What is "playing soldier?"

[Trouble]

I still think it's all about balance.

D&C for seniors: unfortunately non-prior-service (mil or cadet) don't get much of it until the go to RSC-I think that's way too late.

Since we don't have a "CAP OTS" many members learn-as-they-go.  I'd hate to see that misinterpreted.

I've splashed it on other threads ad-nauseum, and I'll say it again: two cardinal rules of CAP membership are- Maintain your sense of perspective, and work within the organizational framework.

Regardless of the opinions of detractors, from within or without; regardless of which of our missions motivates you, keeping these rules close-to-heart within a framework of maturity and humility will keep your compass true, and you beyond reproach. 

Well said also. 

Though a CAP OTS might not be a bad thing. A series of weekend Sessions over the first 6 months of membership, with in-depth Level 1, CPPT, CAP REGs, instruction on uniform choices and mentoring on proper wear of the uniform choice of the particular member, CAP history, the minimum D&C required for formations, C&C etc.  At the same time the New Senior Member is getting OJT with their new assignment at the local unit, and they could event get mentoring focused for their new Squadron job during OTS as well.  Lets say One weekend a month for 6 months (might as well get use to it from the beginning) or a more user friendly schedule of one Day every 2 months, with e-mail correspondence and bulletin board participation, similar to how online college classes work.   

Just an Idea. hum... might shoot this idea up the chain and see if we can't do this at  Group level locally.......

[capchiro]

In my opinion, playing soldier is going over the top in such areas as having cadets "hit the wall" when an officer passes by and "dropping cadets" (push-ups) for punishment and in general attempting to take the program to the level of the military academies.  Such action is not part of CAP and may in fact be hazing or harassment.  I have been involved in both Warrant Officer Flight training and in OCS and CAP is neither of those either.  We are to attempt to bring our squadrons up to a level of operation that might parallel a good reserve or National Guard outfit and not to the level of the "Old Guard".  Perhaps "playing soldier" is also a reference to when we become more Army or Marines than Air Force.  The Air Force has always been a little lighter on the D&C and some leadership functions, perhaps because they have historically been dealing with higher educated, more intelligent personnel than the Army or Marines and have not found the need to have someone run around with their weapon over their head for an hour at a time?  I am not trying to start a rant, but the Air Force has always prided itself in being a more relaxed although better educated force and perhaps the fact that historically the Army and Marines got a percentage of their personnel through the draft and the Air Force has been voluntary throughout most of it's history has led to some of this.  Just some thoughts and observations.

[Skyray]

Having cadets "hit a brace" when I pass by serves a function at encampment, but having to acknowledge this military courtesy rapidly becomes a distraction at a real function (as opposed to a training function) like a SAR.

As O-Rex said, it is about balance.

[CAPLAW]

Being in AFROTC and being involved in an FTX, man did we feel out of place! 

[Stonewall]

In my opinion, playing soldier is going over the top in such areas as having cadets "hit the wall" when an officer passes by and "dropping cadets" (push-ups) for punishment and in general attempting to take the program to the level of the military academies.  Such action is not part of CAP and may in fact be hazing or harassment. 

I show up to my squadron about 50% of the time due to my rotating work schedule.  So at best, I'll show up to 2 meetings a month barring any personal obstacles.  Got a 1 year old too.  Anyway, last night, as I pass by a C/SSgt (with a high and tight), he snaps his heals and "hits the wall".  I flashed back 20 years to my dooley encampment.  Where did he get this from?  I look around at the other seniors and there's only 4 of us in blues while everyone else in the polo option.  It's okay, they're aircrew and comms folks    So where did this "hitting the wall" come from?  I'm guessing, somewhere at some time, in this cadet's history impressed upon him that this was a standard military custom.

Later, after he came to me and ask if I could head up a, and I quote", "Marine Corps style boot camp to prepare cadets for encampment", I explained to him a few things.  1.  No, and 2. where did you learn the hitting the wall thing.  His answer, "well that's what the real military does".  Seriously though, I did explain to him why it wouldn't be feasible.

Cadets are critically impressionable.  Almost to the point it is dangerous.  A former "playing soldier" senior member I ran off into once used to wear a survival knife upside down on his LBE, had a machete strapped to his pistol belt, and of course, the fingerless gloves with sleeves rolled up for the field.  You guessed it, he had a few cadets doing the same.

It's true, there are members "playing soldier".  Some of these people need direction, some need to be kicked out.  But by and large, CAP is not like this.  While we wear military style rank, lots of people use it, fire depts and police alike.  And yes, their rank coincides with a position and responsibility.  To an extent, CAP's rank follows suit, but not so much as the opposite.  You can be a squadron commander as a 1st Lt or as a Lt Col.  You can be a DCC as a Lt Col with a squadron commander (over you) who has a silver bar on his collar.  I can't change that, although I would if I could.  I was a senior member at age 20 and 2d Lt by 21.  Is that uncommon for the "real military".  I was a Lt Col at age 31.  Is that unrealistic compared to the military?  Absolutely.  Not unheard of, but basically unrealistic.  But the cool thing is, I'm not a military Lt Col, I'm a CAP Lt Col.  I don't think it's a big deal.  Some attempt to abuse rank but most don't.  Don't criticize or punish the majority because of the minority.  If it were closer to 1/4 or 1/3 of CAP that acted badly, I'd say we need a major push to change something.  But the fact is, it's few and far between and where we live, the minority has rights and privileges, but the majority rules.

[flyguy06]

 We are to attempt to bring our squadrons up to a level of operation that might parallel a good reserve or National Guard outfit and not to the level of the "Old Guard".  .

So what you're saying is the National Guard is NOT on the same level as the "Old Guard"? I think I'm insulted. I sure went to war ands I dont think the "Old Guard" does that.

Also, "hitting the wall" is not a military thing. Its a military academy thing. Again, two totally differant worlds.

[O-Rex]

Non prior military CAP members: Don't be intimidated by the "mystique" of former mil, or former cadets-each member, regardless of background, brings unique skills to the table.  After some years of active membership, the playing field levels somewhat.  The beauty of our diversity of CAP is that we can fill each other's gaps....

Prior Military: I once belonged to the fraternity of "we did this for real" (nudge-nudge-wink-wink) but after a while, I began to respond "yeah, maybe so, but here we are nonetheless, and If you were so good at it in your former life, then apply it here."   I enjoyed my time in the military, but it was not the be-all-end-all of my existence: memories fade, pictures yellow, and the stories get old.  Besides, there's still much to look forward to as a CAP member, and I'd like to the best is yet to be.  Experience is good, but you can't too tightly what was....

Former Cadets: I see a parallel between our cadet program and the service academies: both cadets enter a culture much different from what they are accustomed to.  I've seen new Mil 2nd Lt's fresh from academies that seemed a little out-of-sorts at the beginning; same with CAP members.  It all works out after a while. 

"Three per-centers"   this is the category of folks that see CAP as a shortcut to grandiose titles,  quick blingage, and a vehicle for inflated egos.  There is no sense of duty, responsibility, nor a desire to be a part of something bigger than one's self.  They are also bad to have around cadets. THESE ARE THE FOLKS THAT 'PLAY SOLDIER.' 97% of CAP suffers because of them.  Don't have time for them, would like to see them find some other outlet for their energies, and stop draining ours.

[Stonewall]

I sure went to war ands I dont think the "Old Guard" does that.

I sooo don't mean to veer off topic, but yes, the Old Guard does go to war.  Vietnam and since 9/11, they've pretty much had a company deployed for GWOT.  Yep, several folks wearing Old Guard patches on their right shoulder.

Learning a few D&C moves does not mean we're "playing soldier".  And of course, I would not advocate trying reach even a military basic training level of D&C for seniors, let along an Old Guard standard.  Heck, a lot of the what the Old Guard does isn't even standard drill, but an exageration of stadard D&C.  And no, I don't think because we expect seniors to learn some basic D&C moves means we're "playing soldier".  It's called getting with the program.

[Skyray]

I have "Been There; Done That" in the RM.  I flew my first airborne search in the Gulf of Mexico in 1963 looking for a U-2 that went missing over Cuba.  What I didn't know about airborne search would have filled a SAR Manual.  Or,  phrased another way, I didn't learn about airborne search techniques until CAP taught them to me in the late eighties.

Why does it seem that the "three per cent" always rise to the top?  Or is that just in Florida?

[BillB]

Hitting the wall has been around CAP since at least my first encampment as a cadet in 1947. It came directly from the Army OCS program and West Point.  Even in the real military I've seen it but lately it seems to be out of style. If you command an encampment, you'll find that 50% of the cadets come from Squadrons where they never learn customes and courtesies, or lack an understanding of drill and ceremonies. Why, because it's not practiced in their squadron which exists for ES or flying club activity. So many encampments have modified the "marine Corp boot camp" to meet CPPT and try to instill the knowledge lacking in the home Squadron. More often than not, they don't even know how the uniform(s) should be worn correctly.  So the cadet staff and senior staff have one week to teach the basics that squadrons don't seem to provide newer cadets.

[Major Carrales]

Joined CAP because it appealed to me as a place to serve my community in a unique way while I followed my calling, teaching.

There is a degree of ceremony and pride that comes with it.  I know that I have to know my stuff so that I can teach it to cadets, which, at first, was really difficult since I am not a "prior service" CAP Officer.


In my 9 years I have seen all sorts of CAP Officers, a mix of the good and the bad...

1) Those totally riding the wave for free flying, wearing a dirty golf shirt and shorts.

2) Aviators dedicated to flying who own CAP distinctive (white greys) and golf shirts; don;t know much drill et al, but are operations gurus.

3) Former cadets who are a little more formal than others, but not to a ridiculous level.  They report, salute and maintain C&C at a tolerable level, and rightly so, since ambiet elements such as that distinguish us as the USAF Aux.

4) Hardcore CAP Officers, more interested in drill et al...constantly unsatifyed with the lack of military structure.

5) ES gurus of all sorts, wear short sleeve "blues" to holiday functions, BDUs (two sets -work and "going out" pair)

6) CADETS

7) A swaggering blowhard who was a commander that did such damage to the unit it took three years to recover (including threatening to 2B members that missed meetings.)

8 ) People dedicated to CAP who save military courtesies for formallities and show up to offer their help at all other activities.  Baslically, Community servants who like CAP.  Many were "smurf suit clad" folks that wanted to contribute...desperately.  I was in a unit that actually turned these folks away...or off to CAP...because they were not flyers.

9) Ambitious ladder climbers looking to become COLONELS so focused on their upward rise that they fail to see they are Alpha hotels.

10) Flight suit clad good people who refrain from ground pounding...but liek to teach flying to who ever will listen.

[Skyray]

My best friend used to describe Plebe Summer as six weeks of super-hell so that when the regular hell starts it doesn't seem so bad.  The problem with CAP is that there is a continuing input of cadets, and no specific time to indoctrinate them.  I will gladly put up with the irritation of having to interrupt what I am doing to acknowledge the courtesy of some cadet bracing the bulkhead for me at an encampment, but during a squadron meeting it seems a little much.  I suspect that is why the seniors and cadets are supposed to meet on different nights in a composite squadron.

[capchiro]

In response to Flyguy06, don't get insulted with the reference to the National Guard.  The Air Force has had many competitions over the years where the National Guard has won mightily over the operational units. This has been attributed somewhat to the fact that the guard units have trained together and performed together for a longer period of time than the operational units that have personnel transferring in and out periodically.  There is no insult intended to Air Force Guard and Reserve units, but they do have a little more relaxed attitude than most active duty units.  I am not speaking of Army Guard units as they probably vary to reflect the unit and leadership and type of unit.  I would imagine Army Guard aviation units are more relaxed than a Guard infantry or artillery unit would be.  JMHO..

   

[RiverAux]

Acting like a soldier is ok.  Playing soldier is not. 

[Walkman]

Acting like a soldier is ok.  Playing soldier is not. 

Thanks for saying that. That makes me feel better, I was starting to feel like a wanna-be.

[Nomex Maximus]

Frankly, I had to shut off the computer to cool down.  The mods would have run out of padlocks if I had types after reading Nomex Maximus' comments.

I consider snide remarks like "Playing soldier" when one is talking about standing respectfully and properly in a formation for the colors or for one of the brothers or sisters getting an award, to be about as personally disrespectful as it gets.

I like the ceremony that accompanies service in the military.  I like going to a new unit, and knowing that the formation will be pretty much what eery other unit has.  It adds to a sense of teamwork, and belonging, and shared culture.

Then some zero days of active duty guy tells me that those values that we share are not his, and we are simply "Playing soldier."  He then wants to be a part of an auxiliary military service, but those of us who accept the values of that service are simply cretins, or children playing soldier.

I have to shut down again and have another drink.  I'm getting PO'ed again

John -

Take some deep breaths. Hold them. Let them out slowly. There, isn't that better?

Playing soldier.  My first encounter with CAP was about 20 years ago. I was at an airshow in St. Louis, driving in to the airport and noticing that some people (some who were children) were directing traffic and were wearing these funny looking uniforms. They were too young to be in the military and the uniforms were clearly different from the military so I knew they weren't Real Military. I also knew they weren't local law enforcement, so I wondered why they felt that they had some right to be telling me how and where to park my car. I now know that they were CAP members. But at the time, I could not help but think to myself how silly their uniforms looked to me. They aren't real soldiers but they are dressed up as such.

Now 20 years later I am wearing some of those same uniforms. I now know that the Air Force goes to great lengths to make sure that the uniform I wear is not the one that they wear. I am clearly not a member of the Air Force. I am not a soldier. Air Force officers and enlisted probably will not salute me as they know I am not "one of them". I am not trusted to carry a weapon, I am not trusted to fly into an Air Force airfield, I am not trusted to help out in time or need or war, I am only grudgingly allowed to take on the least glamourous and least important of details that the Air Force does not want to take on itself. But SOME of these details are in fact quite important and worthwhile - in particular the ES jobs. To a lesser extent the cadet stuff. (In fact I think the cadet stuff IS very important and I think the Air Force should not leave something like that to civilian volunteers but rather its better and more senior regular officers should be shouldering those tasks.)

When I recently got my uniforms put together and tried them on, my wife quite seriously asked if I wouldn't get into trouble for wearing something that looked like I was impersonating a soldier. I suspect that many people would have the same initial reaction to a CAP uniform. They know we aren't soldiers, but yet we go about dressed up like we were.

Playing soldier. As I have stated, I am not seen by either the Air Force nor by the general public and for that matter not even by CAP itself as a soldier. I am a civilian volunteer in a quasi-military "corporation"  or "military auxiliary" (whatever the hell that is) and not either a member of the armed forces nor a member of law enforcement. I am not trusted to carry or use a weapon, not trusted to "assist" law enforcement, and not trusted to stand in the place of a member of the armed forces. In fact the job I do is based on skills I have gained as a civilian - the ability to fly an airplane. That skill has nothing whatsoever to do with being a member of the military. My abilities in the areas of good aeronautical decision making and effective control of an airplane are not in the slightest bit enhanced by practicing how to salute, or how to stand at attention or how to parade about like the soldier that I am not.

So when someone tries to tell me that we need to be able to parade about a parking lot and salute the flag and Air Force officers, well, I sort of think that has nothing to do with anything I am here to do. Or that needs to be done by me or anyone else in CAP. It is playing soldier. I am not impressed by the cadet who can show off his marching skills. I am, however, impressed by the cadet who can show me he understands things like patriotic sacrifice, civic duty and emergency service and preparedness. If he/she knows these types of things who the *&^%! cares what kind of uniform they wear or whether they salute senior members and call them "sir".

Playing soldier is when you pretend to be a soldier when you are not. Thinking that you are as important as a soldier when you are not. And then pretend that being a CAP member is all about "tradition" that requires "drill" and "ceremony".  To pretend that wearing a uniform is somehow oh so important - even much more important than the useful service that the community and the country really needs. Our country doesn't really need sharp looking honor guards marching about with pretend rifles. Our country needs volunteers who are willing to go out and serve in times of emergency bringing aid and comfort to our fellow countrymen. Don't play soldier. Be a servant to your country instead.

-- Nomex.

P.S. - And consider a career in Podiatry.

[RogueLeader]

Playing soldier. As I have stated, I am not seen by either the Air Force nor by the general public and for that matter not even by CAP itself as a soldier. I am a civilian volunteer in a quasi-military corporation / military auxiliary (whatever the hell that is) and not either a member of the armed forces nor a member of law enforcement. I am not trusted to carry or use a weapon, not trauted to "assist" law enforcement, and not trusted to stand in the place of a member of the armed forces. In fact the job I do is based on skills I have gained as a civilian - the ability to fly an airplane. That skill has nothing whatsoever to do with being a member of the military. My abilities in the areas of good aeronautical decision making and effective control of an airplane are not in the slightest bit enhanced by practicing how to salute, or how to stand at attention or how to parade about like the soldier that I am not.

So when someone tries to tell me that we need to be able to parade about a parking lot and salute the flag and Air Force officers, well, I sort of think that has nothing to do with anything I am here to do. Or that needs to be done by me or anyone else in CAP. I am not impressed by the cadet who can show off his marching skills. I am impressed by the cadet who can show me he understands things like patriotic sacrifice, civic duty and emergency service and prepatredness. If he/she knows these types of things who the *&^%! cares what kind of uniform they wear or whether they salute senior members and call them "sir".
Playing soldier is when you pretend to be a soldier when you are not. And then pretend that being a soldier is all about "tradition" that requires "drill" and "ceremony".  To pretend that wearing a uniform is somehow oh so important - even much more important than the useful service the community and the country really needs. Our country doesn't really need sharp looking honor guards marching about with pretend rifles. Our country needs volunteers who are willing to go out and serve in times of emergency bringing aid and comfort to our fellow countrymen. Don't play soldier. Be a servant to your country instead.

-- Nomex.

And you were doing so well.  If you looked as your history of CAP, as I believe you have, you will notice that we have always had a uniform, excepting the first few months.  As such we have been granted to wear the same looking clothes as the Military Branch that we were under at the time.  First the Army, then the AF.  If you do not like the look of our uniforms, we have the Golf shirt combo.  As it does not have Grade insignia on, you will not be required to Salute or to return them.  You will never be thought of in any circumstance of being remotely military.  You can do all the activities that you desire in a single uniform that will only cost you about $35, well the $7 shipping.  You will never have to worry about receiving awards, rank or accomplishments, because you have no way to denote that.  You get the same shirt as before.

Now for those who happen to like other Uniforms, we get to have Promotions, Awards, etc; to make it extra special we have formations.  Formations are a chance for all those in attendance to be able to recognize the feats they have accomplished.  The Curry Award may not seem like much to you the person, but it is a HUGE step the C/AB.  Besides, it is not about you, the one in formation, it is about those being honored.

We have a rich and wonderful tradition that springs from the Military. C&C and D&C is one way of me saying thank you to the Military for getting the chance to serve my Country, in my capacity.  Just because D&C, C&C do not "pertain" to how we fly a plane; that does NOT mean that they are unimportant, trivial, and outdated piece of nonsense.  They are something more than that.

We all know that being a Soldier is more than D&C plus C&C, I find it absurd for anyone to suggest that that is all a Soldier is.  Are there common threads to CAP and being a soldier?  Yes.  But they are not the same.  We get called on missions at two in the morning.  We can get extra duties, and they can take many hours of our lives.  This has happened for many many years.  There have been times that we had to say no to the mission, thats ok.  We've had to turn down other duties as you have more pressing problems.  BUT WE ARE STILL HERE.  How many times have we worked hard to get the mission done?  How many have gone the extra mile?

I may not have done a lot to earn my place here in CAP, but I'll tell you what.  I work hard to make CAP a BETTER place than when I found it.  I owe it to all those who came before, and those who will come after.

We expect much from our Cadets, and I find it disgusting to think that we as Seniors would demand less of ourselves.

[Nomex Maximus]

. . .
Now for those who happen to like other Uniforms, we get to have Promotions, Awards, etc; to make it extra special we have formations.  Formations are a chance for all those in attendance to be able to recognize the feats they have accomplished.  The Curry Award may not seem like much to you the person, but it is a HUGE step the C/AB.  Besides, it is not about you, the one in formation, it is about those being honored.
. . .

Have you ever considered just shaking the person's hand or patting the person on the back and saying "Good job, dude!" ?

? ? ?

[IceNine]

They're anywhere from 13-16 on average.  Being called up in front of all of their fellow cadets, family members, and the Senior Staff.  Being able to walk up with pride, offer a crisp salute to the commanding officer or higher.  These are the things that will live in these kids minds forever. 

So, NO I won't just pat them on the back and say good job.  And neither should anyone else...

[RogueLeader]

^^ like I said about our Military background, and all about them- not you.  When the Mil does a slap on the back during the ceremony, I'll give it some thought.  BTW this is the point, it appears that you want nothing to deal with the mil in CAP.  Like it or not, IT IS HERE. Deal with it.