Basic, Senior and Master EMT/Paramedic Badge

[IrishFireFIghter25]

I've seen this topic before but its always split 1/2 yes and 1/2 not yet. Are the new Basic, Senior and Master EMT badge in effect yet or no? I have seen plenty of people wearing them but can't find it in 39-1 (which we all know is not up to date) or any memorandums. Does anyone have any official documentation showing this? (Yes I've seen the power point by Susie Parker, OFFICIAL documentation)

[flyerthom]

Might do better to ask that over here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAP_HEALTH_SERVICES/

[BlueLakes1]

I sent a knowledgebase in about this some time ago, and the reply that I got was that since the NB approved it, and it was in the NB minutes, that was adequate approval to wear. I have not seen a formal ICL or a change to any regulation that approves it since then.

[CadetProgramGuy]

From the knowledgebase:

Yes. Upon satisfactory completion of a US DOT EMT/Paramedic Training Course or approved equivalent, members may wear the EMT badge or patch meeting the requirements in CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual.  Provide a copy of your completion certificate to your professional development officer for entry in your records.

See CAPM 39-1 Table 6-2. Authorized Badges and Devices, and Proper Placement on the Service Uniform
Specialty Insignia (Chaplain, Legal, Medical, EMT, Ground Team)
Men: centered 1/2 inch above the left breast pocket or 1/2 inch above ribbons. Women: centered 1/2 inch above top row of ribbons; when no ribbons are worn, positioned on the left side of the blouse or coat, 1/2 inch above imaginary row of ribbons. If the wearer is also authorized to wear a CAP aviation badge, the specialty insignia will be worn 1/2 inch beneath the wings, except the chaplain insignia which is worn above the aviation badge.

Table 6-4. Wear of Badges, Patches, and Devices on Flight Suits, BDUs, Utility Uniforms and Field Uniforms.
Specialty Insignia (Chaplain, Legal, Medical, EMT, Ground Team)  embroidered in white cotton thread centered 1/2-inch above the cloth "Civil Air Patrol" tape worn over the left breast pocket of BDU, field uniform and BDU or dark blue field jacket, 1/2 inch below aviation badge.  EXCEPTION: chaplain insignia is worn 1/2 inch  above the aviation badge.

[wingnut55]

LOOK IN THE REGS

MUST BE CURRENT EMT

I got my EMT in 1977, I cannot wear it any more.

[Eclipse]

LOOK IN THE REGS

MUST BE CURRENT EMT

Cite please - must be current for issue, but like all other badges, once you get it you can wear it for life.

[wacapgh]

With one exception that I can find - the CPR patch

CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005, TABLE 6-4
NOTES:
1. Any nationally recognized patch awarded by a certifying agency (Heart Association, American Red
Cross, etc.) upon completion of a CPR training course. Patch will be removed when no longer
current.

Unless there's an ICL or board minute I've overlooked, this is the only patch in the reg. that must be removed when no longer current.

[EMT-83]

Why on earth would anyone who's not a current EMT wear an EMT badge?

I can see it now... here's an EMT to help you, sir. Oh, never mind.

[Ned]

Why on earth would anyone who's not a current EMT wear an EMT badge?

I dunno.

Maybe the same reason non-current pilots wear their earned wings?

Or a retired physician still wears her caduceus?

Retired soldeirs wearing jump wings?

Someone who is not longer active in CP still wearing their CP badge?


Probably as many reasons as there are badge-wearers.

[Slim]

With one exception that I can find - the CPR patch

CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005, TABLE 6-4
NOTES:
1. Any nationally recognized patch awarded by a certifying agency (Heart Association, American Red
Cross, etc.) upon completion of a CPR training course. Patch will be removed when no longer
current.

Unless there's an ICL or board minute I've overlooked, this is the only patch in the reg. that must be removed when no longer current.

Prior to the EMT/medic badge, we were allowed to wear any patch depicting the star of life, with the same caveat; it must be removed when no longer current.

Personally, as one who wears the badge, I think that same caveat should have carried over to the new badge.  But that's just me.  If I let my license go for whatever reason, my badge will come off and be replaced by my GTM badge.

[BlueLakes1]

Why on earth would anyone who's not a current EMT wear an EMT badge?

I dunno.

Maybe the same reason non-current pilots wear their earned wings?

Or a retired physician still wears her caduceus?

Retired soldeirs wearing jump wings?

Someone who is not longer active in CP still wearing their CP badge?


Probably as many reasons as there are badge-wearers.

I think that the main difference is that (in my state at least), if a person's EMT or paramedic certificate/license (paramedics are licensed here) expires, they are legally forbidden from identifying themselves as such. A retired physician is still a "doctor" based on their medical degree, whether or not they continue to practice. Of course, that may vary state to state.

YMMV, of course.

[Thrashed]

I'm sorry you're bleeding to death, but I cannot help you.  My certification has expired.  I now know nothing. Have a nice day.

[RiverAux]

I don't have a (big) problem with CAP members wearing CAP badges that they've earned in the past but are no longer current in, but for something like this I think it should only be worn when current.  For one, the badge is based on non-CAP criteria and if the issuing agency would no longer call this person an EMT, we shouldn't either by letting them wear an EMT badge on their CAP uniform.  Additionally, the badge implies that they are able to provide a certain level of care and while they may still retain a lot of the knowledge of an EMT, they would not legally be able to perform a lot of specific actions that EMTs are authorized to do. 

[EMT-83]

I'm sorry you're bleeding to death, but I cannot help you.  My certification has expired.  I now know nothing. Have a nice day.

It's not quite that simple. Of course an expired EMT (or any other halfway intelligent person) is going to take steps to save a life. Your knowledge doesn't just disappear with your certification.

However, someone who presents himself as being medically certified, when he isn't, can open a whole can of worms. Scary terms like duty to act and abandonment come to mind.

I know of someone who used to wear his girlfriend's EMT jacket, because he thought it was cool. It got pretty serious when he was sitting in a restaurant, with the jacket but minus the girlfriend, and there was a medical emergency.

... here's an EMT to help you, sir. Oh, never mind.

[Ned]

I think it should only be worn when current.  For one, the badge is based on non-CAP criteria and if the issuing agency would no longer call this person an EMT, we shouldn't either by letting them wear an EMT badge on their CAP uniform. 

Kinda like a non-current pilot, wouldn't you agree?

Additionally, the badge implies that they are able to provide a certain level of care and while they may still retain a lot of the knowledge of an EMT, they would not legally be able to perform a lot of specific actions that EMTs are authorized to do.

Again, kinda like a non-current pilot.

or to put it medical paradigm, a retired physician wearing her caduceus.

Should our retired doctor be forced to remove her caduceus?

[RiverAux]

Perhaps the implication of my prior post didn't sink in, but I don't particularly like that you can wear any badge that you are no longer qualified for.  I just don't think it is a big deal for CAP-related badges such as pilot wings. 

But something like an EMT badge is a little different in my book.  Same goes for the Dr. symbol.  Yes, they should no longer have it on their uniform. 

If we don't let people no longer qualified to do CPR wear the CPR badge (which we probably don't need, but thats another story), why in the world would we want people with higher medical qualifications wear badges they are no longer qualified to wear? 

No one knows what CAP badges stand for, but these medical symbols are ones that are likely to be recognized by the general public.  By CAP authorizing their wear on our uniforms, it implies that we have certified that they are qualified to perform those duties and if they aren't it just makes us look stupid for implying that they are.

[JayT]

I think it should only be worn when current.  For one, the badge is based on non-CAP criteria and if the issuing agency would no longer call this person an EMT, we shouldn't either by letting them wear an EMT badge on their CAP uniform. 

Kinda like a non-current pilot, wouldn't you agree?

Additionally, the badge implies that they are able to provide a certain level of care and while they may still retain a lot of the knowledge of an EMT, they would not legally be able to perform a lot of specific actions that EMTs are authorized to do.

Again, kinda like a non-current pilot.

or to put it medical paradigm, a retired physician wearing her caduceus.

Should our retired doctor be forced to remove her caduceus?

Yees, but nobody is throwing a retired pilot the keys to a Cessna.

[kilnerd]

This is an interesting concept because both arguments are valid. I wear earned badges that I am qualified to wear however, I understand the argument to remove them when you are no longer current. But the downside to this argument is with the obvious point with the doctors and pilots, were they qualified - yes  are they currently qualified - no. Now with that said assuming that they have not become completely incoherent in the last few years since they were current in their qualifications, could they perform the task if it were a necessity - I would think that they could - would they most likely use the most current tools - no but none the less if my choice were a retired doctor vs. no doctor, well I know which I am going to choose.

[ZackN]

I submitted a question about this myself, however have yet to receive an answer. Am I correct in assuming that the level of badge corresponds to your level of training?

EMT-Basic - EMT/Paramedic Badge

EMT-Intermediate - Senior EMT/Paramedic Badge

EMT-Paramedic - Master EMT/Paramedic Badge



Thanks

[CadetProgramGuy]

I submitted a question about this myself, however have yet to receive an answer. Am I correct in assuming that the level of badge corresponds to your level of training?

EMT-Basic - EMT/Paramedic Badge

EMT-Intermediate - Senior EMT/Paramedic Badge

EMT-Paramedic - Master EMT/Paramedic Badge



Thanks

That is the current line of thinking, however when the new national scope comes out, there will have to be a re-thinking of this  process.

[Eclipse]

This is an interesting concept because both arguments are valid. I wear earned badges that I am qualified to wear however, I understand the argument to remove them when you are no longer current. But the downside to this argument is with the obvious point with the doctors and pilots, were they qualified - yes  are they currently qualified - no. Now with that said assuming that they have not become completely incoherent in the last few years since they were current in their qualifications, could they perform the task if it were a necessity - I would think that they could - would they most likely use the most current tools - no but none the less if my choice were a retired doctor vs. no doctor, well I know which I am going to choose.

Current qualifications are irrelevant to wear of the badge - qualify once, wear it for life.  This is supported by both CAP regs and military tradition.

We don't task people during missions based on what they have on their uniform, we do it based on their 101 card and/or eServices, so the fact that they have wings or a GBD badge doesn't make any difference in any operational role.

Now, if someone asks a former EMT to start an IV because they see a SoL badge, and the (now) unlicensed, unqualified member is dumb enough to do it without saying he's out of currency, then the member deserves all the heat he will gets.

The badges simply indicate that a person did "x" to the satisfaction of a CAP evaluator once, nothing more (or less).

[ZackN]

And they are approved for wear at  this time? As for using their 101 card, I may be incorrect as I have been out of the picture for awhile, but I do not recall seeing the option for placing health care qualifications on it?

[Eclipse]

And they are approved for wear at  this time? As for using their 101 card, I may be incorrect as I have been out of the picture for awhile, but I do not recall seeing the option for placing health care qualifications on it?

There aren't because there are currently no health care ES qualifications.  CAP is not a medical responder agency.

The wear of the EMT, Medical, are recognition of service and certification outside CAP, nothing more - they confer no special abilities
or standing beyond that.

I think you can buy the badges, but since there's no objective definitions of the levels of badge, wearing them is an issue.

[JohnnyT]

OK, here is another question, maybe someone can answer. I am aware of a member who dosen't have his EMT rating anymore, but still wears the badge. I asked if I could also wear the badge since I was previously a registered/licensed EMT as was told I could not. Why is that? I would have met the same qualification standards as this other member? I still have copies of my certificate, registration and license to prove I was an EMT.

Thanks

Johnny T

[Major Lord]

Johnny,

Seriously? You can't wear it because you are not a current EMT in your State. End of story.  Just because the other guy is doing it does not give you a waiver to wear it. It sounds like you are more interested in burning the other guy, which is understandable, but not necessarily prudent to do directly.

Major Lord

[Flying Pig]

I dont recall where it is.  And I cant find it right now, but it does (or did) state that you must be current.  Thats why I dont wear mine anymore.  Unless they dropped the currency requirement since then. 

[SARDOC]

Below is the Quote from the March 2005 National Board Meeting Minutes

3. Modification to EMT/Paramedic Badge.
COL ROBINSON/RMR MOVED and COL GLASGOW/NCR seconded the committee
recommendation that the National Board  approve the 3-level EMT/Paramedic
badges and eliminate the wear of an EMT patch on the left BDU pocket.  March 2005 National Board 
16
MOTION CARRIED WITH NO DISSENTING VOTES.
FOLLOW-ON ACTION:  Implementation of policy, notification to the field, and change to
regulation.  There was agreement that the phase-in date would be set by National
Headquarters.
NOTE:  There was clarification that members would wear these badges according to
their individual state licensure levels as an EMT.

[Hawk200]

I would hope that a former EMT (as in not currently certified) would not wear that badge on an operational uniform. On a dress uniform, it's a different manner. Even a formerly certified EMT can do things, and even more importantly, knows what not to do in the case of an emergency.

These things need to be codified into publications. We have pubs for a reason. We run on those, not Board minutes. And, not everybody sees Board minutes (I know they're readily accessible to someone who truly wants to find them and knows how, but not everyone does.)

I have no problem with someone doing something approved by the Board, first: they should be able to produce the Boards approval, second: that should only be used until the pub is updated (this is where our greatest failure seems to be regularly occuring.)

[lordmonar]

Okay....question.....


If your EMT quals lapse.....you have to take off the badge.
But if you FAA medical lapses....you don't have to take off your pilot wings.

Why the difference?

[arajca]

Below is the Quote from the March 2005 National Board Meeting Minutes

3. Modification to EMT/Paramedic Badge.
COL ROBINSON/RMR MOVED and COL GLASGOW/NCR seconded the committee
recommendation that the National Board  approve the 3-level EMT/Paramedic
badges and eliminate the wear of an EMT patch on the left BDU pocket.  March 2005 National Board 
16
MOTION CARRIED WITH NO DISSENTING VOTES.
FOLLOW-ON ACTION:  Implementation of policy, notification to the field, and change to
regulation.  There was agreement that the phase-in date would be set by National
Headquarters.
NOTE:  There was clarification that members would wear these badges according to
their individual state licensure levels as an EMT.

Based on that line, even though I am a current EMT, I cannot wear the EMT badge because I am not licensed. I have a certification, not a license. For those who would say it's the same thing, it is not. A medical doctor is licensed. An EMT, of any level in CO, is merely certified.

[Hawk200]

Okay....question.....


If your EMT quals lapse.....you have to take off the badge.
But if you FAA medical lapses....you don't have to take off your pilot wings.

Why the difference?

That was pretty much answered here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9431.msg174554#msg174554

How many emergencies are you going to desperately require a pilot to save a life?

[SarDragon]

Below is the Quote from the March 2005 National Board Meeting Minutes

3. Modification to EMT/Paramedic Badge.
COL ROBINSON/RMR MOVED and COL GLASGOW/NCR seconded the committee
recommendation that the National Board  approve the 3-level EMT/Paramedic
badges and eliminate the wear of an EMT patch on the left BDU pocket.  March 2005 National Board 
16
MOTION CARRIED WITH NO DISSENTING VOTES.
FOLLOW-ON ACTION:  Implementation of policy, notification to the field, and change to
regulation.  There was agreement that the phase-in date would be set by National
Headquarters.
NOTE:  There was clarification that members would wear these badges according to
their individual state licensure levels as an EMT.

Based on that line, even though I am a current EMT, I cannot wear the EMT badge because I am not licensed. I have a certification, not a license. For those who would say it's the same thing, it is not. A medical doctor is licensed. An EMT, of any level in CO, is merely certified.

Actually, that card in your pocket that says you are allowed to fly an airplane is also a certificate.

Here's what the FAA has to say: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/

[lordmonar]

Okay....question.....


If your EMT quals lapse.....you have to take off the badge.
But if you FAA medical lapses....you don't have to take off your pilot wings.

Why the difference?

That was pretty much answered here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9431.msg174554#msg174554

How many emergencies are you going to desperately require a pilot to save a life?

Don't need a badge to save a life.  I have saved many lives....never wore a badge.  That is not the issue I am bringing up.  The question is who can wear the badge.  If the rule say only currently qualifed EMTs.....why is that rule not applied to GT members, pilots, lawyers, MDs, observers, et al?

[Flying Pig]

If you had a badge, maybe you could have saved more?

[lordmonar]

If you had a badge, maybe you could have saved more?

  Nahw.....I didn't like most of the people I saved....

[Hawk200]

That is not the issue I am bringing up.  The question is who can wear the badge.  If the rule say only currently qualifed EMTs.....why is that rule not applied to GT members, pilots, lawyers, MDs, observers, et al?

Because there is a difference in what they can do. A pilot is almost never needed so desperately that there isn't time to check his qualifications. Medical personnel are usually demanded on the spot when identified. Pilots are not.

As an aside, I recall sometype of directive that no longer permits lawyers to wear the badge when not currently serving in that appointed capacity. Something about not offering advice on behalf of CAP, or not involving them somehow. It was another one of those Board minutes things.

[arajca]

That is not the issue I am bringing up.  The question is who can wear the badge.  If the rule say only currently qualifed EMTs.....why is that rule not applied to GT members, pilots, lawyers, MDs, observers, et al?

Because there is a difference in what they can do. A pilot is almost never needed so desperately that there isn't time to check his qualifications. Medical personnel are usually demanded on the spot when identified. Pilots are not.

As an aside, I recall sometype of directive that no longer permits lawyers to wear the badge when not currently serving in that appointed capacity. Something about not offering advice on behalf of CAP, or not involving them somehow. It was another one of those Board minutes things.

OK. So why are doctors and nurses permitted to wear their badges when their license/qualification expire?

[a2capt]

If we were the Civil Medical Patrol, maybe we'd have to yank wings and keep Asclepius on currency expiry?

[Hawk200]

That is not the issue I am bringing up.  The question is who can wear the badge.  If the rule say only currently qualifed EMTs.....why is that rule not applied to GT members, pilots, lawyers, MDs, observers, et al?

Because there is a difference in what they can do. A pilot is almost never needed so desperately that there isn't time to check his qualifications. Medical personnel are usually demanded on the spot when identified. Pilots are not.

As an aside, I recall sometype of directive that no longer permits lawyers to wear the badge when not currently serving in that appointed capacity. Something about not offering advice on behalf of CAP, or not involving them somehow. It was another one of those Board minutes things.

OK. So why are doctors and nurses permitted to wear their badges when their license/qualification expire?

I don't know, are they allowed to? It's a good question if they are permitted to do so. Do their certifications even expire?

There's also differences in how either operate. An EMT/Paramedic is a First Responder, while doctors and nurses are not. That may be why there isn't an issue relating to their badge wear.

Overall, I seriously doubt that you are ever going to have an emergency requirement for a pilot, observer, or ground team member, so an argument against their wearing of a badge after expiration of their qualifications really doesn't seem to be relevent in any manner other than "I can't, so why can they do it?!"

[SarDragon]

I'm don't know why either. In the RealMilitary™, pilots and aircrew can wear their wings after their quals lapse, if there have been no other "for cause" disqualification factors. I'm not sure about some of the other stuff. I think USN warfare badges fit into that, too.

[lordmonar]

That is exactly my point......the badge does not say what you can do....but you did in the past.

So.....why the  hub-bub about the EMT badge?

[SansGroove]

That is exactly my point......the badge does not say what you can do....but you did in the past.

So.....why the  hub-bub about the EMT badge?

I kind of like the fact that wearing it conveys that you are currently certified.  Getting nationally certified as an  intermediate EMT or especially a Paramedic shows some serious dedication that includes many many 100's  hours of study (1000's for that of a paramedic) and clinical experience.  Even once you get your EMT cert you still have to keep it by maintaining CEH's every year.  I think that you guys and gals in CAP that have earned the right to wear this should take PRIDE in the fact that it shows CURRENT certification.  The whole EMT model in out nation has changed over the past couple of decades.  Medics can do a whole lot (more than nurses often  ... that's not a knock against nurses by any means).

The fact that it means current certification is cool...  embrace it.

[SoCalMarine]

This goes to a post I was making in another thread about modernizing the uniform. If we redesigned our speciality track badges to mimic USAF rating and occupational badges (but leave ours full color) and place them above the ribbons like the they do it would look better and fit this situation.

Here's what I mean:

If you've earned a rating in a specialty track (or something like GT, IC or aviation) you always keep that badge. So, move it up. Now, anything that requires a current certification could be places on the pockets and removed when no longer certified. That way we can draw a distinction from what someone is certified in, and what someone has earned a rating in.

Picture it this way... you are USAF aircrew and you're in an air unit. You wear both your A/C wings AND the unit patch. One you've earned and the second you wear while currently certified by being in the unit. Say you then move to another unit and do public affairs. You know pin on the public affairs occupational badge and have a different unit's patch as well, you still maintain the A/C wings because you've earned them. This is a real life example by the way for a friend of mine in the AF in Hawaii.

So, we have a rating/occupational badge for EMT, and then a separate badge/patch you can wear on the pocket for current certification.

The only issue I see with that is the AF won't go for it, and members will complain about costs.

[nesagsar]

Do US Army combat medics have to take off their badge when they get transferred to another branch?

[SoCalMarine]

Do US Army combat medics have to take off their badge when they get transferred to another branch?

Don't know. Each branch has their own uniform regulations; however I know that the you can't wear it in the Marines for two reasons. First, you cannot wear a badge on a Marine Corps uniform you didn't earn while in the Marines; and second, there is no Marine equivalent for the badge so you couldn't earn the badge while in the Marines, or requalify for it if you earned it in another branch.

[Hawk200]

Do US Army combat medics have to take off their badge when they get transferred to another branch?

Combat Medic badge used to be authorized on the Air Force uniforms, but not the EFMB badge. Not certain if it has changed. Wouldn't surprise me if it did, the Air Force does have a history of manifesting "Not Invented Here Syndrome."

[PA Guy]

Do US Army combat medics have to take off their badge when they get transferred to another branch?

"Combat Medic" is a MOS (68W) in the Army.  They may earn the Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB), a killer course taken after AIT, or the Combat Medic Badge if they serve as a medic in combat, similar to the Combat Infantry Badge.  If they stay in the Army the badge goes with them no matter what they do.  If they transfer to a different branch of the military it is hard to say.  Each service has their own policies.

[Sapper168]

The majority of Army badges and skill Tabs can be worn on the air force uniform only while attached to Army units. There are a couple, Jump wings being one that has an Air Force equivilent (Parachutist badge) and is allowed to be worn all the time.

[Bongo1980]

The CAP regulation provides no specifics on whether someone must remove the EMT badge if certification lapses.  However, as a previous medic in the USAF and having earned it, I am PERMANENTLY authorized to wear the Senior Medic badge.  Regardless of the fact that I cross-trained into another field, I do not have to remove the Sr Medic badge.  Once earned, always authorized... in the military, we identified CURRENT medics by yelling 'MEDIC!' and seeing who responded  ... non-current (non-qualified) personnel did not necessarily respond -- if I do, I simply say "I know first aid"... once competent (e.g. current) medical personnel arrived, they had the show...  :clap: