (Did you know they look at you funny when you say you'll bag your own :) )
I don't know how it is now, but baggers at the Comissary used to work for only tips, they didn't get an actual paycheck. No tips for them means they're not getting paid.
Jobs that usually rely on tips for income don't make much more than minimum wage, provided that the employer doesn't claim tip credit wages(which are drastically lower than minimum).
That's kind of my point, there are no 'normal' grocery stores that make their baggers work for tips only - it's included in the cost of doing business and they somehow manage to have better or the same level of service for around the same price...
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMUmmm I do believe reservists and Guardsman began receiving fulltime Commissary benefits about 5 years ago.
IIRC, it was longer ago than that. I seem to remember the change back in '98, when I was still on active duty. DEFCOMS was losing money, so they allowed everyone to shop there. Made sense to let everyone in a uniform, whether part time or not, use it.
Saw a notice the other day that they're trying to introduce more programs to make commissaries more accessible to guard/reserve, particularly families of deployed soldiers. Don't know what that means exactly, or if they do either yet.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMThere was a push to get a new version of CAC, and each Federal Agency would be involved in it. If this eventually pans out, NHQ better get off its ass and make sure the membership also gets a piece of it.
I was out at an AF base last week, and saw one of the CAC readers in the BX. I picked it up. It was worth the 25 bucks to eliminate the annoyance of going in to drill and begging "Please, please, please, can someone log me in on one of the computers so I can change my AKO password?!" I was getting really tired of that. We were told at drill that with the change to require a CAC for password stuff that we would be issued CAC readers. That was late '06. They have yet to materialize.
As for CAP, I would personally buy five of them, take them into the squadron so everybody would be able to use them. I'd only require that they be locked in a drawer or something. It would be far easier to cut someone's access if they get 2B'd or their membership expires.
Not to mention how much easier it would be to log people into a mission base with them. Most of the time, there are a couple to a half dozen computers at a mission base. You could put people's quals on the card as well. No more carrying two or three cards, it could be all on one. Overall, the handiness would probably outweigh the cost in a very short period of time.
Picked one up recently myself. I know all fed agencies are going to a CAC/smart card, but not necessarily one that looks anything like the mil cards. Just means the chip inside can be read by shared software.
I know FEMA is also under a mandate to get all emergency responders (incl state/local) into smart cards that verify identity, background check has been done, and quals under their sys/standards. And then that's going to be how you gain access to a disaster area &/or sign into a mission. From what I understand, and I don't know if this is final yet, it's supposed to be agency issued. So fed agency IDs get a CAC-type chip. State/local get state issued IDs w/ same chip. Obviously some money to help them pay for that. We'll see how it all works out.
^ There is no reason to pay the baggers. Many grocery stores are moving toward this cost saving measure.
Trust me, the tips the baggers get at even the smallest Commissary far outweight the minimum wage they would be getting if they were bagging at a big box retailer.
I live by the DECA system. It is a true benefit to those who serve this country.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
IIRC, it was longer ago than that. I seem to remember the change back in '98, when I was still on active duty.
No, it is a recent change. They had huge posters up at most stores I think in 03 or 04.
It will be a cold day in **** before I tip a grocery store bagger.
Quote from: RiverAux on March 05, 2008, 07:31:39 PM
It will be a cold day in **** before I tip a grocery store bagger.
Is there a full moon out or something?
I'm having a little trouble understanding all the hostility directed at the military commissary system. A system that has been serving AD folks and retirees since the Civil War era.
The baggers are independant contractors who work for tips, period. This time-honored system has a couple of terrific benefits. First and foremost, it allows the commissaries to save money. Remember, the commissary charges wholesale price plus the 5% surcharge to cover some of the costs. And in reality, most of the cost of the commissary system is covered by appropriated funds, which is why they can offer the same food as a civilian market at a lower price. If the baggers had to be the same sort of civil-service employee as the cashiers, stockers, and managers it would cost the system the salaries and benefits of the baggers.
Second, at most bases, the baggers are mostly dependants who are earning a little extra money on the side. Keeping dependants occupied and earning a little extra money is a good thing. It is positive for morale and keeps some of the younger dependants out of mischief.
If you don't want to tip the baggers, just bag your own groceries. No big deal. They will have enough customers without your contribution.
You might also want to bypass that annoying Girls Scout selling cookies outside the commissary door this time of year. It should be a "cold day in * * * *" before you purchase Somoas or Thin Mints.
Sigh.
Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy
Never been to a commisary, and probably never will. Thats not the point. I'm not going to tip somebody who should be getting paid fully by their employer. Unfortunately, we're seeing more and more places in our culture where tipping is expected and I don't like it. Call me a grinch, but there it is.
Quote from: Ned on March 05, 2008, 05:20:29 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PM
I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there. All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.
Yeah, those darn old veterans can sure be annoying, can't they? Worse, some of them are in wheelchairs or have assistance animals. Shame on them for blocking your access.
Sigh.
Elderly folks -- and especially seniors with disabilities -- have access and mobility issues you and I cannot really imagine. Age and disabilities limit their ability to enjoy the few privledges and benefits their years of service to our nation have earned them.
Perhaps if you offered to help them get out more often, they wouldn't need multiple carts. Maybe if more CAP folks dropped by to visit and help them with basic tasks like cooking and cleaning, their personal sanitation and dignity could be improved.
Remember, you and I will be the elderly veterans someday. I hope nobody is ashamed of me as I use the commissary.
Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy
And those people that asked for you to pay them to bag your groceries... probably dependents of military personnel who can't work off post because military bases are usually located in areas with little employment possibilities.
After the last 10 or so posts on this topic, I suspect that there are some folks who are in "duck and cover" mode. Probably a good idea not to piss off a bunch of "old veterans" about the benefits that they EARNED in the military.
A word of advice: if you haven't walked the walk, it is probably better to not try to talk the talk.
Quote from: RiverAux on March 05, 2008, 11:17:46 PM
Never been to a commisary, and probably never will. Thats not the point. I'm not going to tip somebody who should be getting paid fully by their employer. Unfortunately, we're seeing more and more places in our culture where tipping is expected and I don't like it. Call me a grinch, but there it is.
To be fair, there are a lot of places that expect tips, and there that tipping is not appropriate. It is appropriate to tip a waiter or waitress, a driver delivering food, barbers/stylists, even some of the places that make specialty coffees while you wait. There's a few others, I'm sure people know what they are.
I don't think that the sandwich maker at Subway, or a person that just sells you a bottle of water falls into that category. Most of them aren't working for a company claiming tip credit. Anyone at a place like that that asks you to, doesn't deserve it. A lot of places like that have employees putting up tip jars. It's not appropriate for them to do so. Just because it's expected, doesn't mean it's appropriate.
Why would you tip a barber? They have a set price for a haircut. If they think that is too low, then they should raise the price. What is the difference between what they are doing and the mechanic fixing my car?
Be aware that if you pay for your meal at a restaurant with a credit card that some restaurants are starting to take part of the tip that is charged to that credit card away from the server.
Anyway, we're off topic. Sorry.
Quote from: RiverAux on March 06, 2008, 11:20:49 PM
Why would you tip a barber? They have a set price for a haircut. If they think that is too low, then they should raise the price. What is the difference between what they are doing and the mechanic fixing my car?
Be aware that if you pay for your meal at a restaurant with a credit card that some restaurants are starting to take part of the tip that is charged to that credit card away from the server.
Anyway, we're off topic. Sorry.
Because prices at barber shops are set by the owners, not the employees and because the standard practice is to to have a salary (per day) for the barber which includes some quota of haircuts. Anything the barber does after that quota is met gets split 50/50 or 60/40 (depending on agreement). Anyway, most money made by barbers and manicurists/facialists comes from tips, not wages. I know this because my mother owns a salon.
^ The AAFES policy for barbers and stylists working on posts/ bases is they get 4 bucks an hour, and everyone who worked that day splits the tips that go into a central till. It is a fair system. So I pay 5 bucks at the AAFES barber shop, or 2 bucks if I go to the O-Club (one of the benefits if you join, not to mention the 5 cent drinks between 5PM and 6PM each night). Guess you can see why I like to get out of work at 430PM.....enough time to make it to the club to spend 50 cents on beer and 5 bucks for a cab home! Woot!
theres a topic in here somewhere.
^ Um ya ....
QuoteAre CAP IDs issued in a constant progression, or are they decommissioned as members leave/die and reissued to new people that come in?
I think it is constant progression. Not sure about when the member leaves or dies. However, had one member leave in 2004, come back last month and he has his same CAPID number. So I would imagine once you receive a CAPID number, its yours for life.
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 08, 2008, 09:14:58 AM
^ Um ya ....
QuoteAre CAP IDs issued in a constant progression, or are they decommissioned as members leave/die and reissued to new people that come in?
I think it is constant progression. Not sure about when the member leaves or dies. However, had one member leave in 2004, come back last month and he has his same CAPID number. So I would imagine once you receive a CAPID number, its yours for life.
Yep. Mine survived a 15 year break.
^ there you go case solved, thread can be locked!
Quote from: jaybird512 on March 08, 2008, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 08, 2008, 09:14:58 AM
^ Um ya ....
QuoteAre CAP IDs issued in a constant progression, or are they decommissioned as members leave/die and reissued to new people that come in?
I think it is constant progression. Not sure about when the member leaves or dies. However, had one member leave in 2004, come back last month and he has his same CAPID number. So I would imagine once you receive a CAPID number, its yours for life.
Yep. Mine survived a 15 year break.
They didn't have CAPID's 15 years ago though.... 11 years ago when I joined your CAPID was your SSN, it was fun trying to convince the people at NHQ that the Admin officer messed up my social by accidentally replacing all the 7's with 3's ??? ::) side note, if you have glasses, wear them. However (theoretically) we still have about 500,000 more members to join before we have to worry about it.
In 1998, they were still using SSN. I have my ID card still. I believe the transition was either in late 1998 or in 1999.
My first CAPID was my SSAN, back in Aug 99, I believe it changed that Oct. It should also be noted that employees also get a CAPID number, so its not just a membership number.
Hmm. I don't really remember what number was used when I was a cadet, I just assumed it was a capid. I posted earlier that I was a cadet in 91 to 92 and my stuff was still in eservices when i re-joined last year. I got a capid of 162xxx. Most everyone else in my squadron has 300,000 and 400,000 numbers.
I just assumed, but now I'm not sure where the number came from.
Quote from: jaybird512 on March 08, 2008, 07:22:31 PM
Hmm. I don't really remember what number was used when I was a cadet, I just assumed it was a capid. I posted earlier that I was a cadet in 91 to 92 and my stuff was still in eservices when i re-joined last year. I got a capid of 162xxx. Most everyone else in my squadron has 300,000 and 400,000 numbers.
I just assumed, but now I'm not sure where the number came from.
Well you defiantly received a lower number because you used to be a member, defiantly confused on how the numbers were assigned now though. doing the math based on my number if they assigned a CAPID to everyone who was ever a member from 1941-1997(when I joined) that would work out to about 4251 numbers per year; theoretically feasible.
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 08, 2008, 07:46:42 PM
Quote from: jaybird512 on March 08, 2008, 07:22:31 PM
Hmm. I don't really remember what number was used when I was a cadet, I just assumed it was a capid. I posted earlier that I was a cadet in 91 to 92 and my stuff was still in eservices when i re-joined last year. I got a capid of 162xxx. Most everyone else in my squadron has 300,000 and 400,000 numbers.
I just assumed, but now I'm not sure where the number came from.
Well you defiantly received a lower number because you used to be a member, defiantly confused on how the numbers were assigned now though. doing the math based on my number if they assigned a CAPID to everyone who was ever a member from 1941-1997(when I joined) that would work out to about 4251 numbers per year; theoretically feasible.
Not necessarily so... I was a cadink and s'member from 1977 until 1988 back in the day when the CAPID was the same as the SSAN. When I returned to CAP in 2005 my new CAPID was in the 400000 series; there's gotta be a point somewhere when NHQ CAP went fully electronic. I think it was the early to mid-1990s.
It's entirely possible that there may be a very low CAPID number correlated to my old CAPID, but I wouldn't be surprised that my previous CAP membership survived the transition.
I joined in 1997 and at the time it was my SSAN, about 2 years later it switched to the current system, I ended up with a 229 number.
Another member of my current squadron who rejoined after a break since the 1992 was able to get his "old CAPID" number which was in the 110 arena.
There's only two people in my unit with CAPIDs with a start digit of "1" -- mine starts 113 and the other, a 50-year member, starts with 101.
I joined in May 1984 as a cadet. I never really thought about my ID number until this thread, other than that it's curious that mine's only 1s and 3s... and that 13 is my baseball jersey number.
Four of my 50+ members have CAPIDs that start with a 2. The others? Mostly 4s.