2B or Not 2B? That is the question.

[majdomke]

Ok folks, here's a question to pose to the membership...

What are the pros/cons of 2B'ing a member for reason versus just letting them fall off the roster when their membership expires?

What about members who say they quit, should we take the time and do a 2B or just allow their membership to lapse?

The reason I ask, I wondered if members not renewing versus being removed had a bearing oh how the squadron was evaluated. Is there someone looking at squadrons and evaluating them on how many members renew each year? I know it takes effort to 2B someone, but if they quit wouldn't it just be better to do the paperwork and not look bad when they fail to renew? Your input is appreciated...

[RiverAux]

Personally, I've always thought it is too much trouble to 2b them if the only reason is inactivity.  However, in my old unit I generally kept our local practice of transfering inactive seniors to the ghost squadron, but inactive cadets often got 2bs. 

Still don't think it was worth the time, but it made my admin officer and DCC happy. 

[majdomke]

Before anyone starts to question my process, I wanted to be clear that I do follow the regulations regarding termination of membership. If they resign, that makes it easy. If they fail to maintain satisfactory progress or attend meetings, I do follow the process and send the letter of my intent.

[Camas]

I've never known of anyone who has been "2B'd". As stated members who are ineffective, bored or otherwise contributing nothing to the program either drop off or, in many cases, get transferred to the ghost squadron. Interesting question though.

[heliodoc]

^^

Neither have I.  But without knowing details of the "infraction, "  2b if one likes doing the paperwork

Does this person really deserve it or are there some questions OTHER than uniform wear that NEED to addressed?

[RiverAux]

The one advantage to 2bing inactive members is that it deprives them of the opportunity to embarrass CAP by doing something stupid in our name or uniform.  Well, it may not make it impossible, but at least it gives us the ability to say, "hey, we kicked them out before they wore their uniform at an airplane crash scene and tried to order around the sheriff's deputies". 

[LtCol057]

I've started telling all members that say they're quiting, to put it in writing for my files.  As soon as I get the written resignation, I complete the 2b, just for the records and to CYA.

[MIKE]

I think the intent was for people who quit to actually go through the formal process of resignation, but for the vast majority who will just drop off the MML at the end of their membership year or be inactive for a few and then drop off... it is an unnecessary formality.  If someone rage quits or you have reason to suspect they will cause trouble while inactive, it seems like a good idea though.

[Gunner C]

I've never 2B'd anyone but came very close.  That's extreme punishment and is appropriate for extreme cases.

If someone is an EXTREME  idiot, then it's best to throw them out.  If you let their membership expire, then they'll just come back down the road in someone else's unit.

[lordmonar]

Okay....

Here are some of the repercussions of a 2b.

If you 2b them they can't re-join CAP (or it makes it much harder for them in the future).

So if some guy screwed the pooch and you are weighing to 2b or just let his membership laps....you got to ask yourself....do I want this guy joining up in another unit in six months or a 2 years from now.

So the same applies to those ghost members......you have not seen them for six months and you think of 2bing them to get them off the roster.....it may make it harder for them to rejoin once they have time to devote to CAP.

If they quit because you got in their case about something......well.....again you got to ask....do I not want this guy in CAP....or do I just not want him in my squadron.

Depending on how you answer these question will drive what actions you should take.

Letting someone's membership laps could be just transfering the problem to another squadron.  2bing someone is forever.  If there is any chance that they may come back or you would want them back....don't 2b them.

[majdomke]

I can't believe 2B'ing someone and checking the box that they resigned would have any negative effect on them joining CAP in the future. Also, Gunner C, 2B is not always a negative thing, especially if they resign. It's more of a formality and to make sure they get off the roster.

[smj58501]

I 2B'ed two cadets from my squadron and was part of 2B'ing one senior from another squadron. All three cases were for cause vs. taking the easy way out and putting down resignation. It isn't fun and its a last resort, but I have no regrets. Instead, I felt it was a moral/ ethical imperative to pull the trigger.

I will not go into details on each case because its not important. Due process was provided for in each.

In the case of the senior member, he was downright dangerous and we needed to ensure, for the good of CAP, he did not pop up on someone elses manning document a few months later. Its just not good business to allow that to happen.

In the case of the cadets, we wanted to ensure that they never got the same credit for signing up for the program on a college app/ job/ internship some day that our hardworking, dedicated cadets do. Its always possible this would not be checked out, but if it was we wanted to ensure they could not be given the same consideration.

As stated, no regrets even to this day. Its all part of manning up and taking care of your business, and the organization was noticeably better after it was done.

[brasda91]

I 2B'd a cadet last year because he was making inappropiate comments and the parents of the other cadets were ready to pull their cadets out of the unit.

Anyhow, I just had a cadet and senior (mom) roll off the roster.  I knew they weren't going to be active members.  Neither one caused us any shame, so no reason to 2B either one of them.  Who knows, in a year or two, their personal life may change to where they can be active members in the squadron and there won't be any 2B paperwork to have to overcome.

If the member/s is not going to be a problem, let them roll off.

[IceNine]

If they are otherwise a good fella just transfer them to 000

If they have committed a terminable offence, 2B

It really is a simple answer.  Wings are not evaluated on the amount of people in their 000 (ghost) holding squadron.  Units are however evaluated on all of their membership every 3 years with the SUI.

[FW]

If you are not worried about your unit charter, 2b'ing a member who is inactive for months with no probability of return or, resigns is a "clerical" device for removing them from the MML.  If the member wants to rejoin, it is not a problem at all.  There are no roadblocks at NHQ or at wing (unless the wing/cc "flags" the name).  Denpending on the situation, notifying a member of the impending action may get them active again.  IMHO, I agree, it is much easier to just let their membership lapse.

However, if you 2b a member for cause.  There are a whole bunch of repercussions.  If the 2B holds, the former member can not return/rejoin unless the Wing/CC allows it.  If the 2b fails on appeal, the member can become a royal PITA.  This should not be done lightly; appeals to higher authority means more work and stress.  If it needs doing.... do it right.

[RiverAux]

Units are however evaluated on all of their membership every 3 years with the SUI.

Technically its every year.  If you don't meet the minimums you run the risk of getting deactivated. 

[IceNine]

While not the direction I was headed you just proved my point further.

The Wing Commander does a charter review every year to ensure minimums are met for your charter.

By having empty shirts to fill the extra spots you are just delaying the inevitable.  If you are getting to the bottom of the min then its time to re-evaluate your recruiting/retention plan, or accept the downgrade or revoked charter.

I hate to see it happen too but I hate units that misrepresent themselves even worse.

All to often you hear units say " We are the biggest in the wing"  but when you look at their active roster they are closer to the smallest.

[RiverAux]

I definetely agree that keeping people on for that sort of reason isn't "right" though it isn't really "wrong" either.  Its not like they're hiding anything as their superiors know the score. 

[Eclipse]

I can't believe 2B'ing someone and checking the box that they resigned would have any negative effect on them joining CAP in the future. Also, Gunner C, 2B is not always a negative thing, especially if they resign. It's more of a formality and to make sure they get off the roster.

A 2b that indicates voluntary resignation has no future membership repercussion(s).  Only adverse member actions cause issues down the road.

With the 000 option on the table, I don't think there's any reason to go through the hassle of a 2b for inactivity.  For whatever reason, duty, loyalty, nostalgia, etc., this person has continued to write their check every year.  While it means nothing to most units, the wing is likely still getting their annual dues.

000 them, give their jackets to wing and move on to other things - your roster is normalized, you can look people in the eye in regards to charter status, and you haven't deprived you wing of any revenue.

[majdomke]

Apart from the SUI, is there anything else that monitors retention rates such as squadron awards? Of course I'm on the cadet side so I can understand members who pay membership year after year but aren't active. That's not too likely on my side. I generally have cadets who disappear for several months and I need to clean up. After numerous phone calls and emails, I mail them the form letter of my intent to 2B them. This generally gets their attention. With most, the finally return the email or phone calls saying they decided to quit. The rest I never hear from and on rare occasions I actually get someone to come back. It would seems odd that if someone does tell me they quit they later receive a renewal notice from NHQ. Another part of my question. If they say they quit, then later receive the renewal, don't they wonder why? I'm really more interested in cleaning out the MML of dead weight and also concerned with award possibilities. Thanks guys for all the great advice and ideas.