Online Testing

[Tubacap]

Does anyone know the status of the online cadet testing program?

[Eclipse]

Yes, it was decided it should never be discussed again...

[jimmydeanno]

Goes before the NB in February to get permission to develop the program.

Major hold up will be the development of the next leadership book - so I'd expect a little while before it comes to fruition.

But I would recommend that if you are for it - let your NB representative know you want to see it happen.

[Eclipse]

Goes before the NB in February to get permission to develop the program.

Nertz...OK, what he said...

[Dutchboy]

From what I heard from my Wing CC is online testing in general goes before the NB for approval for it to be developed. That includes the Cadet Testing and the new version of the Senior Officer's Course.

I hope that was not to far off topic... was it MIKE?

[capchiro]

This one bothers me.  I really feel like it is a good idea.  With that said, I have heard that as many as 75-80% of recent high school graduates admit cheating on tests in high school.  We are now offering an open book test on line with no monitoring.  As a young, immature 12 year old cadet, it would seem easy to rationalize that since the test is open book, it can't be too important and since no one will know, I will get my 14 year old buddy or girl friend to help me out since they have already taken this test.  Now, the hard part.  The cheating is not the end of the world, but the damage to one's own self-respect is terrible.  Maybe not at the moment, but later when the cadet learns the important things in life.  I really feel that we may be sitting some cadets up for failure.  Say a cadet cheats on his first two tests and then straightens up.  Say he gets into the Air Force Academy later.  He/She will always know in his heart that he/she is a cheater and will always have nagging doubts about his/her own worth.  I think we sometimes expect too  much out of our younger cadets and we need to be in charge more to make sure they don't make mistakes that they don't realize the consequences of.  As usual, JMHO.     

[Strick]

Looks like everyone will be wearing diamonds

[swamprat86]

My understanding is that the milestone test will still be done the way they are now.  As this may not address the cheating self-worth issue, this should help monitor this from control and progression stand point.

[jimmydeanno]

Looks like everyone will be wearing diamonds

Yeah, because our program is comprised of miscreants looking for ways to cheat the system.   

Is our program designed to make sure that cadets can pass a test or is it to develop leadership?  If you don't know how to evaluate leadership skill so that you are relying on a test to be the "hold up" for a cadet, perhaps you should evaluate your cadet program and see where it is failing.

[lordmonar]

I agree thwi jimmydeanno,

We usually see here on this forum complaints that we stress the tests too much....but when we destress them (by making them open book and online) we see a jump in the "but they may cheat" and "that will lessen the standards".

Bottom line is that the Commander or the DCC should promote cadets when they are ready...even if they have passed all their tests.  That will not change no matter how those tests are administered.

[RiverAux]

You could always require that all or some online tests be proctored by someone in authority if this was a concern.  Not always easy to implement, but do-able.

[Ned]

On the "test integrity" issue, the proposal has included several safeguards.

First, each cadet will be required to complete an Honor Statement as follows:

I certify that I am Cadet (Name). I will complete the following Cadet Achievement Test on my own, without help from another person. My only resource for this open-book test will be my cadet textbooks and class notes. [By clicking below,] I reaffirm my commitment to our Core Value of Integrity.

Second, the on-line version of the test draws at random from a bank of questions that have been written for the achievment.  Even a cadet who has taken the test before would see a substantially different set of questions.

Third, the questions will be designed to test for comprehension rather than  memorization to minimize the Google effect.

Fourth (and most importantly), as others have pointed out, the comprehensive milestone tests are "closed-book" and will still be locally administered and proctored.  IOW, even if the other integrity safequards fail to prevent cheating, then the cadet will hit a roadblock at the end of their current phase and will not be able to promote.

The NHQ crew has put a lot of time and effort into crafting this proposal. It was been published on the NHQ website (in the CP Proving Grounds) for a year and discussed widely with CP leaders and the various CACs at numerous conferences.  (As well as here on CT and CadetStuff.)  As a direct result of input from the field, we added additional integrity safeguards into the final proposal.

Please let your wing commander know about any of your concerns so we can address them at the NB.

Ned Lee

[Spike]

Bump....

I am wondering with the new testing going on line very shortly, can a Squadron just setup a bank of computers and require Cadets to come in and take tests there, instead of at home?  I have space, computers and government internet at the Base.  I have even spoken to the Base Commander about allowing the Cadets to use the Education Center (on days when CAP does not meet) and he has approved it. 

Is this OK?  OR do all tests have to be taken away from the Squadron setting??

Thanks

[Al Sayre]

Making the computers available for testing is a good thing, forcing the Cadets to test using only them kind of defeats the whole purpose of the online testing.  It frees up your meeting time and reduces the stress level of the Cadets taking the test.  Might as well go back to 1 night a month paper testing.  Also, I'm not sure how you could stop them from doing it at home since the test will auto-grade and populate in the Cadet section of e-Services.

[brasda91]

This one bothers me.  I really feel like it is a good idea.  With that said, I have heard that as many as 75-80% of recent high school graduates admit cheating on tests in high school.  We are now offering an open book test on line with no monitoring.  As a young, immature 12 year old cadet, it would seem easy to rationalize that since the test is open book, it can't be too important and since no one will know, I will get my 14 year old buddy or girl friend to help me out since they have already taken this test.  Now, the hard part.  The cheating is not the end of the world, but the damage to one's own self-respect is terrible.  Maybe not at the moment, but later when the cadet learns the important things in life.  I really feel that we may be sitting some cadets up for failure.  Say a cadet cheats on his first two tests and then straightens up.  Say he gets into the Air Force Academy later.  He/She will always know in his heart that he/she is a cheater and will always have nagging doubts about his/her own worth.  I think we sometimes expect too  much out of our younger cadets and we need to be in charge more to make sure they don't make mistakes that they don't realize the consequences of.  As usual, JMHO.   

Sounds good.  Make sure you tell your Cadets this.

[Spike]

^ Understand even some tests for Officers in the Armed Forces are "Open Book".  The underlying test (the "real test") is learning where to go for the the answers.  Knowing how to access information and use it properly is more important than memorization of said information.

That is why they publish "Physicians Desk References", did publish encyclopedias and have manuals for everything. 

Knowing where to find answers will benefit our future generations more than actually having memorized as much as they could.

 

[Eclipse]

^ Understand even some tests for Officers in the Armed Forces are "Open Book".  The underlying test (the "real test") is learning where to go for the the answers.  Knowing how to access information and use it properly is more important than memorization of said information.

That is why they publish "Physicians Desk References", did publish encyclopedias and have manuals for everything. 

Knowing where to find answers will benefit our future generations more than actually having memorized as much as they could.

I agree with 100% of your points, 10 years ago.

They are irrelevant now considering the sum total of human knowledge is accessible with a click.  There isn't a multiple choice test written that the average, reasonably intelligent person couldn't pass with good Google-Fu.

[Spike]

^ that is why I asked if I can make cadets take tests in the Squadron before meetings, like we do now or take them at the Air Force Education Center any day of their choosing.  That would inhibit the chances of "helping you buddy". 

[Eclipse]

^ that is why I asked if I can make cadets take tests in the Squadron before meetings, like we do now or take them at the Air Force Education Center any day of their choosing.  That would inhibit the chances of "helping you buddy".

We're not even talking about legit "cheating", - its "open book", and the book is online, which means that the cadet's smartphone, another
notebook, or just a separate browser window are all fair game.

So it doesn't matter where you physically take the test. Even if you were to make up an unsupportable rule about not allowing access to the internet for the "book", which would never fly, you can index all the regs and copy things locally to the same effect.

Unless we do these through a PME or similar, and write down what constitutes a "book" for the purposes of "open book", other than literally turning to your buddy and asking what "...the answer to #6 is...", there's no way to actually cheat on these tests.

[flyguy06]

Goes before the NB in February to get permission to develop the program.

Major hold up will be the development of the next leadership book - so I'd expect a little while before it comes to fruition.

But I would recommend that if you are for it - let your NB representative know you want to see it happen.

What if I'm against it?

[Eclipse]

Goes before the NB in February to get permission to develop the program.

Major hold up will be the development of the next leadership book - so I'd expect a little while before it comes to fruition.

But I would recommend that if you are for it - let your NB representative know you want to see it happen.

What if I'm against it?

Unless you have a WABAC machine, this is a done deal, starts in April.