CAP Emergency Services Patch

[Storm Chaser]

coastguard69,

Let it go. You are a cadet and Eclipse is a Lt Col. You want to disagree with him; fine. But you still need to show respect. He called you "cadet", which is what you are. Why do you take offence? He did not insulted you. Furthermore, you questioned his experience with the Cadet Programs based on his "rack". If you look at the badge to the right of his ribbons, you'll see that he has a Master Rating in Cadet Programs which signifies that he does have experience with cadets. You are out of line here, not him.

As to the issue with the ES patch. There are two official patches: the round one with the dog and the oval one with the plane. Yes, I've seen the "smaller" plane patch. But since you can't purchase it from Vanguard (our official uniform vendor), it makes it an unofficial patch. Period.

[jeders]

A few things to keep in mind about pictures.

1. these are pictures of different people, under different conditions (distance, focal length, lighting), from different perspectives (looking up versus straight on).

2. Lighting does screwy things. Obviously Mr. Hoover's ears are angled in such a way that it catches the light perfectly and reflects it into the camera. Considering that this is at NBB and no one is wearing a beret, then they are obviously out working and just grabbed a quick photo op. So it's probably just a bit of sweat on his ear lobe.

3. Mr. Hoover's uniform looks quite a bit looser than the other gentleman's top, and so it is possible that the pocket, and therefore the tape, are wider on Hoover's uniform. This would make it seem as if the patch was smaller.

And here's a little bit of free advise. It doesn't matter if you're a brand new cadet or a 20 year Col., we all try to treat each other with respect as we should. Eclipse addressed you frankly but respectfully, to which you answered back as if you were in the locker room with a group of friends.

A good rule of thumb to follow is to ask yourself, would I have said that to a LtCol, or any senior member for that matter, in person? No? Then I'd better not say it here.

I always use the rule of, "would I say this to my parents/grandparents?" I can tell you that if I'd have called any of my parents or grandparents a tool, I'd be in a world of hurt. I have to assume that the same would be true for you.

[Devil Doc]

So, According to this Cadet,

If we were never a Cadet oursleves we dont have the same respect, priveledges and rights, as SMs who was a Cadet?

This may be an "Unofficial CAP Forum" but these members on here have been in CAP longer than
I have been Alive, so I respect them regardless of there rank.

[tribalelder]

First, my fellow grownups, we were 17 and knew everything once.

In ancient times - late 60's /early 70's if I recall, when the dog patch was the only E/S patch, it was available in 2 sizes. The small was intended for use on a baseball cap. The t-34 E/S patch was, during a part of the bookstore era, also available as a reflectorized decal, with the upper row of text larger and upper text boxed bumped out with corners on it, for application to hard hats or helmet liners.

Don't recall a small version of T-34 patch.

[Storm Chaser]

There's a slightly smaller version of the airplane patch, with more rounded edges. I've only seen old patches, so I'm not sure if the patch evolved in size over time or if it was manufactured by third party vendors. Either way, the one by Vanguard is the official one as it stands now.

[Sapper168]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

Civil Air Patrol Core Values- Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect

Learn to Lead Vol 1, pg9 -  The Core Values are the four basic qualities CAP expects all members to display at all times: Integrity First, Volunteer Service, Excellence in All We Do, and Respect.

Hate to say it but the CADET should know this if he has his Wright Brothers.  If he doesn't someone dropped the ball somewhere. Then again what do I know only a Technician rating in CP. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

Hooooooooooooboy!


Take a look at my rack, cadet.


You may recognize something. But guess what. While you were prowling Eclipses rack for a Mitchell or higher, you clearly missed the numerous higher CAP awards. Most of which would sit higher in precedence than a Spaatz award would.

Also, as I have been a cadet I guess I get to talk down to the computer, right?


Well guess what. Eclipse called me cadet many times in my life. Probably more than you've been called a cadet so far in CAP. When I was at your grade, Eclipse already knew the Cadet Program better than I did. And that was oh just short of 10 years ago. Today I'm one of those SMs who WIWAC a lot. But if there is ONE thing I know, it is the fact that to be a Deputy Commander of Cadets, and to attain the Master Rating in Cadet Programs involves so much more broad knowledge of the cadet program than even Spaatz cadets have that there is simply no competition. I've been an active SM working with cadets for a year and a half. Getting the Senior rating in Cadet Programs is actually not a cakewalk. Not to mention the Master rating.


So the next time you decide to seek out a Mitchell ribbon on someone's uniform, maybe take a look up north for other awards, take a stroll down south and peek at their CP badge if they have one. Never assume anything from what you see a SM wear, and certainly never think that what you displayed here was appropriate for "just an online forum" or in real life.

[C/2d Lt]

Is there an Emergency Service Patch that is authorized for the blues uniform?

[Eclipse]

Is there an Emergency Service Patch that is authorized for the blues uniform?

No.

No CAP patches of any kind are worn on the USAF-Style blues.

[lordmonar]

Is there an Emergency Service Patch that is authorized for the blues uniform?

The is an ES badge for the blues....but IIRC only seniors can earn it.

[Hawk200]

According to 35-6, page 2, para. 2a: "Note: Cadets can earn the Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge as they can complete all of the requirements for this rating, though they cannot officially receive the Technician Rating until they become a senior member."

They can earn it, but don't get the specialty track as a cadet. Most of the cadets that I've seen legitimately wearing it (IOW not just putting it on because they thought it was the equivalent of the ES patch on blues) were all older cadets, most very close to mandatory senior transition.

[C/2d Lt]

The the emergency services badge and patch are two different things?

[JeffDG]

The the emergency services badge and patch are two different things?

Absolutely.

The patch may be authorized for anyone who has any ES Qualification beyond GES.

The badge is primarily for senior members who have attained at least a "TECHNICIAN" rating in the ES Specialty track, however, as has been noted, cadets who meet the same requirements may be eligibile for the badge as well.

Both the patch and the badge must be requested when eligible, and they go through OpsQuals for approval at unit, group and wing.

[jeders]

The the emergency services badge and patch are two different things?

Yes. The patch mearly requires you to be GES qual'd plus one additional requirement. The badge requires several additional service requirements.

When I was a young cadet, I was told by a senior member I trusted on thesematters that they were equivelant, and that I should wear the badge on my blues. I was soon corrected when another more knowledgeable senior member saw it.

[Eclipse]

Assuming you turn senior, you have to remove the badge until you earn the rating as a senior.

[Storm Chaser]

Assuming you turn senior, you have to remove the badge until you earn the rating as a senior.

That's an interesting statement, but one that's not really supported by current regulations. Unlike the other specialty track badges, the ES badge is an ES Award with its own separate approval process. What happens when a cadet earns this badge, it's approved and recorded in eServices, and then the cadet becomes a senior member? Is this ES Award automatically removed from Ops Quals? I don't know the answer to that for sure, but I would venture to say that probably not. CAPR 35-6 doesn't state that the cadet loses the badge, but that they don't receive the technician rating.

An analogy to this (although not a perfect one), is cadets who earn the senior ground team badge by completing an authorized advanced GSAR course. They don't lose the badge when they turn 18 if they don't become GTLs. They also don't automatically become GTLs just because they turn 18 and have previously earned the senior GT badge.

[Storm Chaser]

The is an ES badge for the blues....but IIRC only seniors can earn it.

Cadets may earn the ES, Safety and Communications badges, although as stated they cannot earn the appropriate technician rating, which is reserved for senior members.

[Eclipse]

It is >not< recorded in eServices, and for that matter, none of the specialty badges are recorded in eservices, only the
specialty-track level completion is recorded in the training section.

The cadet earns the badge, not the rating.

It is not analogous to a qualification badge like GTL, since they cadets eligible for the qualification, which brings with it the badge.

See this KB article:  http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/562/kw/cadets%20specialty%20track

Are Cadets authorized to wear specialty track badges? If so, what are the requirements for earning these badges?

Yes cadets can earn and wear certain specialty badges although they do not receive the technician rating until they complete the requirements as senior members. There are some positions which have age limitations which would prohibit cadets from holding certain jobs. See the regulations below for more specific details.

See  CAPR 35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges 17 Aug 2002.
This regulation defines the requirements and outlines procedures for the award of CAP Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges.

Paragraph 2. Requirements for Award of Emergency Services (ES) Qualification Badges:
a. CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge: Complete all requirements of CAPP 213, Emergency Services Officer-Specialty Track Study Guide, Technician Rating. Note: Cadets can earn the Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge as they can complete all of the requirements for this rating, though they cannot officially receive the Technician Rating until they become a senior member.

Also see  CAPR 60-3 CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions 26 December 2012 .
This regulation prescribes concepts, policies, and standards that govern all Civil Air Patrol (CAP) supervisory, ground, and flight personnel in the training, qualification, and execution of CAP operational missions.

See also: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1144

And the comment in bold below:

Change: CAPP 227  Information Technology Officer Specialty Track Study Guide
Cadets who serve as Cadet Information Technology Officers (C/ITO) are not eligible to earn the IT specialty rating. However, those cadets who serve in this capacity for a minimum of one year and complete the required duties may be authorized to wear the basic IT Specialty Badge for the duration of their cadet membership upon approval of their wing commander (authority may be delegated). The authority to wear the badge may be documented by completion of a CAPF 2a, Request for and Approval of Personnel Actions, and retained in the cadet's personnel file. The wear of the badge as a cadet does not translate to the earned technician rating once a cadet becomes a senior member. Cadets who become senior members will need to complete all of the requirements established at the time that they complete the training as a senior member.[/b]

[johnnyb47]

OPS Quals, ES Awards.
All three ES Badges are listed with check boxes.
One would imagine that this is to force the same approval process as the GTM Badges or ES Patches.
Is it used now? Or just something in place for a future development?

[Eclipse]

I'm not saying that applicable work already completed evaporates, only that as a cadet you can get the badge without the rating, but
not as a senior.

I can't post the full text of the Tech rating from CAPP 213, because for some bizarre reason it's text-copy protected, but
the only thing that would really need to be "redone", would be being assigned as ESO or A/ESO, and serve for a year.

The rest of the work, presumably, would be documented, but for at least a year, and until the Tech is approved, the badge
goes back in the jewelry box.