CAP Chain of Command

[Eclipse]

Bob,

not to nitpick an otherwise excellent post, but

A wing-level DCP, for example, has no authority to wander around the wing inserting his opinion about random squadrons just because
he's bored that night and decide to do a "spot check".

His job is coordinating plans, programs, activities, and compliance at the wing level, and if he becomes aware of an issue, there's a protocol to suggest a fix downstream, which the respective commanders then have the option to follow, or not.

The wing DCP undoubtedly has the authority (and responsiblity) to wander around the wing and offer her/his opinion.  Hopefully that doesn't happen just because the DCP is bored, but as part of a robust unit visitation program that allows the DCP to be in touch with units in the field and spread best practices from unit to unit.

Sure, the DCP also is in charge of the wing-level CP administrivia, but the DCP will inevitiably fail to excel if they don't get out of their office and get out to the units and activities on a regular basis.

But we agree that the DCP is a (critical) staffer with no inherent command authority over supported commanders.

Ned,

As usual, we're basically in agreement.  The problem, of course, comes when the "opinion" is asserted as "authority", especially
when its over something subjective.

I grabbed DCP out of handy air, this applies to any staffer.

[RiverAux]

A squadron staff officer only has authority over one of their assistants in regards to how that person performs that assistant function.   So, the Squadron Personnel Officer can't tell the Assistant Personnel Officer that he cannot go to a SAREX, get promoted, or anything other than how to do that job.  But that job is only a fraction of what that member does in CAP, so in reality the staff officer doesn't have enough real authority to be considered in the general CAP chain of command. 

[lordmonar]

A squadron staff officer only has authority over one of their assistants in regards to how that person performs that assistant function.   So, the Squadron Personnel Officer can't tell the Assistant Personnel Officer that he cannot go to a SAREX, get promoted, or anything other than how to do that job.  But that job is only a fraction of what that member does in CAP, so in reality the staff officer doesn't have enough real authority to be considered in the general CAP chain of command.

In that sense then only the commander is in anyone's chain of command.

Promotion authority is not the only factor when determining chain of command.

[RiverAux]

In that sense then only the commander is in anyone's chain of command.

Exactly what the thread is about. 
Situational authority abounds in CAP, but thats a different story.

[Eclipse]

In that sense then only the commander is in anyone's chain of command.

Correct.

Nothing happens in a CAP unit that is not the responsibility of the commander, and everything that does happen is with his blessing.

[lordmonar]

In that sense then only the commander is in anyone's chain of command.

Correct.

Nothing happens in a CAP unit that is not the responsibility of the commander, and everything that does happen is with his blessing.

Same is true in an AD USAF unit....but I had a chain of command that included people below the commander.

Unity of command.....that is everyone only has one boss....what we usually call the "chain".

If you give someone a job and give them subordinate.....the subordinates are below you in the chain.  If they are not....then you have taken away my authority to do the job.  Sure....I can't promote anyone.....but I am still their supervisor and the next link in their chain of command.

[RiverAux]

Well, thats the military, not CAP. 

A CAP member has many bosses and who that boss is depends on what that CAP member is doing at that specific point in time.  The only common denominator is that only the squadron/group/wing commander or IC has any real authority. 

Keep in mind that it is quite common for CAP members to have multiple jobs at the squadron level.  So, at the same time I could be the Operations Officer reporting to the Deputy Commander for Seniors and I can also be the Deputy Administrative Officer reporting to the Administrative Officer. 

[Thom]

Well, since I just recently finished the Officer Basic Course (replacement for ECI-13) and it had a nice module entirely devoted to CAP Chain of Command, how about we reference this 'CAP approved' and 'peer reviewed' materiel?

Quoting from the OBC Lesson Content from this point on:



2. Explain the difference between line and staff officers.
Line officers hold a position in the chain of command. Their titles usually end in the word Commander. They have the right to direct and discipline subordinates.  Their authority does not extend beyond their part of the organization (Cote, 1977). They set policy and make decisions for their command within the parameters of CAP regulations. In business these people would be the president or department head.

Staff Officers provide assistance, counsel or services to others but do not have the right to direct and discipline. (Cote, 1977) The commander cannot be involved in the routine work in all departments nor can they be expected to be experts in all areas.  Staff officers are expected to do those things in their department only.  Staff officers are in the position to recommend policy and influence decisions through expertise and persuasions.  In a business these people would be the accountant or programmer.

A CAP example of this would be the Group Public Affairs Officer (PAO) wanting to see all press releases before they go out to the press.  He can recommend it to the squadron PAOs but not require it.  He can also recommend the policy to the Wing or Group Commander who has the authority to order it/make it policy.  If the Wing or Group Commander sets the policy, the Squadron Commanders in that wing/group (but not neighboring groups) are compelled to tell their PAO of the new policy and require them to follow it.

Any member may consult with their counterpart at the next higher headquarters for assistance, guidance, counsel, advice, training or services directly but they can not order you to do something. You should be mindful that they will tell you how things get done (the policy or regulation) and most likely will be the person who will process the task you want to accomplish.   So let's say you are the Squadron Finance Officer and the Wing  Director of Finance says, "Wing only processes requests for reimbursement on Tuesdays."  (He is advising you of the policy set by the Wing Commander.) You can ask them how long it takes to get things to them by mail or why Tuesdays, but if it arrives on Wednesday you will wait a week.

There are three ways officers often get themselves into trouble with authority. First, they try to extend line authority beyond their area of command. They give direction to people who are not under their authority or direct them to violate some regulation or policy.  For example, a Ground Team Leader and his team are filling sandbags outside a power plant in order to protect it from rising waters.  When asked if CAP can provide more help, he thinks about the three ground teams that had yet to be dispatched when his team left two hours ago.  He says, "Sure I can get three more teams here in an hour".  The decision to accept a mission is up to the Incident Commander (IC) and which resources to commit to the mission are made by the IC in consultation with the staff.  The Ground Team Leader overstepped his authority. You only have authority over those who report to you on the organizational chart and their subordinates   (CAPR 20-1).   You do not have the authority to order someone to violate the regulations.

The second most common way to get in trouble is staff officers trying to use line officer authority.  They try to reassign resources or make policy without approval of their commander or order commanders from subordinate units to do something.   For example, the Operations Officer reassigns an aircraft to a different unit and orders the losing commander to fly it 50 miles to the new airport and drive back.  The Operations Officer is misusing line authority.  It is the Wing Commander who assigns aircraft to units and the Operations Officer then coordinates between the losing and gaining commanders for the delivery of the aircraft.

The last way officers get in trouble is when they try to do something outside their area.  A classic example is when the Communications Officer tells the Finance Officer to write a check so she can be reimbursed for batteries for the radio.  It is the Commander's job to tell the Finance Officer they have pre-approved the expenditure and the Supply Officer's job to buy the batteries.

Remember, staff officers advise; line officers exercise authority and that authority has limits. Know your role and its limits.

[lordmonar]

Thom,

That is correct....and nothing I have said contradicts what the OBC says.

The question was....what is the chain of command.

Assuming that SM New Guy is assigned as an assistant personnel officer in the Homer J. Simpson Composite Squadron.

His chain of command is:

Him Assailant Personnel Officer
1st Lt Grundy, Personnel Officer
Capt Sharpie, Deputy Commander for Seniors
Major Highspeed, Commander H.J. Simpson Composite Squadron
Lt Col Lightyear, Commander Group 1
Col Skywalker, Commander XX Wing
Col Kenobie, Commander XX Region
Maj Gen Courter, Commander CAP

Lt Grundy is a line officer in the chain of command.  He has authority over all of his subordinates.  He is also a staff officer in the H.J. Simpson Composite Squadron and as such has no authority over anyone else in the squadron except his personnel staff.

I can't really believe that we are having this discussion....this is really basic stuff.

The debate about line officers VS staff officers is usually about higher echelon staff officers.

When the Wing Personnel Officer start dictating policy down to the groups and squadrons, that is a problem.  When a squadron staff officer bypasses the chain to go to the group staff officer for action....that is a problem.  But the wing Assailant Cadet Program guy works for the wing Director of Cadet Programs.  The DCP is in his chain of command.

Now granted.....often individual members in CAP may have several bosses....but that is because they wear several hats.   The Assistant Squadron Personnel Officer, may also be a SAR/DR pilot.  So he may fall under the Personell Officer and/or the Squadron Operations Officer.  Even if neither one of these staff officers have any "command" authority, they are still in his chain of command.  We can eliminate this duel path by ensuring that we do not give two jobs to any one individual (like that is going to happen) .

[Spike]

I would really love to get on the OBC course and see what is being presented.  However, since I get ECI 13 over 12 years ago, can't do it. 

[RiverAux]

Lt Grundy is a line officer in the chain of command.  He has authority over all of his subordinates.  He is also a staff officer in the H.J. Simpson Composite Squadron and as such has no authority over anyone else in the squadron except his personnel staff.

I can't really believe that we are having this discussion....this is really basic stuff.

Gee, seems to be that CAP disagrees with you about this.  Lt. Grundy only has authority over Him in regards to personnel department issues only.  If this was the military or just about any other job you would be correct.  But in CAP it isn't the case. 

[Thom]

I would really love to get on the OBC course and see what is being presented.  However, since I get ECI 13 over 12 years ago, can't do it.

Well, you can't take the tests, but you can certainly read all of the course materials.  They are available as PDF files at the bottom of the course information page, here:

http://www.capmembers.com/cap_university/officer_basic_course.cfm

You can freely download all of them and read through them just like you were taking the OBC for real.

Thom

[lordmonar]

Lt Grundy is a line officer in the chain of command.  He has authority over all of his subordinates.  He is also a staff officer in the H.J. Simpson Composite Squadron and as such has no authority over anyone else in the squadron except his personnel staff.

I can't really believe that we are having this discussion....this is really basic stuff.

Gee, seems to be that CAP disagrees with you about this.  Lt. Grundy only has authority over Him in regards to personnel department issues only.  If this was the military or just about any other job you would be correct.  But in CAP it isn't the case.

Then why do we even bother to teach the concept of chain of command?  How can new officers learn about authority and responsibility if this vital precept of command authority is simply ignored?

CAP is not the military....but the chain of command is not a simple military only concept.  Lines of authority have to be established or leaders and followers cannot function.

Lt Grundy has the authority of the program placed under him as a staff officer.....and the people under him as line officer.

I think that is the point that you are missing.  You can be both a line officer and a staff officer at the same time.
I don't think CAP disagrees with this concept so much as you are misreading the lesson being taught in OBC.

As a unit level staff officer your chain is through your deputy commander and commander.....NOT up the group and wing chain through the staff officers.  But as a staff officer who actually supervises people you are also a line officer with the command authority that goes with it.

As I say this is a vital principle....without it all of our command and control concepts go out the door.....up to and including the authority of GTLs, PICs, Mission base staff and ICs.  Not to mention that the entire cadet program is designed abound the concept of the chain of command.  By your interpretation of the chain of Command The cadet chain of command is from him to the Deputy Command for Cadets, Unit Commander.....the entire cadet chain is bypassed because they have not authority to promote or discipline.

[RiverAux]

We do teach it except that CAP's version of a line officer is different.

Lt. Grundy is only a staff officer, he is not a line officer in CAP World. 

The text from the OBC seems to explains CAP's view pretty well. 

Yes, it conflicts with how things are done in other organizations, but thats the way it is. 

[lordmonar]

One more thing about CAP that I am just going to ignore. 

[CadetProgramGuy]

Wing staff is not in command of squadron staff.

I.E.  XXWG DCP does not command XXSQ DCP.

Nor is Squadron Cadet Programs officer in command over any of his assistants.

Command is Command and only the Commander is in charge.

[lordmonar]

Wing staff is not in command of squadron staff.

I.E.  XXWG DCP does not command XXSQ DCP.

Nor is Squadron Cadet Programs officer in command over any of his assistants.

Command is Command and only the Commander is in charge.

So....your flight sergeants have no authority.....that's good I can't wait to tell my cadets.

[raivo]

Wing staff is not in command of squadron staff.

I.E.  XXWG DCP does not command XXSQ DCP.

Nor is Squadron Cadet Programs officer in command over any of his assistants.

Command is Command and only the Commander is in charge.

So....your flight sergeants have no authority.....that's good I can't wait to tell my cadets.

Whoa, straw-man.

This would be where delegation of authority comes in. The only person "officially" in charge at a squadron is the commander. However, people in positions of authority at the squadron derive their authority from the fact that the squadron commander has authorized them to command on his behalf, within their scope of responsibility - if their subordinates become insubordinates, the squadron commander will be coming down on them (the subordinates.)

According to the Air Force, my commander is the commander of my squadron, and not my flight commander. However, if I suddenly decide I don't want to listen to my flight commander, I'm going to find myself in service dress in the squadron commander's office real quick...

By the way, I'm a little confused by some of the posts in this thread - does CAP have a different definition of "line officer" than I'm used to?

[lordmonar]

Wing staff is not in command of squadron staff.

I.E.  XXWG DCP does not command XXSQ DCP.

Nor is Squadron Cadet Programs officer in command over any of his assistants.

Command is Command and only the Commander is in charge.

So....your flight sergeants have no authority.....that's good I can't wait to tell my cadets.

Whoa, straw-man.

This would be where delegation of authority comes in. The only person "officially" in charge at a squadron is the commander. However, people in positions of authority at the squadron derive their authority from the fact that the squadron commander has authorized them to command on his behalf, within their scope of responsibility - if their subordinates become insubordinates, the squadron commander will be coming down on them (the subordinates.)

According to the Air Force, my commander is the commander of my squadron, and not my flight commander. However, if I suddenly decide I don't want to listen to my flight commander, I'm going to find myself in service dress in the squadron commander's office real quick...

By the way, I'm a little confused by some of the posts in this thread - does CAP have a different definition of "line officer" than I'm used to?

Give the man a cigar!

Now what is the function difference between a flight sergeant's authority over the people assigned to him and a Squadron Personnel officers authority over the people assigned to him?

My point being there is no difference between C/AB Newguy's chain beginning with his element leader, through his flight sergeant, to his flight leader and on up.....and a new SM chain begging with the the staff officer in charge of his job area and going up from there.

The Line Officer/Staff Officer distinction only come in at higher echelons of command.  The Wing Cadet Programs Officer cannot dictate policy directly to squadron commanders or even worse squadron Cadet Program people because he is only a staff officer.  He does no command in his own name but must go through the wing commander. (i.e. he is not in the squadron's chain of command).  But at the same time the Wing Cadet Program Officer is a line officer to his wing Cadet Program Staff.

This is no different then the way the USAF does it.  MAJCOM A staff's do not command.  They advice the MAJCOM commander.  But they do wield command within their directorates.

[RiverAux]

I think there is a difference between how things work for cadets and for seniors in this area.  Cadets are actually organized more along the traditional lines and that flight commander is actually pretty much in charge of his flight.  Just as a Army squad leader is in charge of his squad.  That new cadet airman pretty much has to work through his flight leader for everything. 

However, that Asst. Personnel Officer only deals with the Personnel Officer on Personnel issues only, which is only a small part of that member's CAP life.   The Personnel Officer has absolutely no authority over him in any other area.