CAWG aircrews will require orange safety vest.

[simon]

If you are part of a CAP aircrew in California and you need to locate an ELT on an airfield, you will need to purchase and wear an ANSI Class 2 Orange Safety Vest while looking for the ELT.

I just received the confirmation from Paul Saba: "...looking for an ELT at an airport DOES require the wear of a vest..."

I am not sure when the new safety regulations kick in. I am posting this so aircrews realize they may need them and can get in on the CAP discounted $10 price.

[Thrashed]

Anyone on any ramp of any airport outside the USA is required to wear a safety vest.  ICAO rules.  I'm not sure why USA doesn't require it.

[Eclipse]

Wait - what has changed? 

Wouldn't you already have a vest on when you change from being on the aircrew to being UDF? 

[simon]

Eclipse, are you saying that locating an ELT on an airport by an aircrew has always required a vest?

Reference?

[PWK-GT]

Silencing beacon = UDF rating = prescribed UDF gear = safety vest.

[EMT-83]

Since this is California, does the vest have to be Nomex?

[simon]

Silencing beacon = UDF rating

Really?

Why is locating and silencing a beacon part of the Mission Pilot SQTR?

[Eclipse]

Why is locating and silencing a beacon part of the Mission Pilot SQTR?

Probably to familiarize the MP's with the concept, not to encourage them to become 1-man ES rambos.

The regs are what they are, however once you are walking around on the ground, you are no longer an "aircrew" (IMHO).

[simon]

No.

A mission pilot is ABSOLUTELY allowed to walk around airport property to locate an ELT.

MP's must complete task O-2007.

From the Aircraft and Flightline Task NES Curriculum: "O-2007: If you don't have a ground crew and you have determined the ELT signal is coming from an airfield, you can land and find the offending aircraft."

[ol'fido]

A reasonable precaution at some airports. At our local airport, however, you are more likely to be run over by a deer or Deere(John Deere that is) than an aircraft or vehicle.

[vento]

Interesting, I read the e-mail from Capt Saba as well and I didn't see it mention anything about aircrew at this time. However, I think it is a good idea for aircrew to have the orange vest (I carry mine as part of survival gear).

And to those who are interested, it's not NOMEX, even in CAWG.   

Dear CAWG Folks,

Don't miss this excellent chance to purchase you ANSI Compliant & Federally Required Safety Vest at a dramatically reduced price!!! 

In an effort to assist our units & membership in complying with Federal DOT Regulations and coming changes to the CAP Safety Program, California Wing has made a bulk purchase of ANSI Class 2 Orange Safety Vests.  These personalized vests will be available for purchase and will be delivered at the CAWG Conference.  Cost of Public Safety vests can be upwards of $20/vest, but because of our bulk purchase and CAWG subsidizing part of the costs, these vests will be available for $10/vest.  These vests are ANSI-ISEA 207-2006 compliant and meet the Federal 23 CFR 634 requirements.  Units who have vests already need to ensure they meet these new requirements.  All members who participate in the following require the wear of ANSI Class 2 Safety Vests or reflective safety vests:

·         Anyone on or near a federal-aid roadway (all highways, roads, streets, ramps, or alleys that may have received funding from the federal government)

·         Anyone participating on or near a flightline performing flightline duties (security, marshalling, etc...)

·         At any time units are drilling on or near a roadway where cars may be present

·         During Ground Team or UDF activities identified by CAP Regulations

Please take this opportunity to purchase your Custom CAP ANSI Class 2 Orange Safety Vest.  Units may make a bulk purchase or individuals may purchase vests (Squadrons urged to take orders from members and place a single order).

Safety Vest Specs:

·         Orange Vest with Lime Green/Silver 2 tone reflective stripes.

·         Non-Mesh, poly-cotton blend material.

·         Zippered front closure.

·         2 Front Pockets with 1 inside Pocket.

·         "Civil Air Patrol" on the Back and "CAP" on left breast.

·         Meets ANSI/ISEA 207-2006 Requirements.

·         Meets 23 CFR 634 Requirements.

·         Available in Med, Large, XL, 2XL & 3XL.

·         Cost only $10



Sincerely,

Paul Saba, Capt., CAP

CAWGsafetyvests@yahoo.com

[simon]

Vento, while I agree that aircrews were not mentioned (I suspect we all received the email), my request for clarification from Paul arose through reading the requirements. Paul's response, part of which I quoted, seemed to say yes, we will need to wear them.

My view is that the orange vest, in of itself, isn't a bad thing. And $10 won't break the bank. To be fair, it makes you more visible to traffic. If an airport employee or owner sees somebody creeping around hangars in the middle of the night, at least the reflective vest says you aren't trying to hide. But I also do not think it is really necessary to have hundreds of aircrew members who might DF an ELT on an airport maybe once a year, get a vest. I'd just be disappointed to have the situation where at 2am in the morning, an aircrew had determined that an ELT was going off on an airport and couldn't even look for it because they didn't have a vest.

If I sound a little cynical about the need to have vest to DF an ELT, it's probably just my aversion to the whole nanny state thing versus plain common sense. But something tells me I am fighting the tide. And in a couple of other countries I have noticed that yes, pretty much everyone on the flight line has reflective vests.

[Eclipse]

Everyone else DF'ing needs to be in a vest, why should an A/C be any different?

[a2capt]

The vest is a reasonable answer, the Caltrans like orange shirt is just more complication and expense. Especially with the niche area of use it can "officially" worn. To do anything else requires a top swap. That stupid orange shirt is someones pet project being pushed through again. I thought uniform changes had to come from the top down, not injected mid-stream.

[bosshawk]

We could all wear orange flight suits and sew reflective tape to the shoulders and back.  Takes care of wearing nomex and having a reflective garment at the same time.  This ridiculous new policy of wearing vests on the flight line is typical of people who have no operational experience ruling the roost.

[IceNine]

Is it only ridiculous because it includes aircrews now? 

Or do you disagree with the Flight Line people and other ground folks being required to wear them as a standard?

[Smokey]

The next step will be a beanie with a flashing red light on top and a Rudolph nose.

It's gettin' so that ya can't do a thing if you ain't got  the bling!  DO WOP DO WOP....

C'mon sing along...

[jimmydeanno]

I don't understand why people make such a big deal about wearing a vest.  It's kind of like complaining about wearing safety glasses when working with a table saw.  Why wouldn't you want to wear one? 

I for one, take a bit of comfort knowing that someone will be able to see me in the dark, or light, instead of hitting me.  Then again, I suppose we have to have requirements to wear them because people are afraid of ruining their hard-kewl factor and wouldn't otherwise.

[simon]

Our squadron took the pragmatic approach of ordering five of varying sized and keeping them at the squadron for flight crews.

I broke down and ordered one, taking the view that, like O2, if you want to be sure it is there and ready to use, bring your own.

Just more stuff for the ever growing go bag...

[a2capt]

I'd be more inclined to step up to the plate and get one if it meant that I could use it to fulfill the "orange look" that CAWG has imposed on their G/UDF teams. A reflective vest has a lot more uses than a niche specific uniform shirt that you have to carry another one anyway as you can really only wear it when actually performing the mission.

In my  case, the only uniform combinations I have are all the AF style ones. So that eliminates my ability to participate as a part of a UDF mission unless I stay someplace else and do all the map work via the other end of a radio/phone link.

The CAWG 39-1 says I have to use one of three uniform combinations that I don't have, or discover the Fountain of Youth, to use one of the ones I do have.